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Present the verses. one at a time.Why don't you prove it by explaining the verses and by backing up your interpretation with the context for a change.
My claims are as crisp and clear as the 5 points of Calvinism.
I clearly state the first 3 points agree with scripture. The other 2 are close.You said you believe in only 3 points and the other 2 need some work. You also did not say which of the 3 points you believe in, either. Again, .... “mystery.”
Present the verses. one at a time.
I clearly state the first 3 points agree with scripture. The other 2 are close.
You do not understand what is taking place here. These were largely saved Jews still under the Old Covenant. Peter is telling them to repent from dead works of the law and embrace the New Covenant which he was preaching.“Repent ye therefore, and be converted,” (Acts of the Apostles 3:19).
If memory serves me correctly, you said before that these folks were already saved. But you did not offer any Scriptural proof to back up that claim. All we know about repentance is dealing with salvation. Jesus said repent or perish (Luke 13:3). So this suggests that repentance is a part of salvation. So Peter was telling these people to repent in order to be saved. Peter said repent and BE CONVERTED. Peter did not say wait for God to convert you so that you can repent. That is what you would like for this text to say but it simply does not say that. You have to twist the plain reading of the Scriptures here in order to make your Theology work.
If you knew about the 5 points of Calvinism (basic Christian knowledge) you would already have an answer.You said in post #362, I quote: “I believe the first 3 points of the 5 are spot on. The other 2 need some work.”
Anyways, what are those three points you believe in?
You do not understand what is taking place here. These were largely saved Jews still under the Old Covenant. Peter is telling them to repent from dead works of the law and embrace the New Covenant which he was preaching.
If you knew about the 5 points of Calvinism (basic Christian knowledge) you would already have an answer.
They were believers. Also called "devout" in the opening passages.But where is the proof in Scripture of this claim? I ask you to show me proof in the Bible that they are saved Jews under the Old Covenant. Is this a part of the context? Is there a cross reference to support your claim?
Needing work does not say how much work they need.No. You said you believe in 3 and 2 of them need some work. I was asking you which 3 you solidly believe in.
Only the born again can desire to repent. The rest love sin too much.
Born in sin:
- Psalms 51:5 - “Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.”
- Psalms 58:3 - “The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.”
- Job 14:4 - “Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one.”
Romans 5:18 says,
“Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.”
Also, the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). Babies are not created to not die. Babies die because they have been tainted by the sin of Adam.
In addition, there is the imputation of Christ's sacrifice, as well. When we seek forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ, and we believe that He died for our sins, He was buried, and was risen three days later on our behalf, the redemption of Christ is applied to our lives in that moment. Our continuing in the faith like walking in the light (i.e. loving our brother) is a part of Christ's blood cleansing us of all sin, as well (1 John 1:7 cf. 1 John 2:9-11). This is important to understand to understand because if we gain righteousness via by Christ, then we gain sin by Adam.
They were believers. Also called "devout" in the opening passages.
They believed (were saved) or they would not have sought answers and obeyed Peter.A person can be a devout in a false religion and be unsaved. A Jew can be devout in what they beleive and be unsaved. So that's not proof that they are saved. You need something more substantial here. Something like.... “And the souls of those Jews who abided in Christ needed to be told to repent by Peter and be converted.” But even this is a contradiction in your belief system. For conversion according to you happens BEFORE repentance. See, that is why what you believe is silly. You are simply not reading and believing this text.
If you knew about the 5 points of Calvinism (basic Christian knowledge) you would already have an answer.
This may be slightly derailing the current derailed conversation, but if anyone would mind humoring me, I would appreciate it.
I've heard the above statement a fair amount throughout my Christian life.
But, how reliable of a statement is it? I mean, one would certainly hope it's true. One would certainly hope the Holy Spirit is actively guiding us, instructing us, keeping us from false beliefs. But it's hard to see that statement as an actual representation of reality.
First, I can use myself as an example as I'm sure all of you can use yourselves as an example. I've been a Christian for many decades. While my core beliefs haven't changed, my secondary beliefs certainly have. But if the Holy Spirit is always to remind us of what is right, why have my beliefs changed?
And what of my beliefs that have changed maybe 2 or 3 times on a topic? And what of my beliefs as they are right now? I love the Lord. I have an active relationship with Christ. I actively read Scripture, meditate, and disciple others. I have accountability partners. I'm involved in Church. I lead my family. I don't have any habitual sin in my life. Am I to assume that all my beliefs as they stand today are correct? That seems arrogant to think, doesn't it?
What if someone on this forum changes my mind about something theologically, does that mean that the Holy Spirit wasn't previously guiding me on that subject?
And just look at the Titans of our faith. Just take two of your theological hero's of faith. Even if they are similar on 95% of what they believed, I'm sure we could find something they disagree on. We don't even need to look at a Baptist vs a Presbyterian, we can look at a Baptist and a Baptist to fine nuanced disagreements. And yet they would be people we consider truly godly men.
Put 4 humble, godly men in a room together and you might find 4 different opinions about something theological - and all 4 men will tell you they've prayed and sought the Lord.
So in reality, where is the Holy Spirit in guiding?
I already addressed Psalms 51:5. David was saying that he was conceived in sin meaning his parents were sinners at the time of his conception. I don’t see how a sperm cell and an embryo are capable of sin. You’ll have to explain that to me because I can’t even fathom the concept of it.
You said:Psalms 58:3 says the wicked are estranged (gone away, a stranger or foreigner) from the womb.
Yes I can’t imagine an unborn child being capable of knowing God yet unless God has first made Himself known to the child although I think John the Baptist may be an exception in his case seeing how he seemed to acknowledge Christ while still in Elizabeth’s womb when Mary came to visit her. Definitely an interesting situation there. Notice in Psalms 58:3 he said they go astray as soon as they are born. He doesn’t say they have gone astray before they are born. Now I wouldn’t say they are born telling lies as soon as they exit the womb. What child says anything as soon as they exit the womb. I think that just an exaggeration or a figure of speech. Exaggerations and even sarcasm are evident in the scriptures several times brother.
You said:“The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?"”
John 10:31-32 NASB
Romans 5:18 Because of Adam’s offense judgement came upon all man. Judgement for what exactly? Their deeds or Adam’s deeds? Do the scriptures say each man will be judged according to Adam’s deeds or do they say each man will be judged according to his deeds? I know you know the answer to this.
If you come to Christ it's because the Father draws you. You wouldn't consider it otherwise.John 6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
Does the Father draw all people at some point in their life? And what about before the Father draws a person, are they able on their own, contrary to this verse, to come to Christ?
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