Calvinism, explained.

[ToBeLoved]

Christ came to seek and to save the lost, that is the lost sheep of Christ who are of Abraham's seed, who are of God's promise to Abraham according the the Spirit and not according to the flesh.

Matthew 15:24
But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

This has never changed, this is still the truth of where Christ is sent.
Any one who has faith is proven to be of that house of Israel, that is Abraham's seed.
Galatians 3:29
And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

IF your an heir, then your an inheritor of eternal life according to God's promise HE made to Abraham.
And that is to where Christ is sent, only to the lost sheep of that house of Israel, which you are if you belong to Christ.
The lost sheep belong to Christ and He goes and finds them, since He is their good shepherd, which is the parable of the lost sheep.

Who does Christ help to salvation?
The seed of Abraham.
Hebrews 2
13 And again:

“I will put My trust in Him.”

And again:

“Here am I and the children whom God has given Me.”

14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham. 17 Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.18 For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.

However, how does any sheep get lost without Jesus/God predestining said sheep to get lost?

So why would Jesus predestine lost sheep when He says NOONE can remove them from My hand those that the Father has given Me?

Why then would that sheep even be considered lost? And why is Jesus going to get them?

Predestination has to work with the whole Bible.

 

[sdowney717]

However, how does any sheep get lost without Jesus/God predestining said sheep to get lost?

So why would Jesus predestine lost sheep when He says NOONE can remove them from My hand those that the Father has given Me?

Why then would that sheep even be considered lost? And why is Jesus going to get them?

Predestination has to work with the whole Bible.

The word exists in the bible, so then predestined is true, otherwise why would it be in there at all?
None can remove them from His hand, since they are predestined. And why not?
Why argue against what is so clearly spelled out?
Why does the bible also say, no one seeks for God?
If no one seeks for God, then not a single person would ever be saved, since they would refuse Christ completely.

But people do get saved since Christ seeks His lost sheep.
Yet still no one seeks for God. So then those who do get save are chosen by God for Christ.

10 As it is written:

“There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.

 

[sdowney717]

Those who persist in saying they sought God, speak contrary to what God says about them.

Those who say they understand spiritual things of God and Christ, before God tells them, God will call them liars. Those things He must tell them about, mankind has no ability to know anything about God and Christ on his own.
If God does not seek you, you will never come to God.
And ALL those Christ came to save, get saved, since as it says in Romans 8, all the called get glorified, since those He calls in this way to salvation He also had predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ.
Do these verses in any way show any possibility of failure of these called ones to obtain salvation?

28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

You might say, God predestined all to be conformed to Christ, but they refuse Christ, but see v30 won't allow for that understanding, since whom He called those He justified, there is no 'but', or except for clause. No one called is left out, since it is written they are all justified that He called.

 

[ToBeLoved]

The word exists in the bible, so then predestined is true, otherwise why would it be in there at all?
None can remove them from His hand, since they are predestined. And why not?
Why argue against what is so clearly spelled out?
Why does the bible also say, no one seeks for God?
If no one seeks for God, then not a single person would ever be saved, since they would refuse Christ completely.

But people do get saved since Christ seeks His lost sheep.
Yet still no one seeks for God. So then those who do get save are chosen by God for Christ.

10 As it is written:

“There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.

I answered this much earlier in the thread.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Those who persist in saying they sought God, speak contrary to what God says about them.

Those who say they understand spiritual things of God and Christ, before God tells them, God will call them liars. Those things He must tell them about, mankind has no ability to know anything about God and Christ on his own.
If God does not seek you, you will never come to God.
And ALL those Christ came to save, get saved, since as it says in Romans 8, all the called get glorified, since those He calls in this way to salvation He also had predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ.
Do these verses in any way show any possibility of failure of these called ones to obtain salvation?

28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

You might say, God predestined all to be conformed to Christ, but they refuse Christ, but see v30 won't allow for that understanding, since whom He called those He justified, there is no 'but', or except for clause. No one called is left out, since it is written they are all justified that He called.

It's the excluded, not the included.

 

[EmSw]

The word exists in the bible, so then predestined is true, otherwise why would it be in there at all?
None can remove them from His hand, since they are predestined. And why not?
Why argue against what is so clearly spelled out?
Why does the bible also say, no one seeks for God?
If no one seeks for God, then not a single person would ever be saved, since they would refuse Christ completely.

But people do get saved since Christ seeks His lost sheep.
Yet still no one seeks for God. So then those who do get save are chosen by God for Christ.

10 As it is written:

“There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.

As it is written:

Isaiah 55
6 Seek ye the Lord while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

Is God lying here? Who will God have mercy on in verse 7? It is those who forsake their wicked way, those who forsake their unrighteous thoughts, and those who return to the Lord.

Exodus 33:7
And Moses took the tabernacle, and pitched it without the camp, afar off from the camp, and called it the Tabernacle of the congregation. And it came to pass, that every one which sought the Lord went out unto the tabernacle of the congregation, which was without the camp.

We have people who sought the Lord in this passage.

Psalm 119:10
With my whole heart have I sought thee: O let me not wander from thy commandments.

David not only sought God, but he sought Him with his whole heart.

Don't take a passage out of context to make a doctrine.

Now, I noticed you didn't answer this question: Why would God predestine His sheep to be lost? You may believe no one can take you out of His hand, but you forgot, God can predestine you to be lost.

 

[EmSw]

Those who persist in saying they sought God, speak contrary to what God says about them.

Those who say they understand spiritual things of God and Christ, before God tells them, God will call them liars. Those things He must tell them about, mankind has no ability to know anything about God and Christ on his own.
If God does not seek you, you will never come to God.
And ALL those Christ came to save, get saved, since as it says in Romans 8, all the called get glorified, since those He calls in this way to salvation He also had predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ.
Do these verses in any way show any possibility of failure of these called ones to obtain salvation?

28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

You might say, God predestined all to be conformed to Christ, but they refuse Christ, but see v30 won't allow for that understanding, since whom He called those He justified, there is no 'but', or except for clause. No one called is left out, since it is written they are all justified that He called.

I have been called one that is lost on this forum. If you believe what you presented, your doctrine falls to pieces.

sdowney, did God predestine you to be a lost sinner, to walk in darkness, and a child of the devil?

 

[sdowney717]

As it is written:

Isaiah 55
6 Seek ye the Lord while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

Is God lying here? Who will God have mercy on in verse 7? It is those who forsake their wicked way, those who forsake their unrighteous thoughts, and those who return to the Lord.

Exodus 33:7
And Moses took the tabernacle, and pitched it without the camp, afar off from the camp, and called it the Tabernacle of the congregation. And it came to pass, that every one which sought the Lord went out unto the tabernacle of the congregation, which was without the camp.

We have people who sought the Lord in this passage.

Psalm 119:10
With my whole heart have I sought thee: O let me not wander from thy commandments.

David not only sought God, but he sought Him with his whole heart.

Don't take a passage out of context to make a doctrine.

Now, I noticed you didn't answer this question: Why would God predestine His sheep to be lost? You may believe no one can take you out of His hand, but you forgot, God can predestine you to be lost.

It does say 'let him return unto the Lord', so the covenant between them had prior been established, that would be the OC, all of those verse were written to Israel under a covenant with God.

God's people can and do seek the Lord, but not the people of the world. God had established His covenant with Israel. He is the one who brought them to the mountain.

 

[tulipbee]

So tulipbee, did God predestine you to be a lost sinner, a child of wrath, and slave to the devil?

He chooses his people. I have a personal relationship with my lord. It's our business.

 

[EmSw]

It does say 'let him return unto the Lord', so the covenant between them had prior been established, that would be the OC, all of those verse were written to Israel under a covenant with God.

God's people can and do seek the Lord, but not the people of the world. God had established His covenant with Israel. He is the one who brought them to the mountain.

Ezra 4
1 Now when the adversaries of Judah and Benjamin heard that the children of the captivity builded the temple unto the Lord God of Israel;
2 then they came to Zerubbabel, and to the chief of the fathers, and said unto them, let us build with you: for we seek your God, as ye do;

The adversaries of Judah and Benjamin sought God.

Hosea 7:10
And the pride of Israel testifieth to his face: and they do not return to the Lord their God, nor seek him for all this.

The children of Israel did not seek God. How is it the children of the covenant did not seek Him?

 

[EmSw]

He chooses his people. I have a personal relationship with my lord. It's our business.

So, can you answer the question? Did God predestine you to be a lost sinner, to walk in darkness, and to be a child of the devil?

 

[EmSw]

I wonder why no Reformed person will answer this question. I've asked many times.

Did God predestine you to be a lost sinner, to walk in darkness, and be a child of the devil?

 

[tulipbee]

So, can you answer the question? Did God predestine you to be a lost sinner, to walk in darkness, and to be a child of the devil?

Answered in multiple ways but your question is a made made one. Pay attention. God runs all things. Don't separate God from anything. You want to trick me in saying there is a place God isn't. It won't work. I don't give man made answers. Kicking Adam out of the garden effected all of us

 

[EmSw]

Answered in multiple ways but your question is a made made one. Pay attention. God runs all things. Don't separate God from anything. You want to trick me in saying there is a place God isn't. It won't work. I don't give man made answers. Kicking Adam out of the garden effected all of us

I see you seem to be confused and can't answer the question.

What's wrong with questions asked by man? Are you above answering them?

 

[tulipbee]

I see you seem to be confused and can't answer the question.

What's wrong with questions asked by man? Are you above answering them?

You ask too many questions one after another like we all have nothing better to do.

 

[EmSw]

You ask too many questions one after another like we all have nothing better to do.

Really tulipbee? If you have other things to do, why are you on here?

But don't worry, you are not alone; no one seems to want to answer this question.

 

[sdowney717]

I wonder why no Reformed person will answer this question. I've asked many times.

Did God predestine you to be a lost sinner, to walk in darkness, and be a child of the devil?

What your talking of is the opposite of election, reprobation.
And yes God determined both.

God did not determine one who would become a born of God saved person a child of the devil. The parable of the wheat and the tares clearly spells out they are distinct.

They are known by their birth are they not?
When one is born into a family, to that family they then belong. Those born of God to the family of God, they are then obviously not children of the devil.

God determined that all would be confined under sin that He might have mercy to all that He wills as it states in Romans 9.
Every single person born in the flesh has a destiny of hell since they are dead, unless they become born into the family of God, alive in the Spirit.

Apparently few of the disputers here actually believe what God has said about these things.

Matthew 13
34 All these things Jesus spoke to the multitude in parables; and without a parable He did not speak to them, 35 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying:

“I will open My mouth in parables;
I will utter things kept secret from the foundation of the world.”

The Parable of the Tares Explained
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”

37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man.
38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one.
39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels.
40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age.
41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

 

[EmSw]

What your talking of is the opposite of election, reprobation.
And yes God determined both.

By determined, do you mean predestined?

Were the ones who crucified Jesus, predestined, determined, or reprobated?

Others on here say EVERYTHING was predestined, down to the smallest detail. Is this not your belief also?

God did not determine one who would become a born of God saved person a child of the devil. The parable of the wheat and the tares clearly spells out they are distinct.

So, are you saying you were never a child of the devil? Jesus said the following:

John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

What were you determined to be before you received Him and believed on His name?

They are known by their birth are they not?
When one is born into a family, to that family they then belong. Those born of God to the family of God, they are then obviously not children of the devil.

To which family were you physically born into? Since you seem to say you were physically born into the family of God, why did you behave and become a slave to sin and the devil? I thought all Calvinists believed man is born depraved and separated from God. Do you not hold to this?

Are you also saying children of the devil can never become children of God?

God determined that all would be confined under sin that He might have mercy to all that He wills as it states in Romans 9.
Every single person born in the flesh has a destiny of hell since they are dead, unless they become born into the family of God, alive in the Spirit.

Again, do you mean predestined when you say determined? Is there any difference?

So sdowney, are you saying God determined you to be born, confined under sin, and lost with a destiny of hell?

Apparently few of the disputers here actually believe what God has said about these things.

Matthew 13
34 All these things Jesus spoke to the multitude in parables; and without a parable He did not speak to them, 35 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying:

“I will open My mouth in parables;
I will utter things kept secret from the foundation of the world.”

Okay, I believe this, but what does it have to do with being determined by God to be born depraved and confined by sin?

One more thing, have you ever lied? If so, then who is your father?

The Parable of the Tares Explained

36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”

37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man.
38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one.
39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels.
40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age.
41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

Explain this parable in light that everyone is born confined to sin, lost, and has a destiny of hell.

I also ask you to explain how one is a son of God before he believes and receives Jesus.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Matthew 13
34 All these things Jesus spoke to the multitude in parables; and without a parable He did not speak to them, 35 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying:
“I will open My mouth in parables;
I will utter things kept secret from the foundation of the world.”
The Parable of the Tares Explained
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”
37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man.
38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one.
39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels.
40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age.
41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

So the 'good seeds' proves your point? I don't think so. You must have something better than these verses.

 

[GillDouglas]

I wonder why no Reformed person will answer this question. I've asked many times.

Did God predestine you to be a lost sinner, to walk in darkness, and be a child of the devil?

There is nothing that God did not plan for my life. Just because I would say "Lord willing, we'll find a new home" or "Lord willing, we'll have more children" etc. does not mean that He didn't already plan these things for my life before I was even born. He did predestine that I would walk the first 30 years of my life as a lost sinner, walking in darkness, doing work that was of the devil. He also predestined that at a certain point in time my life would change, and I would no longer be lost. Amazing grace, how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me. I am grateful that I was not left in darkness. I am grateful of the plan He has for me. I am grateful that He is in control.