Calvinist Robots

A New Dawn · Feb 26, 2009

chestertonrules said:
How have I distorted them?

All I did was print scripture.

Feel free to tell me that the words of the bible are wrong. That appears to be your point.

You might refer back to my posts. I edited it.

chestertonrules · Feb 26, 2009

A New Dawn said:
You might refer back to my posts. I edited it.

You can read the words. They are not confusing or cryptic.

They are crystal clear. You reject them.

&Abel · Feb 26, 2009

has anyone contemplated the fact that Lucifer was created pure in spirit and body and was complete for his purpose

and yet exercised a choice contrary to instruction from god

you can't claim he fell based on a corrupted will...he was perfect for all intents and purposes and yet CHOSE to rebel against god

LittleLambofJesus · Feb 26, 2009

chestertonrules said:
You can read the words. They are not confusing or cryptic.

They are crystal clear. You reject them.

2 Peter 3:16 As also in all the letters speaking in them about these-things in which is difficult to understand who-any which the un-learned and un-steadfast are wresting/twisting as also the rests of Writings toward the own of them destruction/apwleian <684>. [# 684 used reve 17:8, 11]

PETE_ · Feb 26, 2009

Creation WAS good...it willl be renewed by God, just as we are Eph. 4:24; Col. 3:10

chestertonrules · Feb 26, 2009

LittleLambofJesus said:
2 Peter 3:16 As also in all the letters speaking in them about these-things in which is difficult to understand who-any which the un-learned and un-steadfast are wresting/twisting as also the rests of Writings toward the own of them destruction/apwleian <684>. [# 684 used reve 17:8, 11]

Are these difficult to understand?

Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be driven out. And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.
John 12:31-32

For since death came through a human being, the resurrection of the dead has also come through a human being; for as all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ.
1Cor. 15:21-22

Therefore just as one mans trespass led to condemnation for all, so one mans act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all. Rom. 5:18

For God has imprisoned all in disobedience so that he may be merciful to all.
Rom 11:32

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and he is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 John 2:1-2

The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him and declared, Here is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!
John 1:29

chestertonrules · Feb 26, 2009

&Abel said:
has anyone contemplated the fact that Lucifer was created pure in spirit and body and was complete for his purpose

and yet exercised a choice contrary to instruction from god

you can't claim he fell based on a corrupted will...he was perfect for all intents and purposes and yet CHOSE to rebel against god

Good point. I was thinking about that the other day.

I believe that the potential for rebellion must be included in any free creature.

Stephen Kendall · Feb 26, 2009

Rick Otto said:
Can someone please put to rest the notion that predestination turns humans into robots?

God's will is glory for all, for his will is good, as of Christ Jesus'. Because God's knowledge is great doesn't mean that it is corruptive. Predestination is from a creator's hands to the use of something of His plan (glory). Our free will is granted as we reflect His image. God isn't a robot. His glory isn't a robotic collection of souls. His glory will reveal the purpose of our love, being as His son, Jesus Christ's. It will be a wonderful day.

Rick Otto · Feb 26, 2009

quote=chestertonrules; Why do you keep distorting the gospel? Read the words of the bible and believe them.

Why do you resist the truth & continue to accuse the bretheren?

Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be driven out. And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.
John 12:31-32

"All people" is being said in contradistinction to the then common knowlege that "salvation is of the Jews, NOT all people. "All people" is not being used there to mean "every single individual human being".

For since death came through a human being, the resurrection of the dead has also come through a human being; for as all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ.
1Cor. 15:21-22

"As" is the operative word, not "all" - the dynamic is the same, NOT the individuals involved. God put all mankind "in Adam", but He did NOT put all mankind "in Christ". Only the elect (believers) were put there (Eph1:4)

Therefore just as one mans trespass led to condemnation for all, so one mans act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all. Rom. 5:18

Led to condemnation or righteousness for all that were IN each "one man". Not all who were in Adam were in Christ as well.

For God has imprisoned all in disobedience so that he may be merciful to all.
Rom 11:32

To all peoples, not just Israel; again, context puts the point in perspective;
"Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and he is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 John 2:1-2

Not for ours only is referring to not for us Jews only. "The world" was a common idiomatic expression for non-Jews.

LittleLambofJesus · Feb 26, 2009

Are these difficult to understand?

Nope. But then RCs and Calvinists disagree on them so perhaps I should just let you 2 argue on them

Corinthians 7:23 Of value/honor ye are purchased/hgorasqhte <59>, no be ye becoming! bond-servents of men.

Reve 5:9 And they are singing a song, new, saying: "Worthy Thou are to be receiving the scrollet and to open-up the seals of it. That Thou was slain/slaughtered and did purchase/hgorasaV <59> to the God of us in the blood of Thee, out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation". [Hosea 13:14]

Stephen Kendall · Feb 26, 2009

chestertonrules said:
Good point. I was thinking about that the other day.

I believe that the potential for rebellion must be included in any free creature.

I don't think any creature is free, until they have the spirit of Christ, to trust God and to love others as he did.

Satan had pride. Christ had love. Satan seems predestined, as Christ seems conqueror and filled with the love of God.

Rick Otto · Feb 26, 2009

quote=chestertonrules; How have I distorted them?

You distort them by trying make them mean what they don't.

All I did was print scripture.

That is not true.
You printed scripture as if it was supporting your heresy.

Feel free to tell me that the words of the bible are wrong. That appears to be your point.

Provocation seems to be yours.

Stephen Kendall · Feb 26, 2009

Satan is closed ended, where as believers are opened ended, truly like God the Father.

chestertonrules · Feb 26, 2009

Rick Otto said:
Why do you resist the truth & continue to accuse the bretheren?

Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be driven out. And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.
John 12:31-32

"All people" is being said in contradistinction to the then common knowlege that "salvation is of the Jews, NOT all people. "All people" is not being used there to mean "every single individual human being".

Click to expand...

That's not what the bible says. That's what revisionist theologians say.

For since death came through a human being, the resurrection of the dead has also come through a human being; for as all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ.
1Cor. 15:21-22

"As" is the operative word, not "all" - the dynamic is the same, NOT the individuals involved. God put all mankind "in Adam", but He did NOT put all mankind "in Christ". Only the elect (believers) were put there (Eph1:4)

Click to expand...

You are saying the exact opposite of scripture. Are you kiddiing?

Here:

Just as all hunger without food, so all will be fed with food.

Care to use your interpretation technique on this sentence?

Therefore just as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all, so one man’s act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all. Rom. 5:18

Led to condemnation or righteousness for all that were IN each "one man". Not all who were in Adam were in Christ as well.

So says pope Rick! What gives you the right to change the crystal clear words of scripture?

For God has imprisoned all in disobedience so that he may be merciful to all.
Rom 11:32

To all peoples, not just Israel; again, context puts the point in perspective;

Are all people imprisoned in disobedience, or just Israel?

"Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.

Keep Reading:

30Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you. 32For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and he is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 John 2:1-2

Not for ours only is referring to not for us Jews only. "The world" was a common idiomatic expression for non-Jews.

Just some non Jews, or all non Jews? Just some Jews, or all Jews?

&Abel · Feb 26, 2009

Stephen Kendall said:
Satan is closed ended, where as believers are opened ended, truly like God the Father.

I know what your saying and I agree

BUT our future choices are already known as well

but I do believe satan is a robotic style slave to his corrupted desires

Uphill Battle · Feb 26, 2009

Personally, (despite my disagreement with the theology) I find calling Calvinists "robots" isn't unlike someone calling a Catholic an idolator.

chestertonrules · Feb 26, 2009

Stephen Kendall said:
Satan is closed ended, where as believers are opened ended, truly like God the Father.

Satan is a believer.

chestertonrules · Feb 26, 2009

Uphill Battle said:
Personally, (despite my disagreement with the theology) I find calling Calvinists "robots" isn't unlike someone calling a Catholic an idolator.

What is meant by Calvinist critics, like me, is that Calvinists claim that humans have no control over their human destiny.

Our destiny is pre programmed.

Uphill Battle · Feb 26, 2009

does it matter what you meant?

chestertonrules · Feb 26, 2009

Uphill Battle said:
does it matter what you meant?

Well, I didn't start the thread.

But of course it matters what I mean if we are debating and expressing our opinions.

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