Calvinism, explained.

[Thursday]

I know that there is nothing good within me that would merit God's favor.

This is a major problem with Calvinism.

Romans 12
1Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. 2Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

Gal 1:10
Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ.

 

[Albion]

The Reformed have effectively shut up the kingdom of heaven against men, reprobates they call them. Beware of their leaven.

Talking like there's some Reformed conspiracy to harm people or a preference for that to be the case in God's universe doesn't move me in the least. I expect that's the case with other readers, too. It's all a matter of what the Bible says, so if you can't prove your point by Scripture, your arguments are just going to fall on deaf ears.

 

[Thursday]

Talking like there's some Reformed conspiracy to harm people or a preference for that to be the case in God's universe doesn't move me in the least. I expect that's the case with other readers, too. It's all a matter of what the Bible says, so if you can't prove your point by Scripture, your arguments are just going to fall on deaf ears.

Scripture says multiple times that God wants all men to be saved.

Scripture says that we will be judged by our actions, not just our faith.

Scripture says that sin can shipwreck our faith.

Calvinism denies these scriptural truths.

 

[EmSw]

Talking like there's some Reformed conspiracy to harm people or a preference for that to be the case in God's universe doesn't move me in the least. I expect that's the case with other readers, too. It's all a matter of what the Bible says, so if you can't prove your point by Scripture, your arguments are just going to fall on deaf ears.

Is there any harm to those who God does not choose, as their belief predestines and condemns them to hell? Perhaps you agree with it, and even believe it also.

I guess you didn't read what Jesus said of those who shut up the kingdom of heaven to man.

 

[nobdysfool]

Scripture says multiple times that God wants all men to be saved.

Scripture says that we will be judged by our actions, not just our faith.

Scripture says that sin can shipwreck our faith.

Calvinism denies these scriptural truths.

Calvinism does not deny any of those things. Your information is completely void of truth. You don't know what you're talking about. You've been lied to about Calvinism. Stop bearing false witness.

 

[supersoldier71]

You don't even know if you are saved. Calvinists have no impact on their own salvation, let alone the salvation of others.

I don't know why you bother posting here given your dogma.

How, please tell, do you KNOW you are saved? Because YOU made a decision? Because YOU are worthy of the blood of Christ? Because YOU are good?

Now tell me where Scripture accepts any of those as sufficient for entry to Heaven.

Take your time, I'll wait.

Make sure that your proof texts aren't sermons to believers on the sanctification and holiness.

I'll keep waiting.

Your assertion is SILLY. Calvinist have been saying in post after post (after post) that we pray because God is in control.

You all have failed to answer WHY you pray if God has already done all He is willing to do.

@EmSw, God bless you, but your argument is with Scripture, not with me:

"In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God's gracious choice. But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace. What then? What Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened...."

"...but those who were chosen obtained it...." (italics added for emphasis and clarity)"...and the rest were hardened...." Notice, they did not make themselves hardened, they were hardened: passive-subjective.

Jesus' condemnation of the Pharisees was based on their foolish legalism and hypocrisy; they saddled people with false righteousness based on the observance of silly traditions. Man, that actually sounds like another group I could name, but I'll refrain for the purposes of this discussion. Context matters brother.

Your faulty logic begins with the thinking that everyone may be saved. Scripture and lots of them, state otherwise. Look again at context. In most cases, we'll have a Jewish speaker, speaking to recently converted Jewish Christians, who hadn't quite grasped the concept that they are NOT righteous based on descent from Abraham, but by the blood of Christ. The good news for you is that if you earnestly seek God, you belong to God...because HE ordained it. The further good news for you is that you will never fall from His hands.

And to all you anti-Calvinists, your arguments have devolved into straw-men. Why pray for the lost? Straw-man: we are commanded to, and because God has a say, right? Do we agree that God has some say in the matter? If you answer no, then you are the fools and hypocrites. Straw-man 2: How do we know we're saved? How do YOU? Probably the same way I know it = straw-man. Straw-man 3: Somebody who was a Calvinist treated me poorly. We're all sinners who struggle to obey the first and second great commandments every day. Are you--any of you without sin and not in need of mercy? Okay, that's not really a straw-man fallacy, but it cannot be considered a valid criticism.

I'm sorry about that but there are only two possibilities, and let me be clear about this: either that person's sins are covered by the blood of Christ, in which case, they are forgiven, or they are not, in which case, they will go to Hell. I dare you to try and put an exclamation point on that.

So I'll tell you what, give a Biblical reply to the question I've posed several times: why pray if the result is not in God's hands?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

This is a major problem with Calvinism.

Romans 12
1Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. 2Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

Gal 1:10
Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ.

This is part of the great Calvinist conspiracy: We have come to know the grace of God, and we want others to know it as well. We have come to understand that the gospel is not just the ABCs of the faith, but the A-Z of the Christian life. We are convinced that God saves, and He saves completely.

 

[GillDouglas]

You don't even know if you are saved. Calvinists have no impact on their own salvation, let alone the salvation of others.

I don't know why you bother posting here given your dogma.

I continue to post in order that you (and others like you) might understand the sovereignty of God, in ALL things. This is a basic biblical teaching that all things are under God's rule and control, and that nothing happens without His direction or permission. God works not just some things but all things according to the counsel of His own will (Eph. 1:11). His purposes are all-inclusive and never thwarted (Isa. 46:11); nothing takes Him by surprise. The sovereignty of God is not merely that God has the power and the absolute right to govern all things, but that He does so always and without exception. In other words, God is not merely sovereign in principle, but sovereign in practice.

 

[tulipbee]

Do you not see the good news in that EVERYONE is able to be saved? Whereas, in Reformed beliefs, not everyone is afforded this wonderful blessing.

Jesus said this in Matthew 23:13 -
But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men;

This is exactly the doctrine the Reformed believe. They shut up the kingdom to those who are 'foreordained' to eternal damnation.

John Calvin in his "Institutes," Book III, chapter 23,

"....Not all men are created with similar destiny but eternal life is foreordained for some , and eternal damnation for others. Every man, therefore, being created for one or the other of these ends, we say, he is predestined either to life or to death."

The Reformed have effectively shut up the kingdom of heaven against men, reprobates they call them. Beware of their leaven.



Here again, is one of their own explaining how the kingdom of heaven is for only a 'select' few. Others are predestined to hell with no chance of entering the kingdom. Please be wise as serpents and harmless as doves, for wolves are roaming about. And, when wolves are cornered, they fight viciously to protect their own.

The Bible makes it clear that ...without the regeneration
of God... "whosoever" WON'T believe (John 3:3).

None except those Born Again by the Holy
Spirit (~not~ by mere human decision) ever
believe. On our own, we will invariably
reject Christ ...because unregenerate man is a
"slave of sin" (John 8:34 NASB, NKJ, ISV).

Regarding to your works-righteousness,
adding a little semi-Pelagian "faith"
in the mix don't change much.

Calvinism is not a cult. Calvinism is the best thought-out
system of doctrine and soteriology that Jesus Christ has
been pleased to bless mankind with on this sinfilled earth.

 

[Thursday]

Calvinism does not deny any of those things. Your information is completely void of truth. You don't know what you're talking about. You've been lied to about Calvinism. Stop bearing false witness.

You are mistaken. Calvinism teaches that God does not want all men to be saved. Calvinism teaches that God has predestined some men to Hell.

This is part of the great Calvinist conspiracy: We have come to know the grace of God, and we want others to know it as well. We have come to understand that the gospel is not just the ABCs of the faith, but the A-Z of the Christian life. We are convinced that God saves, and He saves completely.

What you know has nothing to do with your salvation according to Calvinists.

 

[Thursday]

How, please tell, do you KNOW you are saved? Because YOU made a decision? Because YOU are worthy of the blood of Christ? Because YOU are good?

For Christians, salvation is the goal, not a one time event.

Not even Paul claimed to know his eternal state. Judgement is for God.

The bible tells us to strive for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.


Why strive?

 

[supersoldier71]

For Christians, salvation is the goal, not a one time event.

Not even Paul claimed to know his eternal state. Judgement is for God.

The bible tells us to strive for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.


Why strive?

Judgement IS for God, which is what we've been trying to get across all along.

Holiness as you put it, is only available to believers, who are themselves, the elect of God. Can an unbeliever be holy? Of course not.

The belief and faith are gifts from God the source from whom all blessings flow.

We strive because we strive for SANCTIFICATION, to be more Christ-like, because we're acutely aware of how far we are from the perfect example of Christ, who died not just for us, but BECAUSE of my personal sins. We strive because we love God and we know how seriously our sin offends Him. We strive because we do not take lightly the price that was paid to redeem us: the blood of Christ, which bought us (and brought us) out of the bondage of sin and death. We strive because we are grateful! We strive because we are humbled that we have not just been saved, but given a gift that even Adam didn't have, being adopted into God's household as junior brothers to Christ Himself! We strive because sin denies us the power of the Holy Spirit in our lives and steals away our assurance--not our salvation--but our confidence in Christ. We strive because that is our lot in this life, to run our race like we're trying to win. Don't misunderstand me: the perfect gift cannot be lost, but we are compelled by the Holy Spirit to take nothing for granted.

Do all aspects of it make sense? Do I understand every aspect of the three-times holy, infinite God? Nope. But that doesn't make it untrue, it means that I'm a very small man trying to comprehend someone who is INFINITE.

""For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways," declares the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.…"

I pray for unbelievers because I hope that God--who judges all--will pour out His blessings of faith and belief on them, in accordance with His will.

So AGAIN I'll ask: why do YOU pray for others if you do not believe that God will not act upon them?

 

[Thursday]

Judgement IS for God, which is what we've been trying to get across all along.

Holiness as you put it, is only available to believers, who are themselves, the elect of God. Can an unbeliever be holy? Of course not.

The belief and faith are gifts from God the source from whom all blessings flow.

We strive because we strive for SANCTIFICATION, to be more Christ-like, because we're acutely aware of how far we are from the perfect example of Christ, who died not just for us, but BECAUSE of my personal sins. We strive because we love God and we know how seriously our sin offends Him. We strive because we do not take lightly the price that was paid to redeem us: the blood of Christ, which bought us (and brought us) out of the bondage of sin and death. We strive because we are grateful! We strive because we are humbled that we have not just been saved, but given a gift that even Adam didn't have, being adopted into God's household as junior brothers to Christ Himself! We strive because sin denies us the power of the Holy Spirit in our lives and steals away our assurance--not our salvation--but our confidence in Christ. We strive because that is our lot in this life, to run our race like we're trying to win. Don't misunderstand me: the perfect gift cannot be lost, but we are compelled by the Holy Spirit to take nothing for granted.

Do all aspects of it make sense? Do I understand every aspect of the three-times holy, infinite God? Nope. But that doesn't make it untrue, it means that I'm a very small man trying to comprehend someone who is INFINITE.

""For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways," declares the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.…"

I pray for unbelievers because I hope that God--who judges all--will pour out His blessings of faith and belief on them, in accordance with His will.

So AGAIN I'll ask: why do YOU pray for others if you do not believe that God will not act upon them?

We need God's grace to follow his will. So, of course I pray for others and ask them to pray for me.

However, his grace doesn't negate our responsibility to strive for holiness.

 

[tulipbee]

For Christians, salvation is the goal, not a one time event.

Not even Paul claimed to know his eternal state. Judgement is for God.

The bible tells us to strive for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.


Why strive?

Funny how he ask me about my salvation and he answers
his salvation with a no salvation.
Believe! How can a dead man believe? He is gifted with
life that enables him to act and for his heart to respond. The faith to
believe is a gift of life from God . . .number one step in salvation!
Paul, We are not disagreeing with the Scriptures . . .we merely
say that God must bring the dead sinner to life; he must be born again first,
before he can exercise belief, faith, repentance, prayer, obedience, etc.

That is the Calvinistic view. That God saves us first, then we respond
appropriately as evidence that a miracle has happened. This gives God
the glory for our salvation, not man.

 

[Aldebaran]

Funny how he ask me about my salvation and he answers
his salvation with a no salvation.
Believe! How can a dead man believe? He is gifted with
life that enables him to act and for his heart to respond. The faith to
believe is a gift of life from God . . .number one step in salvation!
Paul, We are not disagreeing with the Scriptures . . .we merely
say that God must bring the dead sinner to life; he must be born again first,
before he can exercise belief, faith, repentance, prayer, obedience, etc.

That is the Calvinistic view. That God saves us first, then we respond
appropriately as evidence that a miracle has happened. This gives God
the glory for our salvation, not man.

Then why is going to Hell described in the bible as "eternal punishment"? Does God punish people for being the subject of His own failure to save us, or does He punish us because we willfully rejected the gift of salvation?

 

[Thursday]

That is the Calvinistic view. That God saves us first, then we respond
appropriately as evidence that a miracle has happened. This gives God
the glory for our salvation, not man.

I know that is the Calvinist view, but I believe the Christian view.

A man reaps what he sows according to the bible.

Calvinists deny the bible and revere the ideas of a man, John Calvin, instead.

 

[supersoldier71]

We need God's grace to follow his will. So, of course I pray for others and ask them to pray for me.

However, his grace doesn't negate our responsibility to strive for holiness.

So by praying for God's grace to follow His will, you're praying for Him to do something more than He's already done, to exert influence over an unbeliever's "free will".

Look, I'm not trying to play stump-the-chump with you at all. The topic is too serious and I hope you understand that while think you're wrong, I DO NOT believe you to be a "chump".

What I'm saying is that we pray because who else should we bring our petitions to? But don't get it twisted, when we pray for the lost, we're asking for an intervention.

We're asking God to make someone a new creature, born again of the Spirit.

Well let's unpack that.

When we are born, is it a single moment, or is it a constant struggle? When we are born, there is pain involved. Struggle. Effort. But then we're born, and although we will eventually suffer a physical death, we cannot be un-born.

One can no more lose their spiritual lives (after they've been born again) than they can re-enter the womb.

God bless.

 

[Thursday]

So by praying for God's grace to follow His will, you're praying for Him to do something more than He's already done, to exert influence over an unbeliever's "free will".

Of course. We need God's grace to follow his will, and he will give it to us.

Luke 11:13
If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"

Luke 22:32
But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers."

Matt 7:11
11"If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!

Romans 15:30
I urge you, brothers and sisters, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit, to join me in my struggle by praying to God for me.

Ephesians 6:18
And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord's people.

 

[sdowney717]

Then why is going to Hell described in the bible as "eternal punishment"? Does God punish people for being the subject of His own failure to save us, or does He punish us because we willfully rejected the gift of salvation?

God punishes all unregenerate mankind who do this,

Romans 1
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

HOWEVER, just prior to this, Paul says this about those who are regenerate are those who are justified, that they live by faith. And is for all who believe.

The Just Live by Faith
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.
17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”

 

[Aldebaran]

God punishes all unregenerate mankind who do this,

Romans 1
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

HOWEVER, just prior to this, Paul says this about those who are regenerate are those who are justified, that they live by faith. And is for all who believe.

The Just Live by Faith
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.
17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”

Ok, so it sounds like certain people are punished by God in Hell because we chose not to believe, rather than the Calvanist notion that it's because those people were simply not chosen by God to be saved, and therefore predestined to be sent to Hell.