Calvinism huh?

[oworm]

God was very pleased with Jesus Christ at the cross, and rewarded Him with eternal life, giving Him the keys of hell and death for all eternity.

Interesting thought, considering that Jesus being part of the Godhead and has no beggining or end because he IS God in the flesh, how could he be "rewarded" with eternal life if he already is an eternal being?

 

[puriteen18]

In the Epistle of Ephesians, Paul addresses a Gentile people concerning the mystery of God, which was kept hidden from men until the time God revealed it to Paul. This mystery concerns God's election.

Prior to the new covenant established by Jesus Christ at the cross, only the Hebrews were considered God's chosen people. The Hebrew nation consisted of all those who followed the Abrahamic covenant of circumcision and the Mosaic covenant of the law. They were chosen as God's people.

However, even some of Israel fell, as can be plainly seen in the account of their travels in the wilderness. Paul states in Romans that not all Israel went into the promised land, and the writer of Hebrews (who I believe is Paul) states the people of Israel did not enter into the promised land because of unbelief.

Now, because of the new covenant, our hearts can be circumsized by faith in the cross of Christ for the remission of our sins, and obey the Gospel of Jesus Christ, so God can write His law upon our hearts. This covenant has now been given to the Gentiles, that they may receive, or inherit, the blessings of Abraham through faith in God's Son, Jesus Christ.

The mystery of the election, the mystery of predestination, is not individual election, but corporate election of the Gentiles to be included into the blessings of the LORD.

Attempting to make every man perfect in Christ Jesus,
Danny

In Romans, Paul says that not all of Israel was true Israel.

Romans 11
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.

In the old covenant, God called His people from the nation of Israel, but He did not call all Israelites, only the elect. Today, in the new covenant, God calls His sheep from every nation.

This is the message of the atonement of Jesus Christ. His blood shed on the cross is good enough to satisfy God of His anger for our sins. This atonement is presented to all who are willing to turn from their evil ways. However, most people love their sins more than they love Jesus Christ. Not all will be saved due to their unbelief in the power of God's resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.

God was pleased with Jesus Christ when Jesus gave His life at the cross. Jesus did not complain, murmur, or blame anybody while at the cross. He took it like a man. God was very pleased with Jesus Christ at the cross, and rewarded Him with eternal life, giving Him the keys of hell and death for all eternity.

Sir, you seem to put too much emphasis on the physical sufferings of Christ. Even though these physical sufferings were terrible to say the least, it is not in these that atonement rests but in His spiritual sufferings.

Isaiah 53
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.



God placed on Christ the sins of His elect. On the cross, God judged His Son for our wickedness. This is why God turns His back on His Son because God will not look on sin. Jesus does not ask why men have forsaken Him, why men have beat Him, He asked His Father why He forsook Him.

 

[oworm]

In the Scriptures, many individuals are mentioned as being perfect in all their ways, ie Job, Elizabeth, Ruth, etc. If the doctrine of Total Depravity is true, then why are these Biblical characters referred to as being morally perfect if God knows they are not morally perfect?

They were made perfect by imputation. No one is perfect except God because:Rom 3:23-24 all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus


Heb 10:14 because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.


COL 1:28 We proclaim him, admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone perfect in Christ.

Christs sacrifice and atonement for sin cancels the penalty due to the believer. By taking our sin he imputes to the believer his righteousness,or he "clothes " the believer in his perfection so that the christian is then acceptable to God.

It is of paramouint importance to God that his children are secure. How could he be a father otherwise?
For those of you who have fathers: Do you doupt that you are his child?

 

[puriteen18]

He took it like a man.

Sir, this is on the brim of blasphemy. To say Christ took it as a man. What man could endure the Wrath of God as the Righteous One?

He took it not as a man, but as the Son of God, God Himself, even the Redeemer of men.

 

[puriteen18]

It is unwise to tell young believers, "Well, if God chooses you, you'll make it in," because this gives believers a good reason to disobey God.

No sir, it is never unwise to speak the truth. It is unwise to preach heresies.

 

[puriteen18]

They were made perfect by imputation. No one is perfect except God because:Rom 3:23-24 all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus


Heb 10:14 because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.


COL 1:28 We proclaim him, admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone perfect in Christ.

Christs sacrifice and atonement for sin cancels the penalty due to the believer. By taking our sin he imputes to the believer his righteousness,or he "clothes " the believer in his perfection so that the christian is then acceptable to God.

It is of paramouint importance to God that his children are secure. How could he be a father otherwise?
For those of you who have fathers: Do you doupt that you are his child?

Amen!

 

[puriteen18]

Most eternal security believers like to dismiss the major Scriptures that disprove it by saying "Oh, Hebrews wasn't written for the Gentiles," or "The Gospels were written only for those who lived during the time of Christ." However, most believers of eternal security like to use Scriptures located in Hebrews or the Gospels to prove other points of doctrine, which is very inconsistent.

Sir, I do not dismiss Hebrews or any other book of God's Word, but you must weigh what you read in one part of Scripture to the whole of Scripture.

Of course, God knows who will perservere until the end, but to tell somebody "Once you say your prayers and do this and that, you can never lose your salvation," shows a lack of maturity or laziness in your Christian life. Jesus said, If any man will come after me, let him take up his cross and follow me. To follow Him is to know Him, to know Him is to believe in Him. Jesus also said, No man putting his hand on the plow and looking back is not fit for the Kingdom of God (oops, I used verses in the Gospels).

If you know anything about Calvinism, then you know that we are against teaching that simple recitation of a prayer will save you.

If you ever took a history class, then you know that Calvinists over the centuries have been ridiculed for their strict moral codes. We believe we can contribute nothing to our salvation. It is only by the mere pleasure of God and by His Grace. Yet we teach that the true Christian will stirve to please God because a true Christian is a new creature. Not saying that we are made perfect. Far from it, but we teach that the true Christian will strive for perfection out of a love for God.

The big question: can a Christian lose their salvation? If they lose their faith in the blood of Jesus Christ shed on the cross of Calvary as the perfect atonement for the removal of sins, then their sins remain, death comes, and the destruction of their soul follows after death by the flames of eternal hellfire and brimstone. Don't fear him who can take away your body, but fear Him who can throw your soul into hell.

John 10
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.

We are in the Father's hands. Who can remove us? It is the Father who grants faith. Does He take it from us?

True, many have made a false confession and are not truly saved. While they may show zeal for a while, they will fall away. Some shall perform even great works, but they are not saved. They may even have false assurance because God has blinded their eyes from the truth, but they shall meet the destruction which we all deserve.

Thanks be to God that salvation rests not in our hands but in His hand. For if it were left up to us, we should surely all fall into hell.

 

[Carico]

Jesus said, "you didn't choose me, I chose you." That pretty much sums it up in a nutshell. We do not have control of the universe. Does anybody know what church supports Calvinism? I'm currently looking for one.

 

[puriteen18]

I'm a Reformed and Covenanted Southern Baptist. There is a group within the Southern Baptist that is seeking Reformation within the church and a return to our Calvinist roots. Here's a website with churches on it:
www.founders.org

There is also aa new denomination called Reformed Baptist which hold to the London Confession of Faith of 1689.(which is what I hold to)
www.reformedbaptist.com

There is the Presbyterian Church in America
Orthodox Presbyterian
Covenanted Presbyterian
Associated Presbyterian (Covenanted)

and anything that has Reformed tacked on is usually okay

Dutch Reformed
Protestant Reformed
Reformed Prortestant
Reformed Epicopal
Dutch Heritage Reformed

I would warn against the Christian Reformed Church, since I believe that they now ordain women, but I'm not totally sure there the one.

Also I would warn against Hyper-Calvinist (usually Primitive Baptist)

Hope this helps. Feel free to send me a private message, as I could help a lot more if you are looking for a specific church near you. Wish I could post everything, but don't want to waste any more space. PM me and I'll try to help you all I can.

 

[oworm]

Jesus said, "you didn't choose me, I chose you." That pretty much sums it up in a nutshell. We do not have control of the universe. Does anybody know what church supports Calvinism? I'm currently looking for one.

Usually anything of the "reformed" "presbyterian" persuasion. Baptist is usually the same but there may be some exceptions to this.

 

[armothe]

Jesus said, "you didn't choose me, I chose you." That pretty much sums it up in a nutshell.

Ahem. I believe he was making this statement to His disciples - whom He called, and they followed.

Context, context, context....

-A

 

[Carico]

This is a very important thread. Christianity is a religion of paradox. I believe that we were chosen by God which is definitly scriptural. I do not believe we have free will. However, once we point out to someone that it is their rebellion is what is keeping them from God and they begin to admit this, then the beginning of the truth has begun to sink in. They begin to feel convicted. We have to confront a person's rebellious attitude so that he sees his own sin much like allowing a child to think he is acting freely when in reality, it is the parents who are creating conditions for him to think that. What decides whether or not they come to Christ, however, is whether God is drawing them in the first place because Jesus said "No one can come to the father unless the Father draws him." If God is drawing him then He will come to God, period. That is why rejection of the Holy Spirit is the only unforgiveable sin. It is God who enables us to believe, not ourselves. We cannot "muster up" faith. It is a gift.

 

[puriteen18]

Usually anything of the "reformed" "presbyterian" persuasion. Baptist is usually the same but there may be some exceptions to this.

Yes, modern Baptist swing wide.

 

[Netpreacher]

Interesting thought, considering that Jesus being part of the Godhead and has no beggining or end because he IS God in the flesh, how could he be "rewarded" with eternal life if he already is an eternal being?

The Bible tells us He learned obedience through His sufferings. I do not deny the deity of Christ, however, as the Son of Man, He had to experience what man experiences, and one of the things He had to experience was obedience. At the cross, Jesus "learned" obedience; not that He needed to learn about something He already knew, but He wanted to experience it.

 

[Netpreacher]

Sir, you seem to put too much emphasis on the physical sufferings of Christ. Even though these physical sufferings were terrible to say the least, it is not in these that atonement rests but in His spiritual sufferings.

Isaiah 53
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.



God placed on Christ the sins of His elect. On the cross, God judged His Son for our wickedness. This is why God turns His back on His Son because God will not look on sin. Jesus does not ask why men have forsaken Him, why men have beat Him, He asked His Father why He forsook Him.

I do not deny the sufferings of Christ spiritually; I believe the Father forsook His Son because of the sins of the world being placed upon Him. When we place our hands upon Christ by faith and place on Him our own individual sins, He thereby can receive them and be our atonement for those sins.

I make a big deal out of His physical suffering at the cross because He made a big deal out of it throughout His ministry. He spoke very plainly of His suffering at the cross, and I don't want to take it lightly. His atonement would have been meaningless if He did not experience the pain of the cross.

 

[Netpreacher]

They were made perfect by imputation. No one is perfect except God because:Rom 3:23-24 all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus


Heb 10:14 because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.


COL 1:28 We proclaim him, admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone perfect in Christ.

Christs sacrifice and atonement for sin cancels the penalty due to the believer. By taking our sin he imputes to the believer his righteousness,or he "clothes " the believer in his perfection so that the christian is then acceptable to God.

It is of paramouint importance to God that his children are secure. How could he be a father otherwise?
For those of you who have fathers: Do you doupt that you are his child?

If this doctrine of imputation is true, then we are at liberty to sin? If we are clothed with His righteousness, we don't need to be righteous, because His righteousness clothes us on the outside.

Pardon my absurdity, but this is what this version of the doctrine of imputed righteousness breeds. His righteousness must dwell within us, and only by the circumcision of our hearts through faith in Christ Jesus can this be accomplished. Without holiness, no man shall see God.

 

[Netpreacher]

Sir, this is on the brim of blasphemy. To say Christ took it as a man. What man could endure the Wrath of God as the Righteous One?

He took it not as a man, but as the Son of God, God Himself, even the Redeemer of men.

I apologize for sounding like a heretic with this statement. This was not my intention. When I say, "Jesus took it like a man," I mean, "Jesus took the full brunt of the cross without shrinking from it." I did not intend to portray Christ as just a man; I intend to portray Him as a godly, strong, fearless leader who will bring me into His Kingdom when He returns with His Father's glory.

Also, this is the way which we must follow. Jesus Christ provided us with the way of life, and that way is through the cross. Jesus set forth an example that we must follow, and that example is the cross. I can post what the Lord has revealed to me concerning the way of the cross, if you like.

 

[Netpreacher]

No sir, it is never unwise to speak the truth. It is unwise to preach heresies.

The Lord admonishes us to judge a tree by its fruit. The fruit I have seen through reformed doctrine is not very good. It breeds lazy Christians who believe they are not required to do anything except believe a few platitudes concerning doctrine. I don't mean to say this in a bad way, but I must confess my disheartened attitude towards those who preach reformed doctrines to young believers and then watch those young believers fall away. Christians do not need TULIP, they need the cross.

 

[Netpreacher]

Sir, I do not dismiss Hebrews or any other book of God's Word, but you must weigh what you read in one part of Scripture to the whole of Scripture.



If you know anything about Calvinism, then you know that we are against teaching that simple recitation of a prayer will save you.

If you ever took a history class, then you know that Calvinists over the centuries have been ridiculed for their strict moral codes. We believe we can contribute nothing to our salvation. It is only by the mere pleasure of God and by His Grace. Yet we teach that the true Christian will stirve to please God because a true Christian is a new creature. Not saying that we are made perfect. Far from it, but we teach that the true Christian will strive for perfection out of a love for God.




John 10
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.

We are in the Father's hands. Who can remove us? It is the Father who grants faith. Does He take it from us?

True, many have made a false confession and are not truly saved. While they may show zeal for a while, they will fall away. Some shall perform even great works, but they are not saved. They may even have false assurance because God has blinded their eyes from the truth, but they shall meet the destruction which we all deserve.

Thanks be to God that salvation rests not in our hands but in His hand. For if it were left up to us, we should surely all fall into hell.

Calvinism started eternal security. Eternal security is preached as gospel in pretty much every major denomination in the world.

God has given us someone to put our faith and trust in, He does not arbitrarily give us faith. We are given a measure of faith according to the measure we mete out.

The Bible does not tell us that those who confessed but fell away were not saved in the first place. Simon Magus was baptised, but then fell away into what is now called simony, and eventually invented Gnosticism. If you have scriptures that say the contrary, I would like to see them.

 

[Netpreacher]

Jesus said, "you didn't choose me, I chose you." That pretty much sums it up in a nutshell. We do not have control of the universe.

God may know everything, but this is because He is outside of time. We, however, are inside of time and space, therefore we do not know what will happen.

God has made us in His image, and one of those qualities which He has put in us is free agency. God can do what He wants, and we can do what we want as well. If we conform our will to His will, then we will live forever. If we don't, we will suffer the eternal damnation of hell. God is glorified not by mere robots which He creates, but by those who willingly choose Him to serve, worship, adore, and obey.

He will receive His glory from those who choose Him; but then again, He already knows who will choose Him!