Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
I don't know of anywhere in the history of evangelism where the evangelist used predestination to explain salvation to a person to whom the gospel was being preached.
Can you provide one such sermon except for us where that was done? I'd love to know about it.
Thanks!
That' the problem. You haven't read Calvin and so really don't know anything at all about him. Therefore, you have no real insight into the connection between Calvin and TULIP, which is right our of Calvin. Therefore, you really don't know who are or are not Calvinists. If they are not at all following Calvin, them no, they are not Calvinists. Your label is inappropriate and irrational.I honestly could care less what Calvin says. I believe TULIP because I think it is Biblical, not because it is Calvinical. I don't know any Calvinist who holds John Calvin as an authority, nor do I know any Arminian who holds Jacob Arminius as an authority.
I am with you 100% here.It's perfectly understandable why you leave predestination out during evangelism. When any reasonable person hears it, you would be laughed out the door. Converts to Reformed Calvinism would dry up.
I never understood why not tell a person the truth about predestination - God has either ordained you to heaven or hell. You have no choice, as this would 'interfere' with God's pre-determination of your life.
Thanks!
Yes, I suppose it is quite irrational to call myself a Calvinist because I believe the Five Points of Calvinism. I honestly never knew you needed to read Calvin and believe his every word to be called a Calvinist. If you'd have read my previous post then you would know that I'm going to stop calling myself a Calvinist. Subsequently, I also suppose one cannot call themselves an Arminian if they do not actually read and follow Jacob Arminius.That' the problem. You haven't read Calvin and so really don't know anything at all about him. Therefore, you have no real insight into the connection between Calvin and TULIP, which is right our of Calvin. Therefore, you really don't know who are or are not Calvinists. If they are not at all following Calvin, them no, they are not Calvinists. Your label is inappropriate and irrational.
And that sir, is based totally upon predestination.
1. STOP telling me what I deny or DO NOT deny. Bearing false witness is a HUGE crime as far as Jesus is concerned. PACK IT IN.
2. Predestination as in the Arminian version. Good.
3. Here is the trolls post
And now you say in your previous post "Maybe it's because Calvinism doesn't need Calvin."
I am wondering if you are one and the same poster!
Just because you claim it, doesn't make it so. You obsession with predestination will be your undoing....
I didn't claim it; salvation by predestination is a Calvinist concept and belief.
You DID claim it, everyone can see that you did. Why are you so insistent that Calvinists acts the way YOU think they ought to act? You clearly do not understand where predestination fits into Calvinism, and as an obvious anti-Calvinist, you are the least qualified to be making any demands (and you HAVE been making demands) on Calvinists.
Who is more credible in this discussion? A Calvinist who knows his theology, or someone like you who demonstrably does NOT know said theology?
You have no authority or unction to be telling Calvinists what they believe, or how they must act. You find it incredulous that I don't constantly think about predestination, which clearly shows that you do not understand either the concept, or how it fits into Calvinist Theology. Why does that bother you so much? Just let it go! And stop denying what you clearly have done. You may fool others, but I'm not fooled.
You say that, but yet you do. You say God didn't plan anything. God doesn't any have plans for the individual. God cannot chose who is made for specific tasks, roles, and even salvation. According to you, God is limited by men's action and freedom. It is you and those like you who give more authority to men, and very little to God in regards to realms more suited to God (i.e. Salvation).That calls for a good laugh, since no one can put limits on God (other than deluded theologians).
It may seem unfair because it is true. You cannot say God is Sovereign and then place limits on Him based on a man's desire for some idea of freedom. We cannot act outside of our nature, as fallen men we are not free. Freedom in Christ means He has us right where He had planned us to be, doing His work. We didn't do anything to bring us to this point. Only by His gracious all-knowing will, through Providence and works by His 'hands' (you, me, the saved sinners, and the unbelievers) by way of the Holy Spirit, do we continue to do things for His glory. God is in full control, and it is a very good thing He is.Please. This is patent rhetoric. You cast those who disagree with you in the position of somehow seeking to denigrate God as somehow less than a "true" God. Well, that is entirely unfair precisely because it by no means obvious that a God who controls every detail is "more of a God" in the right sense. It seems self-evident to me - and I suggest to most - that a God who willingly chooses the "risk" of creating humans with a measure of free will is engaged in a grander, if riskier, creation project.
A God who insists on creating "puppets" with no self-determining freedom rightly strikes us as somewhat juvenile.
We can perhaps discuss this. But clearly what you post is not remotely fair.
Strawman, of course. I never claimed God is sovereign in the sense that you mean that He is. And you are clearly being unfair debate when you speculate about what my, or anyone else's, "desire" is.It may seem unfair because it is true. You cannot say God is Sovereign and then place limits on Him based on a man's desire for some idea of freedom.
This is an easy claim to make but I suspect that if you try to actually make a Biblical argument that our fallenness - which I acknowledge - robs us of all self-determining freedom, you will not succeed.We cannot act outside of our nature, as fallen men we are not free.
.
But at least I'll know that ToBeLoved and you aren't just making things up to portray the Calvinist message in a poor light.
Thanks.
Yes, you claimed you were a double predestinarian and Supralapsarian Calvinist. But your following posts indicated the opposite. And when called out on it you let people up quite a few rabbit trails before getting a good thread in 'Baptists' closed down. A calvinist 'twin1954' and an Arminian 'me' had reached common ground. Was this a first in the history of CF ? Anyone.I'm sure you are. I've already had a falling out with you, and I don't feel like doing it again.
Wrong again - BTW calling someone a liar is a violation of CF rules. Please edit your offence and remove it.It is very clear that if someone doesn't fit your narrow view of Calvinism then they are considered liars. I've had enough of people on this forum using Calvin and other Calvinists against me as if they had any bearing on what I believe.
Good for you. Many don't go along with 'L'. There are many kinds of 'TD'- Nobdysfool explained thous well a few posts back. Point - which version of TULIP.Let's stop and take a breather... I'll stop calling myself a Calvinist, and since I've stopped I really have no label.
You want to know what I believe? Here is what I believe:
1. The five Solas of the Reformation: Sola Fide, Sola Gratia, Solus Christos, Sola Scriptura, and Soli Deo Gloria
2. The five points of Calvinism: Total Depravity, Unconditional election, Limited atonement, Irresistable grace, and Perseverance of the saints
I was not wondering or in the least bit interested.In case you are wondering, belief in the Bible (Sola Scriptura) and the gospel (Solus Christos, Sola Fide, Sola Gratia) are found in the five Solas.
May I kindly suggest you do read Calvin and mainstream Calvinist and Arminian authors.I don't read Calvin or any other man's work: just the Bible. So let's not get worked up about whether I'm a Calvinist or not. I don't care what I am called anymore, as it just get's me into arguments.
Predestination is NOT the foundation of Calvinism. The T in the TULIP is the hinge on which the whole gate swings. Total Inability. Not UTTER Inability. Not UTTER Depravity. Total, meaning that the totality of man, his whole being, is affected by sin. Man is born in sin, a sinner at birth by nature, a nature which manifests itself at the earliest opportunity. Adam and Eve reproduced after their own kind, as with every other living thing. Their offspring were as they were, sinners.
Everything else in Calvinism builds off that that core teaching, the Total Depravity of man, which prevents him from being able to please God in anything he does on his own.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?