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Calvinism and its Secret Universalism

Discussion in 'Debate with a Calvinist' started by dóxatotheó, Jun 9, 2021 at 2:36 PM.

  1. dóxatotheó

    dóxatotheó Orthodox Church Familia Supporter

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    Correct I am debating a Calvinist
     
  2. dóxatotheó

    dóxatotheó Orthodox Church Familia Supporter

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    Not relevant to what you literally quoted because I agree
    define this more
     
  3. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    There is no interference in the choosing according to one's changed disposition.
     
  4. dóxatotheó

    dóxatotheó Orthodox Church Familia Supporter

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    Explain more for me
     
  5. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    "he that chooses is held responsible"

    A pivot on your "choose."

    The only choice that makes a difference is faith in the person and work of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sin and right standing with God's justice.


     
  6. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    The usual objection: to "free will" being the object of "interference."
     
  7. dóxatotheó

    dóxatotheó Orthodox Church Familia Supporter

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    Don't know much on this surface yet and I will admit ignorance.
     
  8. dóxatotheó

    dóxatotheó Orthodox Church Familia Supporter

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    I agree and good discussion I will study more let God prevail God bless
     
  9. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

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    You said God didn't try to save them. Which is wrong, first off. And if he did save them I against their will, that's by force.
     
  10. Thuycidides

    Thuycidides New Member

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    God choosing certain people isn't love and its him being partially

    God loves all men and would have all men saved, and Jesus' blood is propitiation for the sins of the whole world, But:

    He only chooses those in Christ Jesus for His personally born children.
     
  11. Hammster

    Hammster Willy and the Poorboys are playing. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Okay. And?
     
  12. Neostarwcc

    Neostarwcc We are saved purely by the work and grace of God. Supporter

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    Where? When Is the last time you've seen a Calvinist say everybody will be saved? It's not true. It's never been true and I'm extremely against universalism because it's plain not true and taught nowhere in the Bible. Jesus never taught it, the Prophets never taught it, its not true. They taught the doctrine of Election but Election is not applied to everyone because scripture teaches over and over again that God did not elect everyone.

    Not everyone will be saved. There will be lost people or we would be denying the book of Revelation as well. Just, plain not true.
     
  13. public hermit

    public hermit social troglodyte Supporter

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    I understand. I still like his argument.
     
  14. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

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    And that's not love.
     
  15. Hammster

    Hammster Willy and the Poorboys are playing. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Saving someone from eternal torture is love, wouldn’t you say?
     
  16. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

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    Sure. And that offer has been extended to all.
     
  17. Hammster

    Hammster Willy and the Poorboys are playing. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    And saving them all would not be forcing all to love Him.
     
  18. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You are right --not news to me. And thanks for chiming in. I was hoping to draw the reasoning out of him. I wanted him to tell me what he meant by free will, and the logical implications were to follow.
     
  19. Jay Sea

    Jay Sea ................ Ke ĉiuj vivu

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    The Catholic Church is in a sense Universalist in the teaching on baptism: Baptism of desire etc.
    In LOve
    Jay Sea
     
  20. John Mullally

    John Mullally Well-Known Member

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    Why would Jesus command his followers to love our neighbors as ourselves, if God himself does not love our neighbors?

    Matthew 5:43You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor’r and ‘Hate your enemy.’ 44But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,s 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Do not even tax collectors do the same? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even Gentiles do the same? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.​
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2021 at 1:39 AM
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