Can a Calendar Be Used Prior to the Time of Its Inception?

[daq]

Now I have considered the Leap week for the Enoch calendar, more specific the work presented by John P. Pratt.

However I haven't seen the link in scripture.

As we had touched on briefly before, (I cannot remember where it was now, with all the calendar threads in this board), the three passages in the flood account which mention either the seventeenth of the month or, as in the LXX, the twenty-seventh of the month, all originally contained the same number, (imo because of what I posted there). Thus, in my understanding, all three passages originally contained either the seventeenth of the month or the twenty-seventh of the month.

At this point it doesn't matter all that much which number you take for purposes of your calendar study, (but it matters once you begin to better understand the calendar). Either way, Elohim spoke to Noah seven days prior to Noah and his family entering into the ark. This means that, if you take the number in those passages to be the seventeenth of the month, Elohim spoke to Noah seven days prior in Genesis 7:4. And if you take the three passage statements to be the twenty-seventh of the month then Elohim still spoke to Noah seven days prior in Genesis 7:4. It is therefore absolutely critical to truly understand what Genesis 7:4 says, (and also Genesis 7:10).

In the way in which the Masoretic Hebrew text now reads, it supports a lunisolar calendar, but these three verses which we had discussed elsewhere were a longstanding issue, which it appears the Masoretes tried to resolve. I am not saying it was anything nefarious but simply an attempt to resolve a longstanding issue with the text which brought about much confusion, (which they simply appear to have tried to put an end to: which isn't a bad thing, but I disagree with their resolution to the problematic text).

Do you have more info regarding the leap year calendar?

I have a pretty full understanding of the calendar, which, at least imo, is according to the Torah and the Prophets. I noticed that you already quoted several of my previous posts from page two this thread in a recent response to HP above: please review my posts on page three also. Shalom.

 

[Humble Penny]

As we had touched on briefly before, (I cannot remember where it was now, with all the calendar threads in this board), the three passages in the flood account which mention either the seventeenth of the month or, as in the LXX, the twenty-seventh of the month, all originally contained the same number, (imo because of what I posted there). Thus, in my understanding, all three passages originally contained either the seventeenth of the month or the twenty-seventh of the month.

At this point it doesn't matter all that much which number you take for purposes of your calendar study, (but it matters once you begin to better understand the calendar). Either way, Elohim spoke to Noah seven days prior to Noah and his family entering into the ark. This means that, if you take the number in those passages to be the seventeenth of the month, Elohim spoke to Noah seven days prior in Genesis 7:4. And if you take the three passage statements to be the twenty-seventh of the month then Elohim still spoke to Noah seven days prior in Genesis 7:4. It is therefore absolutely critical to truly understand what Genesis 7:4 says, (and also Genesis 7:10).

In the way in which the Masoretic Hebrew text now reads, it supports a lunisolar calendar, but these three verses which we had discussed elsewhere were a longstanding issue, which it appears the Masoretes tried to resolve. I am not saying it was anything nefarious but simply an attempt to resolve a longstanding issue with the text which brought about much confusion, (which they simply appear to have tried to put an end to: which isn't a bad thing, but I disagree with their resolution to the problematic text).



I have a pretty full understanding of the calendar, which, at least imo, is according to the Torah and the Prophets. I noticed that you already quoted several of my previous posts from page two this thread in a recent response to HP above: please review my posts on page three also. Shalom.

Too bad they didn't exist prior to the date of their creation...

 

[Humble Penny]

@daq @Filippus
Prior to 1582 AD = No Gregorian Calendar
Prior to 700 AD = No Masoretes
Prior to c. 320-385 AD = No Modern Jewish Calendar
Prior to 160 AD = No Seder Olam = No Masoretic Text

What does this leave you with? Only the Septuagint/LXX. This means you need to prove which calendar the Jews were using since it's clear they weren't using any modern day calendars.

Prior to -284 BC = No Septuagint/LXX

This means from 3919 AM/-1551 BC to 5185 AM/-285 BC there was only the original Hebrew Scriptures given to Moses on Mt. Sinai by God. And 3919 AM/-1551 BC is the exact year God told Moses and the Israelites to observe Passover in the 1st Month of Spring/Abib using His calendar. And when was God's Holy Solar Calendar created? On Day 4 of creation. Has it changed since He created it? No, and why? Because God doesn't change like the Sun and the North Star.

 

[daq]

@daq here's some extra credit work to show these numbers aren't being imagined or forced by me, but are plainly told by Scripture:

1,290 Days ÷ 30 Days = 43 Months
1,335 Days ÷ 30 Days = 44.5 Months
2,300 Days ÷ 30 Days = 76.6666666667 Months
OR
3 Years 7 Months
3 Years 8 Months 15 Days
76 Months x 30 Days = 2,280 Days
0.6666666667 x 30 Days = 20 Days

These are the exact numbers you'd expect on a 360 Day Solar Calendar.

Shalom

Ah, so you are also here to teach us all about Sefer Daniel? You will need to be able to explain the sacred calendar day, which is laid out for us in the opening creation account: for the shabuim yamim of Sefer Daniel are evening-morning yamim, (Daniel 8:14, 8:26, 9:24-27, 10:2-3, 10:13). And if you do not understand these things then, imo, neither do you understand the calendar. The twenty-fourth day of hodesh harishon, (Daniel 10:4), is the second day of the week in my understanding of the calendar from the scripture.

 

[Humble Penny]

Ah, so you are also here to teach us all about Sefer Daniel? You will need to be able to explain the sacred calendar day, which is laid out for us in the opening creation account: for the shabuim yamim of Sefer Daniel are evening-morning yamim, (Daniel 8:14, 8:26, 9:24-27, 10:2-3, 10:13). And if you do not understand these things then, imo, neither do you understand the calendar. The twenty-fourth day of hodesh harishon, (Daniel 10:4), is the second day of the week in my understanding of the calendar from the scripture.

Actually if you pay attention to those passages you quoted they take place during the time of the evening sacrifices...it's not stating when the day begins.

As for when the day begins according to the creation account you simply work backwards from the 7th Day to the 1st Day:

7th Day
2. Evening
1. Morning

6th Day
2. Evening
1. Morning

5th Day
2. Evening
1. Morning

4th Day
2. Evening
1. Morning

3rd Day
2. Evening
1. Morning

2nd Day
2. Evening
1. Morning

1st Day
2. Evening
1. Morning

By this we know the truth that God only associates Morning and Evening = Day = Light while Darkness = Night. The day begins in the morning because God called the Light; and Light is Greater than Darkness because God is Light and in Him there is no Darkness at all: therefore the Day comes before the Night; in like manner because the Sun is greater than the Moon and rules the day we know again that the Day begins before the the Night, and it begins in the morning with sunrise.

Pretty easy and simple stuff really. As you can see from the breakdown of the week of creation the formula, "And there was evening and there was morning X Day" simply means the evening was the end of the present day while the morning was talking about the start of the next day.

@daq keep pondering Proverbs 13:16 before you speak up and keep making a fool of yourself...

 

[Humble Penny]

Ah, so you are also here to teach us all about Sefer Daniel? You will need to be able to explain the sacred calendar day, which is laid out for us in the opening creation account: for the shabuim yamim of Sefer Daniel are evening-morning yamim, (Daniel 8:14, 8:26, 9:24-27, 10:2-3, 10:13). And if you do not understand these things then, imo, neither do you understand the calendar. The twenty-fourth day of hodesh harishon, (Daniel 10:4), is the second day of the week in my understanding of the calendar from the scripture.

Actually if you pay attention to those passages you quoted they take place during the time of the evening sacrifices...it's not stating when the day begins.

As for when the day begins according to the creation account you simply work backwards from the 7th Day to the 1st Day:

7th Day
2. Evening
1. Morning

6th Day
2. Evening
1. Morning

5th Day
2. Evening
1. Morning

4th Day
2. Evening
1. Morning

3rd Day
2. Evening
1. Morning

2nd Day
2. Evening
1. Morning

1st Day
2. Evening
1. Morning

By this we know the truth that God only associates Morning and Evening = Day = Light while Darkness = Night. The day begins in the morning because God called the Light; and Light is Greater than Darkness because God is Light and in Him there is no Darkness at all: therefore the Day comes before the Night; in like manner because the Sun is greater than the Moon and rules the day we know again that the Day begins before the the Night, and it begins in the morning with sunrise.

Pretty easy and simple stuff really. As you can see from the breakdown of the week of creation the formula, "And there was evening and there was morning X Day" simply means the evening was the end of the present day while the morning was talking about the start of the next day.

@daq keep pondering Proverbs 13:16 before you speak up and keep making a fool of yourself...

Here's another thing to ponder on before you destroy yourself:

Genesis 1:9-13 shows the year to begin in the spring and not the fall or any of the other 4 Seasons because God commands the earth to bring forth new plant Life and living organisms: and the only season this happens in is the spring. So this also destroys the false idea that the new year begins in the fall and the day begins in the evening.

 

[daq]

Here's another thing to ponder on before you destroy yourself:

Genesis 1:9-13 shows the year to begin in the spring and not the fall or any of the other 4 Seasons because God commands the earth to bring forth new plant Life and living organisms: and the only season this happens in a tire is the spring. So this also destroys the glass idea that the new year begins in the fall and the day begins in the evening.

You sure will go to great lengths to try to pin people against the wall with your strawman arguments. You never understood that argument and still don't. It was not an argument against the sacred calendar year beginning with Abib. I actually believe the Torah. Why therefore would I believe the sacred calendar year begins in the fall? The argument was against your unfounded reasons for beginning the year on the fourth day of the week. You say you abide in the word of God but this idea you got from Qumran fragments and texts, not from the Torah, and yet, when I quoted from another text, (1Enoch), which you use to support your belief in a year of only 364 days with no leap year, you claim I am not abiding in the word of God.

Go ahead and keep calling me a fool: it doesn't make your accusation true just because you say so, but it does show that you continually say things based on your own word and expect everyone else to believe what you say, just because you say so. In terms of the calendar that immediately disqualifies your calendar because everyone can see that it is nothing more than you bearing witness of yourself and your own imaginary ideas which are not found in the scripture.

 

[Humble Penny]

Actually if you pay attention to those passages you quoted they take place during the time of the evening sacrifices...it's not stating when the day begins.

As for when the day begins according to the creation account you simply work backwards from the 7th Day to the 1st Day:

7th Day
2. Evening
1. Morning

6th Day
2. Evening
1. Morning

5th Day
2. Evening
1. Morning

4th Day
2. Evening
1. Morning

3rd Day
2. Evening
1. Morning

2nd Day
2. Evening
1. Morning

1st Day
2. Evening
1. Morning

By this we know the truth that God only associates Morning and Evening = Day = Light while Darkness = Night. The day begins in the morning because God called the Light; and Light is Greater than Darkness because God is Light and in Him there is no Darkness at all: therefore the Day comes before the Night; in like manner because the Sun is greater than the Moon and rules the day we know again that the Day begins before the the Night, and it begins in the morning with sunrise.

Pretty easy and simple stuff really. As you can see from the breakdown of the week of creation the formula, "And there was evening and there was morning X Day" simply means the evening was the end of the present day while the morning was talking about the start of the next day.

@daq keep pondering Proverbs 13:16 before you speak up and keep making a fool of yourself...

Here's another thing to ponder on before you destroy yourself:

Genesis 1:9-13 shows the year to begin in the spring and not the fall or any of the other 4 Seasons because God commands the earth to bring forth new plant Life and living organisms: and the only season this happens in is the spring. So this also destroys the false idea that the new year begins in the fall and the day begins in the evening.

Here are some basic concepts to further ponder on:

Truth is...
Life = Light = Day = Morning = Spring = Sun = Wisdom

Falsehood is...
Death = Dark = Night = Evening = Winter = Moon = Folly

So to believe the day begins in the evening shows a person's mind doesn't follow the natural order of things. For these show the rise and fall of man throughout history and the natural cycle of life and death.

Shalom

 

[Humble Penny]

You sure will go to great lengths to try to pin people against the wall with your strawman arguments. You never understood that argument and still don't. It was not an argument against the sacred calendar year beginning with Abib. I actually believe the Torah. Why therefore would I believe the sacred calendar year begins in the fall? The argument was against your unfounded reasons for beginning the year on the fourth day of the week. You say you abide in the word of God but this idea you got from Qumran fragments and texts, not from the Torah, and yet, when I quoted from another text, (1Enoch), which you use to support your belief in a year of only 364 days with no leap year, you claim I am not abiding in the word of God.

Go ahead and keep calling me a fool: it doesn't make your accusation true just because you say so, but it does show that you continually say things based on your own word and expect everyone else to believe what you say, just because you say so. In terms of the calendar that immediately disqualifies your calendar because everyone can see that it is nothing more than you bearing witness of yourself and your own imaginary ideas which are not found in the scripture.

It's pretty basic daq...

No Luminaries = No Calendar

From here you just need to ask when God created the luminaries and then you have the start of your calendar year. It's of little consequence how you feel about me or my work personally, I'm going to keep fending off falsehood wherever it tries to come...that's on you if you want to cling to it.

Maybe if you got out of your feelings you'd see more clearly by standing beside yourself.

 

[daq]

Actually if you pay attention to those passages you quoted they take place during the time of the evening sacrifices...it's not stating when the day begins.

As for when the day begins according to the creation account you simply work backwards from the 7th Day to the 1st Day:

7th Day
2. Evening
1. Morning

6th Day
2. Evening
1. Morning

5th Day
2. Evening
1. Morning

4th Day
2. Evening
1. Morning

3rd Day
2. Evening
1. Morning

2nd Day
2. Evening
1. Morning

1st Day
2. Evening
1. Morning

By this we know the truth that God only associates Morning and Evening = Day = Light while Darkness = Night. The day begins in the morning because God called the Light; and Light is Greater than Darkness because God is Light and in Him there is no Darkness at all: therefore the Day comes before the Night; in like manner because the Sun is greater than the Moon and rules the day we know again that the Day begins before the the Night, and it begins in the morning with sunrise.

Pretty easy and simple stuff really. As you can see from the breakdown of the week of creation the formula, "And there was evening and there was morning X Day" simply means the evening was the end of the present day while the morning was talking about the start of the next day.

@daq keep pondering Proverbs 13:16 before you speak up and keep making a fool of yourself...

I see that once again you have no clue what I spoke about. I said the sacred calendar day: not a week of full days.

 

[Humble Penny]

I see that once again you have no clue what I spoke about. I said the sacred calendar day: not a week of full days.

Their only connection is to the Great Tribulation nothing else. Otherwise I addressed what you were hinting at for the start of a day when you said: "[...]for the shabuim yamim of Sefer Daniel are evening-morning yamim[...]". Otherwise posts #111 & #112 show the numbers in Scripture support a 360 Day Solar Calendar with 4 Seasonal/Intercalary Days. I get you don't believe this even with the truth in front of you so you don't have to keep replying, and can create your own thread to satisfy your itching ears.

 

[daq]

Now I have considered the Leap week for the Enoch calendar, more specific the work presented by John P. Pratt.

However I haven't seen the link in scripture.

I will consider your proposal and test it.

By the way, the Book of the Luminaries was not part of Sefer Henok at Qumran: the fragments which were discovered were always part of a separate work as it was a scroll of its own. The portion which I recently quoted in this thread, (1Enoch 72:1), is possibly the only actual portion left from the original work if it was even ever supposed to be part of Sefer Henok at all, which I don't believe it ever was until it ended up combined in the Ethiopic 1Enoch texts.

The author of the Book of the Luminaries is not the same author as Henok and even openly contradicts Henok and the writings we now have in the modern most accepted canons of scripture. Henok teaches that Miykael is the leader and head of the holy Malakim, and this is supported by Daniel 8:11, 8:25, 12:1, and Jude 1:9 where Miykael is called "the Archangel". There is only one Archangel, the head or chief over the other Messenger-Angels, and that is Miykael the Archangel according to the scripture, not Uriel. However the author of Luminaries says Uriel is the chief, head, or leader, and even calls him Uriel the Archangel, (1Enoch 79:6). It's a pretty blatant contradiction and probably a telltale sign as to at least one of the reasons why it was never included in Sefer Henok to begin with, (at least not at Damascus a.k.a. Qumran).

 

[Humble Penny]

I see that once again you have no clue what I spoke about. I said the sacred calendar day: not a week of full days.

Yet you also stated in the same breath in post #124:

"[...]for the shabuim yamim of Sefer Daniel are evening-morning yamim[...]".

So clearly you were also making a reference to the seven day week.

Ah, so you are also here to teach us all about Sefer Daniel? You will need to be able to explain the sacred calendar day, which is laid out for us in the opening creation account: for the shabuim yamim of Sefer Daniel are evening-morning yamim, (Daniel 8:14, 8:26, 9:24-27, 10:2-3, 10:13). And if you do not understand these things then, imo, neither do you understand the calendar. The twenty-fourth day of hodesh harishon, (Daniel 10:4), is the second day of the week in my understanding of the calendar from the scripture.

Right so Daniel 8 is pretty clear on these points:

• The vision took place in the 3rd Year of Belshazzar.
• The Ram with Two Horns represents the Medo-Persian Kingdom.
• The Goat with One Horn represents the Greek Kingdom
• The angel makes it clear that there are 2,300 Evening and Morning (i.e. Days) sacrifices. And these will occur far in the future.

The law for the evening and morning sacrifices are covered in Numbers 28. As to the 3 Weeks of Morning for Daniel and the 21 Days that the prince of Persia opposed the angel: they are all connected and took place 3 Weeks prior to the 24th Day of the 1st Month:

3rd Year of Belshazzar (Daniel 8)
1st Month
01 02 03 04 05 06 07
_________01 02 03 04 (Daniel begins mourning)
05 06 07 08 09 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (Daniel ends mourning)
26 27 28 29 30______

There's no mystery behind the mourning period of Daniel, it's just 3 Weeks x 7 Days = 21 Days.

As Daniel 9 the rest of the detsils are given in Daniel 11, and Daniel 12: because all three chapters happen in the 1st Year of Darius the Mede. Otherwise the angel tells Daniel when the Temple and Jerusalem will be destroyed, when Yeshua the Messiah will die, and when the Anti-Christ will come to setup the Abomination of Desolation.

Finally for Daniel 10 to prove there's no connection between the 3 Weeks of Daniel's mourning we just need to add up the years of the reigns of the kings:

3rd Year of Belshazzar to 3rd Year of Cyrus
4 Years (Belshazzar)
17 Years (Darius the Mede)
3 Years (Cyrus)
24 Years (Belshazzar to Cyrus)

And to prove this with a second witness we only need to follow the instructions on when to count the 69 Weeks to Messiah as beginning with Cyrus. Therefore these 3 Weeks of Daniel mourning and fasting have nothing to do with the 70 Weeks.

 

[Humble Penny]

By the way, the Book of the Luminaries was not part of Sefer Henok at Qumran: the fragments which were discovered were always part of a separate work as it was a scroll of its own. The portion which I recently quoted in this thread, (1Enoch 72:1), is possibly the only actual portion left from the original work if it was even ever supposed to be part of Sefer Henok at all, which I don't believe it ever was until it ended up combined in the Ethiopic 1Enoch texts.

The author of the Book of the Luminaries is not the same author as Henok and even openly contradicts Henok and the writings we now have in the modern most accepted canons of scripture. Henok teaches that Miykael is the leader and head of the holy Malakim, and this is supported by Daniel 8:11, 8:25, 12:1, and Jude 1:9 where Miykael is called "the Archangel". There is only one Archangel, the head or chief over the other Messenger-Angels, and that is Miykael the Archangel according to the scripture, not Uriel. However the author of Luminaries says Uriel is the chief, head, or leader, and even calls him Uriel the Archangel, (1Enoch 79:6). It's a pretty blatant contradiction and probably a telltale sign as to at least one of the reasons why it was never included in Sefer Henok to begin with, (at least not at Damascus a.k.a. Qumran).

Here you go again not paying attention:

It's clear that Uriel is not being called the leader of the angels but the leader of the luminaries which help to reckon the years. But what's to be expected from your dishonesty and seeing only what you want to see?

 

[Humble Penny]

3 Key Lessons I've Learned when presenting the Truth to people plainly and what to conclude about them when they deny it:

1. Either they're stupid.
2. Led astray and thus ignorant.
3. Or they're dishonest.
4. Or they simply are being willfully ignorant.

 

[daq]

Here you go again not paying attention:
View attachment 312666

View attachment 312670

It's clear that Uriel is not being called the leader of the angels but the leader of the luminaries which help to reckon the years. But what's to be expected from your dishonesty and seeing only what you want to see?

Enoch LXXIV (R.H. Charles)
1 And I saw another course, a law for her, (and) how according to that law she performs her monthly revolution.
2 And all these Uriel, the holy angel who is the leader of them all, showed to me, and their positions, and I wrote down their positions as he showed them to me, and I wrote down their months as they were, and the appearance of their lights till fifteen days were accomplished.
The Book of Enoch: The Book of the Courses of the Heavenly Luminaries: Chapter LXXIV

Enoch LXXV (R.H. Charles)
3 For the signs and the times and the years and the days the angel Uriel showed to me, whom the Lord of glory hath set for ever over all the luminaries of the heaven, in the heaven and in the world, that they should rule on the face of the heaven and be seen on the earth, and be leaders for the day and the night, i.e. the sun, moon, and stars, and all the ministering creatures which make their revolution in all the chariots of the heaven.
The Book of Enoch: The Book of the Courses of the Heavenly Luminaries: Chapter LXXV

Enoch LXXXII (R.H. Charles)
7 And the account thereof is accurate and the recorded reckoning thereof exact; for the luminaries, and months and festivals, and years and days, has Uriel shown and revealed to me, to whom the Lord of the whole creation of the world hath subjected the host of heaven.
8 And he has power over night and day in the heaven to cause the light to give light to men--sun, moon, and stars, and all the powers of the heaven which revolve in their circular chariots.
The Book of Enoch: The Book of the Courses of the Heavenly Luminaries: Chapter LXXXII

Enoch LXXIX (R.H. Charles)
6 Such is the picture and sketch of every luminary which Uriel the archangel, who is their leader, showed unto me.
The Book of Enoch: The Book of the Courses of the Heavenly Luminaries: Chapter LXXIX

Miykael is Sar Tzaba, the Prince, Captain, or Head of the Host, and this is the Sar-Captain of the Tzaba-Host in Joshua 5:13-15, and therefore, because of the similar statements in that context, he is the same who appears to Mosheh at the burning bush. And in Daniel 8:11 he is again called the same, Sar Tzaba, and in Daniel 8:25 he is called Sar sariym, Prince of princes. And in Daniel 12:1 he is called haSar haGadol, the Great Prince who stands over the sons of the people of Daniel.

Daniel 8:10-11 KJV
10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, [Sar Tzaba] and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

That's talking about the host of the heavens and the stars, the same subject matter in Luminaries wherein the author claims that Uriel is the Sar Tzaba or Chief-Head-Prince of the Host.

And this is the interpretation:

Daniel 8:25 KJV
25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; [Sar sariym] but he shall be broken without hand.

The author of your calendar source is refuted by Mosheh, the Torah, Yhoshua, and the Prophets.

 

[Humble Penny]

Enoch LXXIV (R.H. Charles)
1 And I saw another course, a law for her, (and) how according to that law she performs her monthly revolution.
2 And all these Uriel, the holy angel who is the leader of them all, showed to me, and their positions, and I wrote down their positions as he showed them to me, and I wrote down their months as they were, and the appearance of their lights till fifteen days were accomplished.
The Book of Enoch: The Book of the Courses of the Heavenly Luminaries: Chapter LXXIV

Enoch LXXV (R.H. Charles)
3 For the signs and the times and the years and the days the angel Uriel showed to me, whom the Lord of glory hath set for ever over all the luminaries of the heaven, in the heaven and in the world, that they should rule on the face of the heaven and be seen on the earth, and be leaders for the day and the night, i.e. the sun, moon, and stars, and all the ministering creatures which make their revolution in all the chariots of the heaven.
The Book of Enoch: The Book of the Courses of the Heavenly Luminaries: Chapter LXXV

Enoch LXXXII (R.H. Charles)
7 And the account thereof is accurate and the recorded reckoning thereof exact; for the luminaries, and months and festivals, and years and days, has Uriel shown and revealed to me, to whom the Lord of the whole creation of the world hath subjected the host of heaven.
8 And he has power over night and day in the heaven to cause the light to give light to men--sun, moon, and stars, and all the powers of the heaven which revolve in their circular chariots.
The Book of Enoch: The Book of the Courses of the Heavenly Luminaries: Chapter LXXXII

Enoch LXXIX (R.H. Charles)
6 Such is the picture and sketch of every luminary which Uriel the archangel, who is their leader, showed unto me.
The Book of Enoch: The Book of the Courses of the Heavenly Luminaries: Chapter LXXIX

Miykael is Sar Tzaba, the Prince, Captain, or Head of the Host, and this is the Sar-Captain of the Tzaba-Host in Joshua 5:13-15, and therefore, because of the similar statements in that context, he is the same who appears to Mosheh at the burning bush. And in Daniel 8:11 he is again called the same, Sar Tzaba, and in Daniel 8:25 he is called Sar sariym, Prince of princes. And in Daniel 12:1 he is called haSar haGadol, the Great Prince who stands over the sons of the people of Daniel.

Daniel 8:10-11 KJV
10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, [Sar Tzaba] and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

That's talking about the host of the heavens and the stars, the same subject matter in Luminaries wherein the author claims that Uriel is the Sar Tzaba or Chief-Head-Prince of the Host.

And this is the interpretation:

Daniel 8:25 KJV
25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; [Sar sariym] but he shall be broken without hand.

The author of your calendar source is refuted by Mosheh, the Torah, Yhoshua, and the Prophets.

It's clear you can't tell the difference between literal and figurative language.

 

[daq]

It's clear you can't tell the difference between literal and figurative language.

I didn't make a statement as to whether I believe both are literal or whether both are figurative: but I know that you need to make one literal and one figurative so that you can say they are not the same, and of course, so that your dogma king doesn't fall from your heavens.

 

[Humble Penny]

Enoch LXXIV (R.H. Charles)
1 And I saw another course, a law for her, (and) how according to that law she performs her monthly revolution.
2 And all these Uriel, the holy angel who is the leader of them all, showed to me, and their positions, and I wrote down their positions as he showed them to me, and I wrote down their months as they were, and the appearance of their lights till fifteen days were accomplished.
The Book of Enoch: The Book of the Courses of the Heavenly Luminaries: Chapter LXXIV

Enoch LXXV (R.H. Charles)
3 For the signs and the times and the years and the days the angel Uriel showed to me, whom the Lord of glory hath set for ever over all the luminaries of the heaven, in the heaven and in the world, that they should rule on the face of the heaven and be seen on the earth, and be leaders for the day and the night, i.e. the sun, moon, and stars, and all the ministering creatures which make their revolution in all the chariots of the heaven.
The Book of Enoch: The Book of the Courses of the Heavenly Luminaries: Chapter LXXV

Enoch LXXXII (R.H. Charles)
7 And the account thereof is accurate and the recorded reckoning thereof exact; for the luminaries, and months and festivals, and years and days, has Uriel shown and revealed to me, to whom the Lord of the whole creation of the world hath subjected the host of heaven.
8 And he has power over night and day in the heaven to cause the light to give light to men--sun, moon, and stars, and all the powers of the heaven which revolve in their circular chariots.
The Book of Enoch: The Book of the Courses of the Heavenly Luminaries: Chapter LXXXII

Enoch LXXIX (R.H. Charles)
6 Such is the picture and sketch of every luminary which Uriel the archangel, who is their leader, showed unto me.
The Book of Enoch: The Book of the Courses of the Heavenly Luminaries: Chapter LXXIX

Miykael is Sar Tzaba, the Prince, Captain, or Head of the Host, and this is the Sar-Captain of the Tzaba-Host in Joshua 5:13-15, and therefore, because of the similar statements in that context, he is the same who appears to Mosheh at the burning bush. And in Daniel 8:11 he is again called the same, Sar Tzaba, and in Daniel 8:25 he is called Sar sariym, Prince of princes. And in Daniel 12:1 he is called haSar haGadol, the Great Prince who stands over the sons of the people of Daniel.

Daniel 8:10-11 KJV
10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, [Sar Tzaba] and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

That's talking about the host of the heavens and the stars, the same subject matter in Luminaries wherein the author claims that Uriel is the Sar Tzaba or Chief-Head-Prince of the Host.

And this is the interpretation:

Daniel 8:25 KJV
25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; [Sar sariym] but he shall be broken without hand.

The author of your calendar source is refuted by Mosheh, the Torah, Yhoshua, and the Prophets.

I didn't make a statement as to whether I believe both are literal or whether both are figurative: but I know that you need to make one literal and one figurative so that you can say they are not the same, and of course, so that your dogma king doesn't fall from your heavens.

I've got to hand it to you daq, I've never run into someone so proud of advertising their ignorance to the world. When you look up the word host as it relates to the passages you quoted it was an old term or way of saying "army", which is why YHWH is called the Lord of Armies.

Genesis 1:14-19 is our foundational proof text that the Sun, Moon and stars all appointed for signs, seasons, days, and years. The angels just happen to be set as leaders over certain stars and have Uriel as the head over all of the luminaries and their leaders, but for whatever reason you confuse Uriel's position as Prince of the Luminaries with Michael being the Prince of Armies. Guess I shouldn't be suprised because you equate the "stars" mentioned in Daniel 8 with "angels" and therefore falsely believe that Enoch must be in contradtiction with Scripture...and simply because you fail to discern the differences between Uriel and Michael's positions.

 

[Humble Penny]

@daq if you need help understanding the different senses of the word host then view this link for it's etymology:

host | Etymology, origin and meaning of host by etymonline