Calvinism...."he cannot sin, because he is born of God"

[Dale]

Godzchild in post#31:
<< I believe that my spirit cannot sin for where there is no law there is no sin! I am made blameless in Jesus Christ, because I'm born of God.

My flesh, however, is still waiting to be redeemed. So my flesh is going to sin - all sin and fall short of the glory of God. >>


Ministers have told me that to make a sharp distinction between flesh, or body, and spirit, or soul, is to embrace a viewpoint found in Greek philosophy. The Greek view is foreign to the Hebrew view, which does not separate body and soul, but views them as intrinsically connected, in this life and in the life to come. To say that the body, or flesh, sins but the soul remains free of guilt is to reject the Hebrew background of the Christian religion.

 

[greeker57married]

Holo

Why reduce the simple facts to greek semantics?

I'm saved, I mess up, I'm still God's child. I fail and fall, He picks me up. I'm clean in His sight. The end.

Because the New Testament was original written in Koine Greek. Many Bible truths hang on the Greek tenses. The New testament writers expressed truth in Greek. To see exactly what one is saying in a foreign language, one must understand what they are saying in that language.
This is not semantics. The tenses in the Greek emphasize important truth in what the writer is saying.

God Bless
John

 

[Egghead]

Dear Egghead
A Christian cannot finally and completely aspostasize.

AGAIN.....Hebrews 6 and 10 say youre dead wrong.
Apostacy of one who was a "sanctified partaker of the Holy Spirit" is exactly what the writer of Hebrews warned about.

Its funny, but what you all are saying when you reject Hebrews is that the Holy Spirit has NO clue who is actually ''born again'' and who isnt.
He just inhabits anyone who LISTENS to the gospel, whether they REALLY repent and stick with it or not.

Im sorry, but that is the most absurd Ive even contemplated in my life.

Yes I believe, as you do about Hebrews 6 & 10. but the Christian does not lost his salvation. but judgement, chastizement and death may result.

I very strongly suggest you REREAD it then.
both of those chapters make it a VERY serious and ultimately deadly thing to apostate oneself

4"For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God, and put Him to open shame."

taken with Hebrews 10, Id say this person is well on his way to hell.

not forsaking the assembling of ourselves, just as is the custom for some, but exhorting one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.

For if we sin willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth,there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery zeal being about to devour the adversaries.

Anyone disregarding the law of Moses dies without compassions on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

By how much worse punishment, do you think, will he be deemed worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, and has regarded as common the blood of the covenant, by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?

For we know Him who said, "Vengeance is Mine; I will repay," says the Lord. And again, "The LORD will judge His people."

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God!
(Heb 10:25-31 EMTV)

apostate and you have NO sacrifice covering your sins.

 

[Dale]

Woody:
I notice that in post #3, under Rejection of Errors, your Predestinationist Synod proceeds to condemn every sensible interpretation of Christianity.


The points under Rejection of Errors quote the Epistles, the Epistles, and the Epistles, as Calvinists do. Only point VII flirts with the Gospels by misinterpreting the Parable of the Sower. The Parable actually warns that the Gospel can be crowded out of a person's life by the cares of the world.


Do Calvinists ever read any part of the Bible except the Epistles? If so, do they ever take it seriously?

 

[frumanchu]

Do Calvinists ever read any part of the Bible except the Epistles? If so, do they ever take it seriously?

Not only do we read it and take it seriously, but we understand the Epistles in the larger context of the whole of Scripture.

I daresay we're much less likely to dismiss whole portions of the Old Testament in particular than many of our other "evangelical" brothers and sisters.

 

[CCWoody]

Woody:
I notice that in post #3, under Rejection of Errors, your Predestinationist Synod proceeds to condemn every sensible interpretation of Christianity.

Thanks be to God that the Dutch Protestants didn't fall for humanistic "sensible interpretations" and remained true to Biblical interpretations.

Do Calvinists ever read any part of the Bible except the Epistles? If so, do they ever take it seriously?

No, we never read anything except the Epistiles and we don't even take those seriously. Actually, all we really ever read is The Institutes of Calvin's Religion. It is our Bible. We really weren't serious when we discovered that the Catholic Church was not Reformable and we really weren't serious when we had this big rave called the Reformation.

Seriously!!!

But, seriously, you might ought to read up on the Snyod of Dordt and figure out what was happening in the Protestant Reformation at the time. You might just figure out that you really aren't a Protestant like your icon suggests but an anti-Reformation believer in the spirit of those who fought against the Protestant Reformers.

 

[Egghead]

I daresay we're much less likely to dismiss whole portions of the Old Testament in particular than many of our other "evangelical" brothers and sisters.

only whole portions containing warnings that dont fit your theology.

 

[Bulldog]

My flesh, however, is still waiting to be redeemed. So my flesh is going to sin - all sin and fall short of the glory of God.

Flesh itself is not sinful, that is a gnostic view. It is that it is weak and overcome by sin, but the Christian has been freed from this bondage.

 

[frumanchu]

only whole portions containing warnings that dont fit your theology.

On the contrary, we don't shy away from giving thorough explanations of precisely how they fit with the numerous promises in God's Word that true believers will be preserved in their faith.

 

[cygnusx1]

On the contrary, we don't shy away from giving thorough explanations of precisely how they fit with the numerous promises in God's Word that true believers will be preserved in their faith.

absolutely right Brother (where have you been , you have been missed)

yet when dealing with natural reason , don't you find it hard work ....... "it can't be both .... it just can't be ,, rant rant rant "

 

[Egghead]

On the contrary, we don't shy away from giving thorough explanations of precisely how they fit with the numerous promises in God's Word that true believers will be preserved in their faith.

So, can you sin or not?

 

[cygnusx1]

So, can you sin or not?

only when I see trolls ....... I sin a bit then.

 

[Egghead]

only when I see trolls ....... I sin a bit then.

Thats the pot calling the kettle black.

These threads were going along very smoothly....I even learned a few things in them.......then YOU came in with the off topic derailing.

Please return to the topic of the thread or DONT POST !

 

[cygnusx1]

Thats the pot calling the kettle black.

These threads were going along very smoothly....I even learned a few things in them.......then YOU came in with the off topic derailing.

Please return to the topic of the thread or DONT POST !

I think your last pm is banning material!

oddly enough, my PM box has had to be emptied 3 times in the last 24 hours because my ''game'' is going so well.

Lots of folks see right thru this calvinist trash now....thanks to a little effort

mr troll .......... go get some help ....... it will do you some good!

 

[Egghead]

I think your last pm is banning material!

then you should have KEPT it where I sent it......as a PRIVATE message.

mr troll .......... go get some help ....... it will do you some good!

This is the last time Im asking you to stop harassing me.

BE an adult and stick to the topic of the thread.

 

[cygnusx1]

then you should have KEPT it where I sent it......as a PRIVATE message.

[/color]


This is the last time Im asking you to stop harassing me.

BE an adult and stick to the topic of the thread.

too late you have been reported!

 

[Egghead]

Flesh itself is not sinful, that is a gnostic view.

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
(Rom 8:3 KJV)

 

[greeker57married]

Egghead

AGAIN.....Hebrews 6 and 10 say youre dead wrong.
Apostacy of one who was a "sanctified partaker of the Holy Spirit" is exactly what the writer of Hebrews warned about.

Its funny, but what you all are saying when you reject Hebrews is that the Holy Spirit has NO clue who is actually ''born again'' and who isnt.
He just inhabits anyone who LISTENS to the gospel, whether they REALLY repent and stick with it or not.

Im sorry, but that is the most absurd Ive even contemplated in my life.

I have to read Hebrews in the context of what the Bible says in other places. I do not believe that a born again Christian can lose their salvation.

Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Joh 10:28 and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand.

Joh 10:29 My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

Quote:

4"For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God, and put Him to open shame."

taken with Hebrews 10, Id say this person is well on his way to hell

Heb 6:6 and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance

The childern of Israel at Kadesh-barnea stood off from God , it was impossible to renew them to a change of mind or attitude(repentance), with regard to their destiny, for God decreed that their carcasses should fall in the wilderness. hey next day they tried to repent of their sin of provocation and go into the promised land, but God had already said they would not enter His rest. They would die in the wilderness, but they were still the childern of God. A Christian can stand off from God to the point incurring God's chastizement and even death, but He or she is still a Christian.

The words "again crucify" or "crucify afresh" is a mistranslation of the Greek Word anastauroo which as A.T. Robertson points it is the old Greek word to "crucify". Hebrew Christians did not by their sin of "falling Away" which really means "falling aside," crucify Jesus afresh. They simply idenified themselves with His crucifiers.
"to open shame" The Christians ,with their attitude of neglect, were causing the lost to look with contempt upon Jesus and his redemptive purpose. Unfaithful christians in every generation bring about this same attitude of the World against Jesus. But Christians do not lose their salvation.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins,

There sin is the sin of standing off from God, their is no evidence of apostasy in the usual sense of the word. for such Christian their remains no sacrifice for sins.(plural) Man is redemeed from sin not sins.Israel was redeemed from slavery in Egypt. But tabernacle sacrifices were for the purpose of removing sins which made the people unfit for divine fellowship or service. Jesu redeemed his people from sin in a once for all sacrifice, 1john 1:7. A sacrifice that resulted with his ministry within the veil which was to free them from sins that hindered their fellowship with God and their service. After Israel sinned there was not sacrifice to restore that generation to the divine mission. If Christians in any generation provoke God in sinning willfully against their spiritual destiny, they too will be cut off from the redemptive purpose of God. But they will not loss their salvaton. How can you loss something that is eternal?

Heb 10:27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which shall devour the adversaries.

They shall not be lost, but will experience " divine anger marked by fire" (A.T. Robertson).

Heb 10:28 A man that hath set at nought Moses law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses:

Heb 10:29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant wherewith he was sanctified an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

The sin referred to here is not forsaking God, but not going on with God to growth and maturity. IN turing from their spiritual destiny christian do tread in comtempt on the Son of God. They idenify themselves with the crucifiers in in not going on with God to maturity.
But they do not loss their salvation.

God Bless
John

 

[edie19]

Not only do we read it and take it seriously, but we understand the Epistles in the larger context of the whole of Scripture.

I daresay we're much less likely to dismiss whole portions of the Old Testament in particular than many of our other "evangelical" brothers and sisters.

I agree with you - while I don't love the term (because we are Christians and Calvin wouldn't like it either) the Calvinists I know (of which I am one) would say that the entire Bible is Christ-centric. While some may be more understandable and there are different types of literature included (i.e. narrative vs poetry), I believe we weight it pretty equally.

 

[Egghead]

I have to read Hebrews in the context of what the Bible says in other places. I do not believe that a born again Christian can lose their salvation.

I agree.....we cannot ''lose'' salvation.
losing it isnt what Hebrews 6 or 10 is refering to.

The childern of Israel at Kadesh-barnea stood off from God , it was impossible to renew them to a change of mind or attitude(repentance),

Uh, sorry, but we're discussing christians in Hebrews 6 and 10.
It calls them ''sanctified'' and partakers of the Holy Spirit''




this one is utterly amazing.

Heb 10:27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which shall devour the adversaries.

They shall not be lost, but will experience " divine anger marked by fire" (A.T. Robertson).

I think that passage speaks for itself.