Calvinism, explained.

tulipbee · Feb 8, 2016

EmSw said:
What does 'foreordain' mean?

Arminians believe that "foreknow" means to passively "foresee", to obtain information about the future before it happens, while Calvinists believe that it means to "forelove", to actively select for a purpose.

Foreordination is the same as predestination which means that God ordains what will happen in history and in salvation. It means to appoint beforehand. The word, "foreordained," is used in the KJV in 1 Pet 1:20. See the following verses regarding predestination:

Rom. 8:29, "For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the first-born among many brethren.

"Eph. 1:11, "also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will."

Thursday · Feb 8, 2016

GillDouglas said:
What you fail to realize is that obedience and faith comes with the gift of salvation from God Himself. He provides all the means necessary to return safely and eternally among His presence, and the means for us to 'perform' as His child while we are still here. What you fail to realize is that any self-derived 'obedience and faith' is sin, and has no worth. What you believe in is Karma, not Christ, in hopes that all your 'good works' will set your right before God. What you fail to realize is that Christ's death doesn't require any of your 'good works' added to it and your ONLY hope is in Him.

Obedience is an act of will, it cannot be given to someone else.

GillDouglas · Feb 8, 2016

Thursday said:
Obedience is an act of will, it cannot be given to someone else.

Then tell me how exactly does a sin-ridden enemy of God with no desire or ability to know Him become obedient?

supersoldier71 · Feb 8, 2016

Thursday said:
Obedience is an act of will, it cannot be given to someone else.

That is true. Rather, God gives us the ability to obey by breathing us from death into life. Before that sovereign act, it is impossible: we're spiritually dead, our righteous acts are as filthy rags.

Thursday · Feb 8, 2016

GillDouglas said:
Then tell me how exactly does a sin-ridden enemy of God with no desire or ability to know Him become obedient?

God's grace reaches out to all men.

Just as all die in Adam, all have been made alive in Christ.

Thanks to God's grace, the ball is now in our court. Jesus stands at the door and knocks.

supersoldier71 · Feb 8, 2016

GillDouglas said:
Then tell me how exactly does a sin-ridden enemy of God with no desire or ability to know Him become obedient?

Really good question!!!

supersoldier71 · Feb 8, 2016

Thursday said:
God's grace reaches out to all men.

Just as all die in Adam, all have been made alive in Christ.

Thanks to God's grace, the ball is now in our court. Jesus stands at the door and knocks.

There are no Scriptures that assert this...none that can be reconciled to other Scripture at least.

Thursday · Feb 8, 2016

supersoldier71 said:
There are no Scriptures that assert this...none that can be reconciled to other Scripture at least.

You are mistaken, which is why you have been swayed by Calvin.

1 Cor 15:22
For as indeed in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

John 12:32
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."

Romans 5:18
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.

supersoldier71 · Feb 8, 2016

Thursday said:
You are mistaken, which is why you have been swayed by Calvin.

1 Cor 15:22
For as indeed in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

John 12:32
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."

Romans 5:18
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.

You have been swayed by an incorrect view of "all men", meaning all nationalities and tribes in these contexts.

By your reading, God's call can fail to have it's desired effect OR you're asserting universal salvation. God cannot fail at anything.

Ever.

God bless

Thursday · Feb 8, 2016

supersoldier71 said:
You have been swayed by an incorrect view of "all men", meaning all nationalities and tribes in these contexts.

By your reading, God's call can fail to have it's desired effect OR you're asserting universal salvation. God cannot fail at anything.

Ever.

God bless

I showed you that you were mistaken.

I assume you are one of those who believes that ALL MEN means SOME MEN.

I am not asserting universal salvation, I am asserting universal grace, which is what scripture teaches.

If God wanted to give ALL MEN the grace necessary for salvation, could he do it?

sdowney717 · Feb 8, 2016

This one here
1 Cor 15:22
For as indeed in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.

Is only for those in Christ, that is all saved people are in Christ and it is to then that the word 'all' points. all in Christ, not all men universely.
All unsaved men are 'in Adam', but only saved believers are in Christ.

Thursday · Feb 8, 2016

sdowney717 said:
This one here
1 Cor 15:22
For as indeed in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.

Is only for those in Christ, that is all saved people are in Christ and it is to that the word all points. all in Christ, no all men.

In Adam, all die. In Christ, all will be made alive.

Clear enough, unless your dogma forces you to twist the words.

sdowney717 · Feb 8, 2016

Romans 5:18
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.

Not universal anything, Christ's death brings about the salvation of believers, not unbelievers. Christ's righteous act was the sacrifice of Himself, so that believers will have eternal life. So the 'all' is only all of the elect, all of His church, not all people are justified by faith, many do not believe, so have no justification or salvation . To read it the other way would be contrary to all sound doctrine of Christ. This is what Peter warns about those who twist Paul's writings as some are difficult to understand.

16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

Thursday · Feb 8, 2016

sdowney717 said:
Romans 5:18
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.

Not universal anything, Christ's death brings about the salvation of believers, not unbelievers. Christ's righteous act was the sacrifice of Himself, so that believers will have eternal life. So the 'all' is only all of the elect, all of His church, not all people are justified by faith. To read it the other way would be contrary to all sound doctrine of Christ. This is what Peter warns about those who twist Paul's writings as some are difficult to understand.

1 Tim 4:10
For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.

Those who are not saved have no one to blame but themselves.

Jesus is their savior even if they reject him.

nobdysfool · Feb 8, 2016

Thursday said:
God's grace reaches out to all men.

Just as all die in Adam, all have been made alive in Christ.

Thanks to God's grace, the ball is now in our court. Jesus stands at the door and knocks.

If all men have been made alive in Christ, there is no need for one to be saved. If they are made alive, they are already saved. The verse properly understood is this:

Just as all in Adam die, so all in Christ have been made alive. The comparison is based on who we are in. We were all born in Adam, therefore we all are destined to die. Those who are in Christ have been made alive, and therefore do not share any longer in Adam's destiny.

All men are born in Adam, but only those who are born again are in Christ.

.

sdowney717 · Feb 8, 2016

John 12:32
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."

Simply that if anyone is drawn they are drawn by Christ who is God.
That word 'all' there means also individually, so the drawing is to individuals
all = G3956
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G3956&t=KJV
defined as individually drawn, each is drawn, or even some of all types.
This actually makes sense since Christ taught that all God draws come to Christ in John 6:44-45

So you can not teach that Christ draws all yet fails since some do not come to Christ.
No it must mean this is an individual drawing, not a universal one or all would come to Christ and be saved.

individually
1. each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
collectively
1. some of all types

sdowney717 · Feb 8, 2016

Thursday said:
1 Tim 4:10
For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.

Those who are not saved have no one to blame but themselves.

Jesus is their savior even if they reject him.

Simply that there is no other name available for men to be saved. Does not imply a universal salvation. And yes, people go to hell for their sins, they die in their sins if they do not believe that Christ is HE. (God, etc..)
Acts 4
11 This is the ‘stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.’12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

sdowney717 · Feb 8, 2016

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Simply that the gospel is preached throughout the world. Actually it is God's graceful permission that we live and move and have our being.
The command to all mankind is to repent and believe in Christ. Acts 17, the offer is of course genuine. But the capacity of all men to repent and believe is not granted to all mankind.

To some the gospel is hidden as Paul teaches.
2 Corinthians 4
3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,
4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.
5 For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus’ sake.
6 For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

v6 shows that those who do believe, God has shone His light in and on them, so that they believe.
While leaving others to remain blinded in their minds by Satan as taught in v4.
The devil can not prevent anyone from being saved, if he could then none would believe. So then God is the one determining who gets His light shone onto them, with the result being their salvation.
All are blinded by Satan, unless God chooses to show mercy and save them, by revealing to them Christ, He wills that they know Him and Christ and then they are saved without any uncertainty.

Luke 10
Jesus Rejoices in the Spirit
21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in the Spirit and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight. 22 All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.”

23 Then He turned to His disciples and said privately, “Blessed are the eyes which see the things you see; 24 for I tell you that many prophets and kings have desired to see what you see, and have not seen it, and to hear what you hear, and have not heard it.”

ToBeLoved · Feb 8, 2016

Thursday said:
God's grace reaches out to all men.

Just as all die in Adam, all have been made alive in Christ.

Thanks to God's grace, the ball is now in our court. Jesus stands at the door and knocks.

If all have been made alive in Christ why are not all Christians?

Thursday · Feb 8, 2016

nobdysfool said:
If all men have been made alive in Christ, there is no need for one to be saved.

.

Wrong.

A man must respond to this grace. Just because a man is made alive you can't assume he will go on living. Sin leads to death. Sin destroys faith.

Jesus wants us to pick up our cross AND follow him.

The bible is quite clear. Your dogma is not clear.

Calvinism, explained.

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