Does not God say that He gives a measure of faith to all. So is the measure of faith different for all?
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Does not God say that He gives a measure of faith to all. So is the measure of faith different for all?No one, least of all me, said that a prayer for increased faith was wrong or would not be answered. What has been said are two things:
1) An unregenerate person i.e. "sinner" does not, of his our accord ask God for faith. Sinners don't seek God.
2) Someone with even a weak faith has been granted that faith by God, and he may, and should ask God to increase his faith, and he can expect an answer to that prayer, although, in my own experience, that is a dangerous prayer to pray. Gaining faith in God often comes by losing something/everything else, and that is a painful process, but of infinite worth.
A former sinner, saved by Grace.
Which, by definition, makes them unsaved, and therefore unheard.
You're engaging in circular reasoning. You basically just said it is not the unsaved whom God does not hear, but the unsaved whom God does not hear.
I didn't say that at all.
What I said is that if an unsaved person thinks Jesus Christ existed, but is lacking the faith to know for sure, that that person can pray to God for more faith.
So there is a degree of faith/belief there already.
How do you know that that person is not being called by God through that miniscule belief and the desire to pray?
Your position is irrational because the person already has a small, but significant showing of faith in that they desire to pray for more faith.
We are not talking about someone who prays when their spouse is dying with a hope that by a miracle there is a God and that God will help them.
Jesus said that no one who comes to me will I cast away.
No one, least of all me, said that a prayer for increased faith was wrong or would not be answered. What has been said are two things:
1) An unregenerate person i.e. "sinner" does not, of his our accord ask God for faith. Sinners don't seek God.
2) Someone with even a weak faith has been granted that faith by God, and he may, and should ask God to increase his faith, and he can expect an answer to that prayer, although, in my own experience, that is a dangerous prayer to pray. Gaining faith in God often comes by losing something/everything else, and that is a painful process, but of infinite worth.
He also said, "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. . ." (John 6:44)
Any indication of faith, even a tiny bit, is an indication of the Father's drawing, not the person's seeking.
Matthew 17
19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, why could not we cast him out?
20 And Jesus said unto them, because of your unbelief:
The disciples were filled with unbelief. How did they lose the gift of faith from God?
Paul said he was the chief of sinners; how is it you say you are not a sinner?
Do you not sin anymore?
Here's what I said - 'It's not the unsaved whom God does not hear, but those who hold iniquity in their hearts, and do not cease to do evil.'
Saved and unsaved alike are sinners. It is those who hold iniquity in their hearts, and continue to do evil God will not hear. Hopefully one day, you will see the importance of Ezekiel 18:31 one day.
No matter what I answered, you would be trying to make me look bad.
Yeah, I know that you think that Ez. 18:31 is the central, most important scripture in the bible. That doesn't mean that it is, though.
You try to make a distinction between the unsaved, and "those who hold iniquity in their hearts and do not cease from sin".
What is the difference??? Both sides of the distinction are unsaved, because they are both doing the exact same things!
Unsaved is as unsaved does.
Just so you understand, I am a sinner saved by Grace.
Please show me where I did not use replies that match my conversation? The post number is fine, I will find it.My reply matches your conversation. No one is going to force you to answer. Put your thinking cap on. We would appreciate if you use the quoting right so we can link back to your conversations your responding to. No links and we're not going to follow you.
We can't click on your past posts nor those you're replying to cause you responded in email style instead of tol's quoting features. Maybe you're using an app. Anyway, I can't work with your posts but go have fun anyway. Good dayPlease show me where I did not use replies that match my conversation? The post number is fine, I will find it.
Also, show me where you feel there should have been links to follow and what those links should have been, in your opinion?
If you prove me wrong, I will be more than happy at your suggestion, to put my thinking cap on.
The only time God gives faith to an unbeliever is to drawn that person to believe on His Son and be saved. If He does that - they will come to believe on the Son.I think if an unsaved person is having trouble finding enough faith to trust that Jesus is real and died for them on the cross as Savior, then I believe if they pray for faith, God will give them more faith in Him.
He gives a measure of faith to all believers.Does not God say that He gives a measure of faith to all. So is the measure of faith different for all?
I believe that there is both a case for some reasoning behind the belief that we are called before we are born, BUT in the context that God is always perfect and God because He is not human He is not held to time as we are in our 3D reality.The only time God gives faith to an unbeliever is to drawn that person to believe on His Son and be saved. If He does that - they will come to believe on the Son.
I suppose that a person who has been given faith to draw them to the Son could pray a prayer for more faith as part of the process of coming to confess Christ.
So long as you are talking about such a person and not a person who has not been given to the Son by the Father - your reasoning is correct IMO.
If you are talking about the non-elect of the world praying for "more" faith - then you you are not correct according to the scriptures IMO.
It makes sense and it's a way to explain a few things outside of the Reformed way of explaining them.I believe that there is both a case for some reasoning behind the belief that we are called before we are born, BUT in the context that God is always perfect and God because He is not human He is not held to time as we are in our 3D reality.
In that sense, I see God as being Omnipresent and Omnipotent and knowing all, from beginning to end (as we see time).
With this, I think God breathed the truth into the scriptures, BUT THAT we do not understand not being held to time in our brains, so we do not fully understand what God is saying.
In the fact that God knows all, I think we were elect. In our earthly experience, I think we live out our own free-will choices in real-time.
Does that make sense?
You're brave enough to say, " Hey god !!!! Wake up !! I earned it and deserve it so get your butt up and save me ! ! !" Such bravery like yours would get struck by lighting and deep fried. You better go hide !
Christians
Matthew 17
19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, why could not we cast him out?
20 And Jesus said unto them, because of your unbelief:
The disciples were filled with unbelief. How did they lose the gift of faith from God?
It makes sense and it's a way to explain a few things outside of the Reformed way of explaining them.
But I don't believe it's what the scriptures teach.
Be that as it may - it is not correct to say that all of fallen mankind has faith. Is that what you are saying?
I wouldn't say they were FILLED with unbelief, they were just in need of faith beyond what they had. Unbelief, and faith, are not 100% or 0%. Every one of us has a mixture of faith and unbelief. Some things regarding God we believe without question (have faith in), other things we still are not certain about. That uncertainty constitutes unbelief in that area. They didn't lose the gift of faith, as you so inaccurately put it, they just ran into a situation where their faith was not yet formed or strong. the gift of faith from God is not an unspecific, one-size-fits-all, total faith for anything gift.
So, how much unbelief can a man have, and still be saved? How much faith must he have to be saved? Since you want to put faith/unbelief in proportions, tell me the proportion man must have to be saved.
That is not what I was saying, AND YOU KNOW IT WASN'T!
No man has 100% faith. Do You?
The kind of faith being talked about here is not saving faith, because if a man is saved, that's not what was in question. The example was about the Disciples being sent out as Jesus sent them to perform signs and wonders, and they had trouble with part of it. That didn't mean they were not saved, salvation wasn't the issue, it was the faith to perform the signs and wonders that Jesus commissioned them to do, that they were having trouble with, and only with certain parts of it.
To try to reduce this to "how much unbelief can a man have, and still be saved?", is a willful refusal to actually engage constructively with the topic, but just looking for "gotcha!s", and ways to make others look bad for not agreeing with you. Stop acting like a juvenile and actually engage in constructive conversation, or just remain silent.
You know the saying, "It is better to remain silent and be thought to be a fool, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt"...?
You DO understand that there are more kinds of faith than saving faith, don't you?
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