Calvinist Robots

[A New Dawn]

Do you believe that willful disobedience has no impact on our salvation?

Do you see anyone suggesting that one should willfully disobey? Why don't you speak to what has been said rather than make something up and respond to that?

 

[A New Dawn]

I cannot say or justify that loving them means calling them totally depraved or sentencing them to automatically fry alive forever without requite is scriptural, right or equals anything similar to LOVING them. K? And I consider that anyone who does so is a slave of darkness who needs a little light. Nothing personal.

Depraved is a condition of the soul, not a name that Calvinists call people. It would be nice if people actually spoke to what we believe rather than create strawmen and speak to those.

 

[MamaZ]

Unless on understands that all born are locked into sin one will not be able to understand predestination as the scriptures teach us.

 

[MamaZ]

I thought I was pretty clear about asking you not to guess. NO, I am not a 'unitarian universalist.'

I accept every eternal torment/wrath scripture. Maybe not like you do however. If you want to know what I believe, just ASK first. It's a lot easier. I also adhere to the Nicene Creed.



I don't know or care what the unitarian universalists believe. I know they are not christians in the N.Creed sense of the word.



Nope. Next guess?



The Lake of Fire is being prepared if not done already and it will have tormented occupants forever and ever

. And who would these occupants be? The devil and His demons? People who do not have Christ?



I certainly believe God saves people POST death, and also PRE-death.
After death comes the Judgment..


Nope. And I don't understand the desire to put me in some other peoples theological cans. The field is vastly more interesting and vastly more (superior) positions are available. And the field of good minds continues to grow even within the groups you mention.



And no again. I don't believe in 'freewill.' I already told you several posts ago I'm more 'determinist' than Calvinism.



Great. Thanks for asking.

I believe all vessels of honor will be saved and will go to heaven and receive MERCY.

I believe all vessels of DIShonor already have wrath abiding upon them and they are all eventually going to the Lake of Fire.

And I believe that in every single individual lump of mankind/me that both vessels exist and are predestined on that basis.

How's that?

Too many scriptures to substantiate to cite. Take a small bite and see if you can digest logically.

enjoy!

squint

Here we are back to the logics of man when Gods thoughts are so much higher than ours and So are His ways.

 

[MamaZ]

Do you believe that willful disobedience has no impact on our salvation?

Do you believe that salvation can be revoked when it is a gift from God and not of works?

 

[&Abel]

Unless on understands that all born are locked into sin one will not be able to understand predestination as the scriptures teach us.

I don't think you understand it

 

[&Abel]

Do you believe that salvation can be revoked when it is a gift from God and not of works?

you haven't yet received salvation now have you?

 

[&Abel]

If it was future it would read will conform will justify and will glorify. It does not read that way. It reads as already done.

no you don't understand

god KNOWS what will happen so he can say it has happened, its emphasis on his ultimate knowledge of the outcome

hes saying "whom he called"...now I'm sure there are members of christ's body that have not yet been born and yet god is saying hes already called them

you see that this is speaking from the perspective of declaring the end from the beginning

Romans 8

29For those whom He (BI)foreknew, He also (BJ)predestined to become (BK)conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the (BL)firstborn among many brethren;
30and these whom He (BM)predestined, He also (BN)called; and these whom He called, He also (BO)justified; and these whom He justified, He also (BP)glorified.

 

[squint]

Here we are back to the logics of man when Gods thoughts are so much higher than ours and So are His ways.

If you have specific critique please feel free to 'share.' Also please spare me the MIS-characterizations without same as they are senseless and baseless.

 

[squint]

Since I do not believe that one's soteriological viewpoint is a sign of salvation, I would suspect that there will be more than a couple of Calvinists who, while they express belief in the doctrines of grace, are not covered by the blood of Christ.

And there are a number of reasons 'why' your reasoning is not accurate, nor is it benefical to your fellow man.

One of those reasons I laid out to you just a couple posts ago. In each 'lump' called ME there are TWO VESSELS. One to honor and mercy and one to dishonor and wrath.

You on the other hand look at a person and only see ONE vessel, which is a simplistic and innaccurate view.

I really don't see how that would affect anyone's soteriological position. But then as you have suggested, I can't read your mind. Unfortunately I can't understand your posts either.

Then I'd suggest you spend some time in reading and making reasoned responses with specifics if you want to apply critique.

 

[squint]

Depraved is a condition of the soul, not a name that Calvinists call people.

By all means tell me how the condition of the soul is not the same as the person.

It would be nice if people actually spoke to what we believe rather than create strawmen and speak to those.

You call people totally depraved one way or another so don't try and deny it.

 

[Johnny Dalmas]

One of those reasons I laid out to you just a couple posts ago. In each 'lump' called ME there are TWO VESSELS. One to honor and mercy and one to dishonor and wrath.

You on the other hand look at a person and only see ONE vessel, which is a simplistic and innaccurate view.

Not to try to be critical, but that sounds a bit spiritually schizophrenic to me. But I guess that's just ME.

No it isn't! It's me!

Then I'd suggest you spend some time in reading and making reasoned responses with specifics if you want to apply critique.

Actually I'm just trying to figure out your rather interesting theological positions. Perhaps you could point me to some theological work wherein the soteriological positions you have taken here are spelled out.

Do you have any works or internet articles or anything else where this "Two Vessels in Each Person" theory is propounded... I mean, besides yourself?

Finally, I have a question. If there are two vessels inside each person, does God destroy the dishonorable vessel in the judgment and then everyone's honorable vessel is then admitted into heaven?

Is that the way this thing works?

Dalmas

 

[A New Dawn]

By all means tell me how the condition of the soul is not the same as the person.

It was all one thought. Breaking it up like this makes no sense.

You call people totally depraved one way or another so don't try and deny it.

I don't call anyone anything. What I do is acknowledge what God has said about the nature of man since the fall. The nature of all men, until God, himself, decides to change it.

 

[squint]

It was all one thought. Breaking it up like this makes no sense.
I don't call anyone anything.

Oh, yeah, right. You don't but you say GOD DOES. Funny how so many others don't see it though eh?

What I do is acknowledge what God has said about the nature of man since the fall.

What you don't acknowledge is the involvement of the DEVIL. You only lay judgment upon mankind and you completely ignore the other parties. Why is that? Does that make sense?

The nature of all men, until God, himself, decides to change it.

I certainly don't see believers being made sinless if that is what you are suggesting. And I don't see wheat made into tares or children of the devil being made into children of God or bad trees made into good trees.

 

[squint]

Not to try to be critical, but that sounds a bit spiritually schizophrenic to me. But I guess that's just ME.

Oh? How's that exactly? You mean when John the Apostle says 'He who commits sin is OF THE DEVIL' that you don't want to SEE the OTHER PARTY and just BLAME THE MAN? Does that make some kind of sense to you?

No it isn't! It's me!

Paul described the sin indwelling his flesh as NO LONGER I. You however are certainly welcome to say it's just you. And I will not believe you.

Actually I'm just trying to figure out your rather interesting theological positions.

Oh, it's pretty easy. I don't call Gods children totally depraved for ONE thing. You do realize that when you DO THAT you also make God The Father of the TOTALLY DEPRAVED? Adam was Gods son. (Luke 3:38) All of Israel were taught to be GODS CHILDREN (Deut. 14:1/Psalm 82:6) In Calvins world that makes GOD The Father of the TOTALLY DEPRAVED. (Pete the reformed guy already conceded to this point btw.)

Perhaps you could point me to some theological work wherein the soteriological positions you have taken here are spelled out.

Uh, try Romans 7:17-21 & 25, 1 John 1:8, 3:6-9 and get back to me.

Do you have any works or internet articles or anything else where this "Two Vessels in Each Person" theory is propounded... I mean, besides yourself?

I don't need extrabiblical to prove the fact. Paul taught the TWO VESSEL position in Romans 9:19-20 and again in 2 Tim. 2:20-21 where he applied it to believers. Read and get back to me.

Finally, I have a question. If there are two vessels inside each person, does God destroy the dishonorable vessel in the judgment and then everyone's honorable vessel is then admitted into heaven?

First of all the vessels are not the same. The honorable vessel is NOT the same as the vessel of dishonor but they ARE in the same lump. So let's keep the pieces in the right place and not mistake them for each other or the lump they are in.

And if you CAN'T see that THE DEVIL and his messengers are with mankind, I'd suggest a casual stroll through the Gospels with Jesus will readily yield that fact on nearly every page. Satan entered Judas. Satan spoke through Peter. Jesus cast thousands of devils out of mankind. So WHO do you think the OTHER VESSELS are? Wow. Let me see? hmmmmm? Uh???? Well, you tell me.

Is that the way this thing works?

Dalmas

Yer certainly gettin' warmer.

enjoy!

squint

 

[JacobHall86]

I call man bad and evil and depraved because scripture makes it clear that before the Lord calls us to him we are. There are no good guys and bad guys, its bad guys and Jesus thats it.
<Staff Edit>

 

[Johnny Dalmas]

Yer certainly gettin' warmer.

enjoy!

squint

Does that mean I'm on the road to Hell?

 

[Johnny Dalmas]

Anyone who states differently is a pelagian heretic.

Don't sugar coat it. Tell it straight.

 

[chestertonrules]

I call man bad and evil and depraved because scripture makes it clear that before the Lord calls us to him we are. There are no good guys and bad guys, its bad guys and Jesus thats it.
Anyone who states differently is a pelagian heretic.

The question is, does Jesus love all the bad guys?

The bible says yes.

 

[jckstraw72]

God desires not the death of the sinner but that he should be converted and live!