Calvinist Robots

[chestertonrules]

IF you keep dodging the statement from the RCC how do you expect to answer accurately???

Does the RCC NOT teach that a person IGNORANT of the church and the Gospel CAN be saved by following the dictates of their individual conscious?

This is a yes or no quiz. Not an opportunity for you to re-spin the observation into a totally different question.

We are not talking about those who have HEARD and therefore have to DECIDE (in Chesters world)

They may or may not. The Church does not make a judgment, nor should they.

Give it up.

You understand my position, just don't lie about it any more.

 

[squint]

They may or may not. The Church does not make a judgment, nor should they.

THANK YOU!

So 'theoretically' THEN one does NOT have to make a 'choice' for Jesus to MAY be saved. They MAY be saved ONLY by following the dictates of their individual conscious.

Give it up.

I am merely pointing out that what YOU are presenting on behalf of the RCC is not 'necessarily' spot on accurate.

You understand my position, just don't lie about it any more.

PLEASE tell me how I lied, thank you!

The RCC DOES teach that one MAY be saved by following the dictates of their individual conscious outside of the church and outside of the Gospel.

They DON'T have to make an affirmative decision about Jesus Christ. They DON'T have to belong to the RCC.

And they CAN potentially be saved by following the dictates of their own individual conscious. This IS what the RCC teaches, even if you don't know it or 'get it' GET IT?

 

[jckstraw72]

The difference of importance is that God chooses, not man.

on what basis, other than random choosing, does He choose?

 

[JacobHall86]

on what basis, other than random choosing, does He choose?

His own personal desire and will.

 

[jckstraw72]

His own personal desire and will.

yeah i got that. is His will random or is there an actual reason that one person gets damned and one gets saved?

 

[JacobHall86]

yeah i got that.

I don't think that you do. You work under the assumption that for it to be his will, you have to be able to understand it. Thats not how it works, no matter how man centered your view of salvation is.

is His will random or is there an actual reason that one person gets damned and one gets saved?

Nothing God does is arbitrary. There is a reason. I don't know that reason because I am not God, nor do I pretend to be or pretend to speak in his stead.

 

[jckstraw72]

Nothing God does is arbitrary. There is a reason. I don't know that reason because I am not God, nor do I pretend to be or pretend to speak in his stead.

well although this sounds nice, it also sounds like a cop-out because since we're all sinners and totally depraved, there's no difference btwn the condemned and the saved other than that God just happened to land on them in eeny meeny miney moe.

 

[JacobHall86]

well although this sounds nice, it also sounds like a cop-out because since we're all sinners and totally depraved, there's no difference btwn the condemned and the saved other than that God just happened to land on them in eeny meeny miney moe.

How is it a cop-out? Because we refuse to think that God grants salvation based on the merits of a person?

 

[PETE_]

there's no difference btwn the condemned and the saved other than... God

There is the point right there. Only God is the difference and He alone gets the Glory

 

[JacobHall86]

There is the point right there. Only God is the difference and He alone gets the Glory

The pelagians will not like that...

 

[squint]

The pelagians will not like that...

So, let me get this straight.

God made HUMAN robots for the sole purpose of burning them alive forever in conscious torment and this somehow is supposed to bring Him Glory...

and that God is also going to do that same thing to His Own children?

Right? Pete? Jacob? Rick? Albion? anyone?

 

[PETE_]

You still do not have it straight

GOD DID NOT MAKE ROBOTS

 

[MamaZ]

I am still waiting to find out where it is read that grace enables a person to be saved instead of saving a person.

 

[MamaZ]

Human robots?

 

[squint]

You still do not have it straight

GOD DID NOT MAKE ROBOTS

Well, there are certainly some similarities, right? They were made like a robot, unable to do anything or able of experiencing anything of lasting consequence other than be tortured alive in fire. Basically discarded by their Owner when finished save for the caveat of burning them alive forever just for kicks and because He can? You know, peek in the door and watch them squirming and squiggling for a few thousand years?

 

[PETE_]

Man is has self-conscienceness,a sense of morality, intellect, emotion, and will. Robots do not

 

[JacobHall86]

So, let me get this straight.

God made HUMAN robots for the sole purpose of burning them alive forever in conscious torment and this somehow is supposed to bring Him Glory...

and that God is also going to do that same thing to His Own children?

Right? Pete? Jacob? Rick? Albion? anyone?

Romans 9 states that we are not to question if he makes one vessel for wrath and one for glory.

Either he did infact create some for hell, or everyone is saved.

One is Christian, one is universalism.

 

[Uphill Battle]

How is it a cop-out? Because we refuse to think that God grants salvation based on the merits of a person?

Not believing in predestination has nothing to do with merited salvation.

 

[squint]

Romans 9 states that we are not to question if he makes one vessel for wrath and one for glory.

I don't doubt that one bit. I do however believe there are far better understandings than Gods making my unsaved neighbors vessels of dishonor AND commanding me to LOVE same. I don't believe God is a hypocrite. Do you?

Either he did infact create some for hell, or everyone is saved.

Sorry Jacob, but that is known as a false dilemma meaning that there are other alternative and legimate answers to these things.

I believe for example that all of mankind shall be saved by The Saviour of the world, and that all devils are the vessels of dishonor. It doesn't take a genius to see that devils and makind are [together in some fashion] in the N.T. I mean really, that fact is on just about every page. They are the logical other vessel. And guess what? There are numerous scriptures that point that direction outright as a condition of all mankind, even believers.

One is Christian, one is universalism.

Christian Universalism was around long before Mr. Calvin my friend, and no, your imaginations of what that consists of is probably very wrong.. One can believe for the salvation of all mankind and STILL adhere to every single eternal torment scripture.

God is NOT going to burn His Own children/offspring alive in eternal conscious torment. There is not one single scripture that states such a position NOR is there a single named individual stated to be going to have that fate or even threatened with same.

So what you take for granted doesn't even exist in scripture. There will be a Lake of Fire. It will have eternal occupants. Those occupants ARE NOT going to be our fellow unsaved mankind whom God has commanded us as believers to LOVE no matter how much the DEVILS in mankind scream out for such things.

enjoy!

squint

 

[squint]

Man is has self-conscienceness,a sense of morality, intellect, emotion, and will. Robots do not

I SAID of 'lasting consequence.'

Apparently God equipped mankind with these qualities so they could really experience the suffering of burning on a multifold scale of measures eh? I mean that IS the only purpose for being so equipped right other than a little temporal meaninglessness while here on earth. Superflous I believe is one of the terms Calvinists/Reformeds use to describe this activity. Maybe just incidental. They incidently did good but SO WHAT? Burn them anyway?