Calvinism is Temporally Minded. Missing Revelation.

BryanW92

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So, rather than accuse a follower of Jesus Christ who gives all glory to God and is faithful in the Word of God and prayer of being a Buddhist, perhaps one might speak with greater grace in love in Jesus.

I'm not accusing you of being a Buddhist. The problem is that, since the 1960s, we have accepted Buddhist teachings into our culture. Karma, zen, TM, meditation, etc are all just a part of our way of life now and we don't recognize it as Buddhist because it appears Western to people who don't remember Western culture before that stuff was added.

So, people innocently bring these ideas into their version of Christianity because they like them. You aren't unique. I know plenty of Christians who bring Buddhist ideas into our faith. Most of them even think that it "adds" to our faith.

There is nothing in the letter to the church of Philadelphia that requires the things you claim. Nothing about the need to acknowledge our spirit beings or any of the other stuff.

In the interests of Christian honesty, what church do you belong to? Or are you another one of those "lone Christians who knows better than the rest of us"?
 
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BryanW92

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The remainder of mankind are angels incarnate in spirit made human - male and female.

The Genesis creation was created because God loves with love that does not depend on works. God loved the angels who fell while hating their sin. God hates sin and loves sinners.

God created the Genesis creation to make "earth suits" for Himself and angels... creating a temporal realm of redemption for angels made human.

That's interesting. Are you saying that we are all fallen angels?
 
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Laura Lee

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I'm not accusing you of being a Buddhist. The problem is that, since the 1960s, we have accepted Buddhist teachings into our culture. Karma, zen, TM, meditation, etc are all just a part of our way of life now and we don't recognize it as Buddhist because it appears Western to people who don't remember Western culture before that stuff was added.

So, people innocently bring these ideas into their version of Christianity because they like them. You aren't unique. I know plenty of Christians who bring Buddhist ideas into our faith. Most of them even think that it "adds" to our faith.

There is nothing in the letter to the church of Philadelphia that requires the things you claim. Nothing about the need to acknowledge our spirit beings or any of the other stuff.

In the interests of Christian honesty, what church do you belong to? Or are you another one of those "lone Christians who knows better than the rest of us"?

You are engaging in slander.
 
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Laura Lee

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Really? How so? We are all products of the culture.

I am in the world not of it... discussing scripture. You are engaging in slander.

If you think being born of the Holy Spirit through living faith in Jesus Christ being spirit born of the Spirit is Buddhism... you're hopelessly lost.
 
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BryanW92

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I am in the world not of it... discussing scripture. You are engaging in slander.

If you think being born of the Holy Spirit through living faith in Jesus Christ being spirit born of the Spirit is Buddhism... you're hopelessly lost.

The correct term would be libel since slander is oral defamation.

But, you are still influenced by the culture and society. I think that two adults can discuss scripture and disagree without one of them childishly resorting to claims of slander or blasphemy or declaring the other to be "hopelessly lost". You have declared every other person in this thread to be "lost" (or words to that effect) in one or more posts. This is the "Debate with a Calvinist" forum and not the "Make Calvinists listen to your 10,000 word screed without disagreement" forum.

No one is saying that "being born of the Holy Spirit through living faith in Jesus Christ" is Buddhism. But, your statements about levels and us being the earth-bodies for angels and transfiguring ourselves is a little Buddhist in their nature.
 
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Laura Lee

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The correct term would be libel since slander is oral defamation.

But, you are still influenced by the culture and society. I think that two adults can discuss scripture and disagree without one of them childishly resorting to claims of slander or blasphemy or declaring the other to be "hopelessly lost". You have declared every other person in this thread to be "lost" (or words to that effect) in one or more posts. This is the "Debate with a Calvinist" forum and not the "Make Calvinists listen to your 10,000 word screed without disagreement" forum.

No one is saying that "being born of the Holy Spirit through living faith in Jesus Christ" is Buddhism. But, your statements about levels and us being the earth-bodies for angels and transfiguring ourselves is a little Buddhist in their nature.

You've accused me of Buddhism. That's slander. That's the Bible definition.

Matthew 17:17 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, 2 and was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. 3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

Is this Buddhism??

What is this?? It is the Church of Philadelphia transfiguring... in entire sanctification... and every other church being outside of the protection that the Church of Philadelphia alone enters.
Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2 and she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. 3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. 5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. 6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. 14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. 15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. 16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

How does the scripture declare that the body comes to this fullness?? Through sanctification in truth.

I didn't say the other churches aren't saved. I said what Jesus said... they will not escape tribulation with the Church of Philadelphia.

Now, if you want to be an infant and declare it "Buddhism"... that the Bible says that the seed of our spirit as saints will bring forth a body after it's own kind... and that body is the body of an angel... and you just want to think with Calvinists within time about human flesh and not about before time, in time, and after time to see hypostatic union revealed in scripture... that's between you and the Lord.

But you won't escape tribulation. That requires full revelation.

I'm telling you what the scripture says. It's childish of you to call me a Buddhist for declaring scripture.

And, if you want a friendly conversation... then you might want to apologize.

Calvinism is temporally minded... and it's not enough revelation to escape tribulation.

It takes seeing that the Genesis creation is a temporal creation created for the redemption of angels who fell as angels and could not be saved as angels.

It doesn't matter how "outside the box" that is to your mind or anyone else's. It's the Word of God.

I am making a scriptural case. Issuing slander at me calling me a "Buddhist" for it... is not a debate. It's a personal attack.
 
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BryanW92

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I am making a scriptural case. Issuing slander at me calling me a "Buddhist" for it... is not a debate. It's a personal attack.

I'm not calling you a Buddhist. I'm just questioning the source of some of your philosophy. Just bits of it. Not the whole of your beliefs.
 
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Laura Lee

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This is the "Debate with a Calvinist" forum and not the "Make Calvinists listen...

I sent my church the link to this forum post... so they can view it.

My church is the Church of Philadelphia. I am not a Calvinist.

A Calvinist thinks that God created the human race as a new and separate people group.

A Calvinist thinks God the Father gives not a care at all for 1/3 of His sons, the holy angels, who fell to become sinners through just one sin.

A Calvinist thinks God the Father gives not a care at all for all mankind who fell through just one sin in Adam.

A Calvinist thinks God created holy angels to make them devils for eternity... and created reprobate human beings to spend eternity in hell.

A Calvinist goes and communicates that vision of God... and God has never said that in His Word.

Rather, God the Father created the whole Genesis creation so that the fallen angels would be made the reprobate human beings who are saved through fire on the Last Day as humans... the only way they can be saved.

God the Father allowed no holy angel and no man to fall... without the plan to restore all to their original state as angels.

You're not preaching God the Father or God the Son as they truly are... and it is a disgrace. A disgrace done in ignorance... but no Calvinist has any true concept of the true heart of God in love as their Father, Redeemer, and Savior.

So, God wants His name cleared... and His face seen clearly.

God is so Infinitely Loving... that He knows that devils are sinners just like Calvinists in their flesh.... and He created the whole Genesis creation to save fallen angels.

What a far cry it is from the vision of God that Calvinists preach and teach.

God wants His name vindicated... and so He is sending full revelation of His eternal whole counsel.

God hates sin and loves sinner and will not leave any person in their fall... angel or human.

In fact, all humans are angels in spirit in hypostatic union just like God the Son is God in Spirit as Christ Jesus the Lord, a human, in hypostatic union.

Preach the whole gospel... not a distorted misrepresentation of God.

Get the whole revelation.
 
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Laura Lee

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That's interesting. Are you saying that we are all fallen angels?

Mankind is a race of hypostatic union... being both spirit... and human.

The human race is a pre-determined population.

The human race in spirit is the population of Heaven originally: God and the angels.

God in Spirit in hypostatic union is Jesus Christ the man being both fully God and fully human.

The holy angels in spirit in hypostatic union are the elect who become saints being both fully angel and fully human (made male and female).

The fallen angels in spirit in hypostatic union are the reprobate who die in their sins (then come through the fire saved on the Last Day) being both fully angel and fully human (made male and female).

Adam in his creation was an angel made human.

Thus, he was made neither male nor female in the likeness of an angel in human flesh. Then God made Adam, the angel made human in hypostatic union, both male and female. God did the same of each angel.

Daniel 7:2 Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea. 3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another. 4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle’s wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man’s heart was given to it.

Angels being made human.

It is the whole human race. (Only exception is Jesus Christ who is literally God in Spirit Incarnate made a man.)

God hath concluded us all under sin in the flesh of Adam... that He might have mercy on all.

It is a much larger story told in the Bible... than the story that Calvinists are telling.

This is a matrix... and all humans are angels in hypostatic union as flesh humans having a spirit.

Again, the reprobate are the fallen angels made human.

The elect are the elect angels made human.

Multiple places in scripture it is declared that angels are made human and are the human race in hypostatic union.
 
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BryanW92

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Again, the reprobate are the fallen angels made human.

The elect are the elect angels made human.

Multiple places in scripture it is declared that angels are made human and are the human race in hypostatic union.

So, if the elect are elect angels and the reprobate are fallen angels and creation is an opportunity for the reprobate to redeem themselves, then how do they accomplish that?
 
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Laura Lee

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So, if the elect are elect angels and the reprobate are fallen angels and creation is an opportunity for the reprobate to redeem themselves, then how do they accomplish that?

No one can redeem themselves. The cross literally destroyed the spirit of sin... and therefore automatically restores all creation at the return of the Lord.

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Hypostatic union is God being made a man to take on flesh and blood. Then, on the cross... He was thus able to destroy the spirit of sin straight out of existence in His body taking away all sin once for all time.

The power of the blood of Jesus... what Jesus did on the cross... was so much more powerful and great than people are seeing.

At His bodily return... He returns in a Heavenly body... and restores all to Heavenly again.

It's more beautiful and wonderful... so much more powerful... than people are seeing.

Redemption is hypostatic union...a nd it restores all creation. Even fallen angels. And utterly destroys all darkness... all of sin and fall and ruin... completely.

Hypostatic union.

The power of the blood.

More great than words can describe.

The wonder of the cross and body and blood of God made a man.

The Heavenly Spirit of God... merging with material matter... to destroy the spirit of sin... totally and completely on the cross.

Made manifest at His return.

Without comprehending the fullness of hypostatic union... the plan of God... what it means...

the glory of the cross is not seen in it's fullness.
 
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Laura Lee

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Atonement. Hypostatic union.

Atonement cannot be comprehended in it's fullness... without comprehending hypostatic union.

And realizing... that hypostatic union... is the whole Genesis creation... not just God.

It is a COMPLETE PLAN of hypostatic union... and is thus the ATONEMENT.

To comprehend the ATONEMENT... is to comprehend... the full revelation of God in His plan.

Glorious beyond comprehension. So great in surpassing glory of God's goodness!

You see, the Genesis creation itself.. in it's matter... is the hypostatic union of the First Estate of Heaven.

It's Garden of Eden in hypostatic union with the Garden of God above... in Jesus Christ our Lord through Him in His creation of the Genesis creation as it's chief cornerstone... who is in union with God the Father in the First Estate of Heaven.

Hypostatic union.

It is all in union connected through Jesus Christ to God the Father.

You see, the angels are made human beings. God is made Jesus Christ.

The Heaven and earth above us... is made the Genesis creation.

And, when it is ended... the Genesis creation becomes the earth and Heaven presently above us... men become angels again... New Jerusalem comes down... and we enter New Jerusalem to see the face of God the Father... as God the Father and God the Son become One again.

Hypostatic union.

Atonement.

It takes seeing what I see... to see the face of Jesus so clearly... one can transfigure... at the appointed time.

One cannot see the face of Jesus in fullness... without seeing the full glory of the cross... hypostatic union of all creation in Him... on that cross.

Atonement.

And for Calvinists to talk about what they talk about... without seeing that the whole larger plan??

They are going around a mountain... not climbing it... to see the face of God revealed.

They must look for hypostatic union not just in Jesus... which is true... but the plan of hypostatic union of the whole Genesis creation and mankind... for the purpose of atonement... in full destruction of Satan.

That is so much more great revelation.

All I can do is tell them... "you're missing it... look again."
 
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BryanW92

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All I can do is tell them... "you're missing it... look again."

I used to be Arminian and I was "missing it". Now, I'm Calvinist and I'm not "missing it". Angels are not human and vice-versa. Period. Hypostasis is for God/Jesus.

I understand where you are coming from, having read your highly interesting testimony. But, what you believe is just wrong according to the teachings of every known church. I have a full-time job, so I just don't have to time to "discover" new unorthodox theologies such as yours or to waste my time "proving" you wrong. So, I wish the best of luck to you and your church.
 
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Laura Lee

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I used to be Arminian and I was "missing it". Now, I'm Calvinist and I'm not "missing it". Angels are not human and vice-versa. Period. Hypostasis is for God/Jesus.

I understand where you are coming from, having read your highly interesting testimony. But, what you believe is just wrong according to the teachings of every known church. I have a full-time job, so I just don't have to time to "discover" new unorthodox theologies such as yours or to waste my time "proving" you wrong. So, I wish the best of luck to you and your church.


Well, you didn't know that God was Sovereign... and now you don't know that we have a spirit born of God from New Jerusalem above.

So, like you didn't know everything yesterday... you don't know everything today.

We have a spirit born of God from New Jerusalem above. We are getting Heavenly bodies at the Lord's return.

If you think we are merely human... well, as I have said all along... that's my objection to Calvinism (and Arminiasm): temporal minded man-centeredness.

We gain angel bodies in the redemption of our bodies.

Do you know what redemption means?? The return of what you originally had or were.

We're not being redeemed to human bodies. We're being redeemed to angel bodies.

(Meaning that's what we started with.... not a human body.)

re·deem
rəˈdēm/
verb
1.
compensate for the faults or bad aspects of (something).
"a disappointing debate redeemed only by an outstanding speech"
synonyms: save, compensate for the defects of, vindicate More
do something that compensates for poor past performance or behavior.
"they redeemed themselves in the playoffs by pushing the Detroit Red Wings to a seventh and deciding game"
synonyms: vindicate, free from blame, absolve
"he fully redeemed himself in the next race"
(of a person) atone or make amends for (error or evil).
"the thief on the cross who by a single act redeemed a life of evil"
synonyms: atone for, make amends for, make restitution for
"you cannot redeem their sins"
save (someone) from sin, error, or evil.
"he was a sinner, redeemed by the grace of God"
synonyms: save, deliver from sin, convert
"who shall redeem these sinners?"
2.
gain or regain possession of (something) in exchange for payment.
"his best suit had been redeemed from the pawnbrokers"
synonyms: retrieve, regain, recover, get back, reclaim, repossess; buy back
"Billy redeemed his drums from the pawnbrokers"

Synonym: RETRIEVE, REGAIN, RECOVER, GET BACK, RECLAIM, REPOSSESS...


We are getting back ANGEL BODIES!!

Hello.

I think y'all aren't seeing what's right in front of you.
 
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Laura Lee

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Acts 3:20 and he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

In the end, when this earth becomes the same earth presently above us... and we become angels... it's called the "restitution of all things".

Full Definition of RESTITUTION

1
: an act of restoring or a condition of being restored: as
a : a restoration of something to its rightful owner
b : a making good of or giving an equivalent for some injury
2
: a legal action serving to cause restoration of a previous state

In the end... everything is RESTORED... just as it was.

So, when the scripture tells us we will be angels on the Genesis creation recreated to be exactly what the First Estate of Heaven was originally....

and you cannot see the biblical case that we were angels... the Genesis creation is a temporary creation for redemption in which angels are made human for the purpose of redemption and restoration through the redemption back to angelic bodies... so everything is as it was before the devil and his angels fell...

oh, you're missing it.

Why? Temporal minded man-centeredness.

You cannot see the spiritual... and are at a lesser level revelation... patronizing those who see and know more than you do. :)
 
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Laura Lee

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You cannot solve a multi-dimensional logic puzzle using one dimensional thinking.

You cannot solve an eternal logical puzzle with temporal thinking.

You cannot think at the level, "All mankind fell in Adam. God is Sovereign. There is election and reprobation"... and solve the puzzle. That's only ONE dimensional: man in time.

You have not developed the ability to comprehend time and eternity... the First Estate of Heaven, the creation of angels, the fall of angels, the Genesis creation, the creation of mankind, the fall of mankind, the cross, the return of Jesus, the Genesis creation recreated as the First Estate of Heaven, New Jerusalem come down, the saved becoming angels, entering New Jerusalem... the restitution of all things... as all one eternal whole counsel plan.

You're at a one dimensional level: mancentered temporal thinking.

You don't get it.

Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Ephesians 3:21 unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

Acts 3:20 and he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Full Definition of RESTITUTION

1
: an act of restoring or a condition of being restored: as
a : a restoration of something to its rightful owner
b : a making good of or giving an equivalent for some injury
2
: a legal action serving to cause restoration of a previous state
See restitution defined for English-language learners
See restitution defined for kids
 
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Laura Lee

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"All mankind fell in Adam. God is 100% Sovereign. There is election and reprobation".

Yes, I understand that. In fact, I have been reading the Bible since I could read... and had that figured out at maybe 8 years old.

That's milk for babies. If someone believes "man has free will!"... how could they have read the Bible one time cover to cover?? Any truly saved Christian who prayerfully reads the Bible should be able to see, "All mankind fell in Adam. God is 100% Sovereign. There is election and reprobation"... from one reading of the Bible.

That's why as soon as people got Bibles... there was a Reformation.

However, how can people be stuck on "All mankind fell in Adam. God is 100% Sovereign. There is election and reprobation"... for all their adult lives??

Are they reading the Bible?? Or just listening to preachers??

Because if you read the Bible multiple times... it will begin to occur to you, "The saints become angels bodily at the return of Jesus. We don't remain human in our bodies. We were not created to remain human in our bodies. The Genesis creation was created to be destroyed... and mankind is a temporary race. The Genesis creation is the reproduction of the First Estate of Heaven above us... and becomes the First Estate of Heaven upon completion as New Jerusalem comes down... and we become angels."

Can we please move on here and explore the eternal whole counsel plan... not just milk for baby doctrine I knew when I was 8 years old from my own reading of the Bible??
 
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