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question: Someone is "predestined." They don't believe in predestination. Possible? or are only those who accept predestination, predestined? (IOW, those that are the elect would believe they are predestined, any who wouldn't, can't be.)
because if it's the former, instead of the latter, It's of absolutely no signifigance whatsoever.
If knowing or not knowing you are predestined has nothing to do with it, It's all rather moot.
What do you mean by 'Adam is man's representative to God'?A New Dawn said:What we know to be true is that Adam is man's representative to God, as the Bible is clear about that.
The Bible is also clear that only those who believe will be saved.
There are multiple kinds of Calvinism. My problems are with the traditional 5 points Calvinism.
As you can see from these boards, there are many who defend the most extreme positions.
These views are damaging and should be exposed and refuted.
I would think you would be on my side for this!
What we know to be true is that Adam is man's representative to God, as the Bible is clear about that. The Bible is also clear that only those who believe will be saved. So, knowing those two things, we know that the first all is a concrete definition of everyone, the second all's context is that of believers. Two different meanings from two different contexts.
And we happen to know that from reading the Bible, knowing what the context is, knowing what the words (really) mean, and absolutely nothing to do with anything Calvin said, unless it was coincidental.
question: Someone is "predestined." They don't believe in predestination. Possible?
or are only those who accept predestination, predestined? (IOW, those that are the elect would believe they are predestined, any who wouldn't, can't be.)
because if it's the former, instead of the latter, It's of absolutely no signifigance whatsoever.
If knowing or not knowing you are predestined has nothing to do with it, It's all rather moot.
The first problem is you claim to distinguish between Calvinists, but its obvious from your posts that you don't. Second, is that the Hodges and Kuiper ARE traditional 5 point Calvinists.
I disagree.
Its easy to see those you have disparaged are not "extreme" Calvinists. ArticFox is one you have disparaged repeatedly, and yet he is one of the more honest and irenic posters on CF.
Disparaged, or disagreed with? Must I agree with everyone?
I'm not on the side of anyone who wants to stir up dissension, falsely represent others and slander them. Don't ignore the ethical dimension which has a far greater impact than most people think. James said that peacemakers who sow in peace reap a harvest of righteousness. Sowing dissension has the opposite effect.
James also said that justification comes through works, and not faith alone, yet Calvinists reject this. Should this error be whitewashed, or amplified and explored?
James also said that the wisdom from above is peace-loving, considerate, sincere, and impartial. Paul said that one's conversation should always be full of grace and seasoned with salt when answering everyone.
Here's how James ends his epistle:
19My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, 20remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.
And Paul has this insightful comment:
11They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teachand that for the sake of dishonest gain. 12Even one of their own prophets has said, "Cretans are always liars, evil brutes, lazy gluttons." 13This testimony is true. Therefore, rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith.
I'm not claiming that this applies to you. It could equally be applied to me if you feel I am wrong.
The point is, we are not to stand by and let falsehoods or dangerous doctrines be promulgated.
We should fight for the truth to the best of our ability.
Do you disagree?
question: Someone is "predestined." They don't believe in predestination. Possible? or are only those who accept predestination, predestined? (IOW, those that are the elect would believe they are predestined, any who wouldn't, can't be.)
because if it's the former, instead of the latter, It's of absolutely no signifigance whatsoever.
If knowing or not knowing you are predestined has nothing to do with it, It's all rather moot.
Yeah, this is kinda like my (admittedly silly, but real) question; do any non-elect believe in election ?
this could be why
It does not bother me personally, but others may actually read such misinformed opinions and take them as fact.
Judging by the things many non calvinists present, it happens way to often to allow it to go unchallenged
God uses men to accomplish His plan
He leads, I follow
Our destiny may be determined but our actions in this life will be judged. I choose to try and be obedient. If I do not deliver the message, I will have to answer for that, and God will still get it to those that need to hear it
It does not bother me personally, but others may actually read such misinformed opinions and take them as fact.
Judging by the things many non calvinists present, it happens way to often to allow it to go unchallenged
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