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A New Dawn

Bind my wandering heart to thee!
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God knows who will make it, we don't. Not even Paul:

Nobody but God knows who will make it. One doesn't need to know who makes it to believe in predestination. Believing in predestination doesn't give one special powers or make them prophets. It just means they know how to rightly divide the word.
 
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chestertonrules

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Nobody but God knows who will make it. One doesn't need to know who makes it to believe in predestination. Believing in predestination doesn't give one special powers or make them prophets. It just means they know how to rightly divide the word.


Good for you.
 
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&Abel

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this is my take on that verse:

god gave the Pharaoh every chance in the world to repent

he saw many signs and wonders and still refused to submit to god

god knew the outcome and created everything knowing that pharaoh would reject him in that moment

so ultimately he did make him with a hardened heart because he knew it would happen based on his implemented design of creation

but it was pharaohs choice to harden his heart apposed to accepting gods spirit

but once again this was ultimately god's will because he created everything knowing that Pharaoh would reject him

12(X)Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from (Y)the living God. 13But (Z)encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called "Today," so that none of you will be hardened by the (AA)deceitfulness of sin.
14For we have become partakers of Christ, (AB)if we hold fast the beginning of our (AC)assurance firm until the end,
15while it is said,
"(AD)TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,
DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS, AS WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME."

16For who (AE)provoked Him when they had heard? Indeed, (AF)did not all those who came out of Egypt led by Moses?
17And with whom was He angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, (AG)whose bodies fell in the wilderness?
18And to whom did He swear (AH)that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were (AI)disobedient?
19So we see that they were not able to enter because of (AJ)unbelief.







we are predestined based on our choices that god knows in advance
 
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Rajni

☯ Ego ad Eum pertinent ☯
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Can someone please put to rest the notion that predestination turns humans into robots?

Well, I could try, but it won't be pretty, LOL!

Scripture says that God is the Potter and we are the clay.
Compared to a robot, which moves around, makes funky noises computes certain things, and actually gets some stuff done, clay just sits there. Robots, on the other hand, at least create an illusion of something akin to autonomy (provided their batteries are charged on a regular basis).

Long story short, the notion that we are robots is too flattering, if Scripture's statement on the issue is any indicator.

.
 
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&Abel

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listen, everytime you reach out to a sinner and try to convert them

thats god reaching out to that sinner...god attempts to reach every man but its up to that man(or woman) to respond

if they don't respond then they were not predestined cause god already knew they wouldn't

its all about the end result

the end result is so good it was worth the loss aparently

but I don't believe god went into the drawing board and decided "well I'm gonna kill all these people cause it'll be fun, and save these ones"

he saw our choices playing out before he created ANYTHING and attempted to salvage every last vessel he could while attaining the perfect result
 
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squint

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I don't do too many special applause posts, but THAT WAS AWESOME!


 
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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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You must endure to make it until the last day.

Why do we need to keep watchful?

He will come like a thief in the night!
Just don't get caught in the shower

2 Peter 3:10 Shall be arriving yet day of Lord as thief in night, in which the Heavens boomingly shall be passing-away/pareleu-sontai <3928> (5695), elements yet burning shall be being loosed, and Land and the in her works shall be being burned.

Reve 16:15 Behold! I am coming as a thief. Happy is the one-watching and keeping the garments of him, that no naked he may be walking-about and they may be observing the indecency of him
 
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Epiphoskei

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Monergism is not compatible with free will. It is merely a rhetorical defense mechanism devised by men embarrassed by their theology.
That's your opinion. But people like Augustine and Aquinas who were free will Monergists disagree with you, and while you are free to disagree with what they say, you are not free to make them into synergists simply because they accept free will.



Why not? Because it conflicts with your dogma?
Because the text says "Justification and life for all men," and it's an example of obvious cherrypicking to seperate justification and life, one into a christian-only gift, and the other as a form of semi-pelagian prevenient grace. You may not give life to all men if you do not give justification to all men, which is heresy.
 
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chestertonrules

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chestertonrules

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It says LEADS TO Justification and life for all men,"

You read it as ASSURES Justification and life for all men,"
 
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&Abel

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squint

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Or even worse, in BED with another MAN!

Luke 17:34
I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

Apparently coming in the night though eh?

http://www.rhapsody.com/player?type...ageregion=&guid=&from=&hasrhapx=false&__pcode=
 
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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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In that case I will only sleep and shower during the day before the sun goes down......

Exodus 12:29 And is becoming mid/02677 chetsiy of the night and YHWH smote every of firstborn in land of Egypt, from firstborn of Pharaoh, the one sitting on his Throne, unto firstborn of the captive which in house of cistern and every of firstborn of beast.[Matt 25:5/Reve 16:10]

Matt 25:5 Of tarrying yet the Bridegroom they nod all and are slept.
6 Of middle yet of night a cry has occured "behold! the Bridegroom. Be ye coming out! into meeting of Him". [Exodus 12:29/Reve 16:10]
 
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Epiphoskei

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It says LEADS TO Justification and life for all men,"

You read it as ASSURES Justification and life for all men,"

You are the one reading it as assures justification and life for all men. Yours is the argument that says every man is acually alive in Christ according to this passage. I am the one telling you that you can't do that. The text does not say "life for all men," it says "justification and life for all men." Are all men justified? Obviously not. Is every man alive in Christ? Also obviously not. No one is just alive, but not justified.
 
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