Calvinism and Abortion

[Dave L]

What difference which one you believe, one is a person questioning you on something, one side is telling you what you must believe.

Why is it to men that creeds matter and they sometimes get held over a persons head like they were greater than we were cause oh they were so much holier ? Because they had more understanding than we are able to have today? Sorry just found your question endearing in that, either choice you make is believing man.

We most certainly will believe what we want to believe. That is what it falls down to of course the more we search for the truth, we can most certainly find that truth in the Lord Yeshua Christ, who came, died, and was risen again by God.

Try fixing your car without a service manual. The creeds are like factory service manuals on topics found in the bible. Proven true by intense debates with heretics. You should read them at least for discussion purposes.

 

[Dave L]

If you attack free will in regards to salvation, chances are you hold to some form of Calvinism.

I believe the first 3 points of the 5 are spot on. The other 2 need some work.

 

[Dave L]

We are to preach the Word and not hide it.

But it's not true unless it conforms to scripture. Calvinism conforms to the historic gospel. The Church rejected free will as heresy.

 

[Dave L]

I don't need to prove anything to you. Your theology is not my theology, nor do I think either of us will change our minds.

You continue to believe as you do and I will do the same, when I get to Heaven I will ask around for you and then maybe we'll have a big laugh all this.

Two different Christs?

 

[mlepfitjw]

Try fixing your car without a service manual. The creeds are like factory service manuals on topics found in the bible. Proven true by intense debates with heretics. You should read them at least for discussion purposes.

Thank you for getting back with me, Dave. Your suggestion is a good one, though it's out my hands when it comes down to the creeds, though a few books that are here in my room mention creeds and how they are ultimately just doctrines of men, people tend to believe and hold on in accordance to their own measured subjective faith.

For me it is God is the authority, and we just live and love God and others, which love expresses itself over knowledge which can make some people feel as though they are superior at least in my own self I have been that way before in my knowledge looking down towards others.

 

[Dave L]

Thank you for getting back with me, Dave. Your suggestion is a good one, though it's out my hands when it comes down to the creeds, though a few books that are here in my room mention creeds and how they are ultimately just doctrines of men, people tend to believe and hold on in accordance to their own measured subjective faith.

For me it is God is the authority, and we just live and love God and others, which love expresses itself over knowledge which can make some people feel as though they are superior at least in my own self I have been that way before in my knowledge looking down towards others.

A doctrine is a conclusion about what scripture says. There are false doctrines and true. The only way you can not have a doctrine is to not read the bible and form a conclusion about what it says. Every post you make is your doctrine stated on any given topic. But years of compiled knowledge proved through intense debate is a real asset when learning scripture.

 

[mlepfitjw]

A doctrine is a conclusion about what scripture says. There are false doctrines and true. The only way you can not have a doctrine is to not read the bible and form a conclusion about what it says. Every post you make is your doctrine stated on any given topic. But years of compiled knowledge proved through intense debate is a real asset when learning scripture.

You are right, of course we do have a bible chapter that expresses the true rendition of what sound doctrine looks like the scriptures from 1 Timothy 1:3-11 which is a letter with instructions to believers, to all believers.

• (Though it is subjective based on it being written to timothy who was to warn people of what not to get into, because the bride of Christ needed to be pure, and kept clean, with genuine faith from a pure heart, and clear conscience.)

You can find another scripture regarding this in 1 Titus 1:5-16, this again is a letter written by Paul given to Titus, and what he was told to do when it came to sound doctrine (1 Titus 1:9).

• Titus was told to keep what was taught to him, to teach elders who had to meet a certain criteria which was given by Paul to Titus, to teach in whatever area he was at teaching and was in at the time because of the historical things going on around after the resurrection of Christ Jesus, and persecution of Christians at that time which was can see Paul and others go through via; letters, and the acts of the Apostles.

@Dave L Every post you make is your doctrine stated on any given topic. But years of compiled knowledge proved through intense debate is a real asset when learning scripture.;

You are right about how our faith expresses itself overtime through learning scripture from the bible, and what sticks with us by the spirit, and also the things that can kill a person that comes from the word of God itself. (2 Corinthians 3:6)

The spirit will always remind us what is right.

• They say iron sharpens iron so it's good to clash up and bang against each other it seems, but I would disagree and say that debates and the intense debates, just leads to more contention and fighting with each other than really sitting down and having a discussion about how someone believes because it can not be done with just a quick glance of a response to; response back only to fight and bicker back and forth walking away having gained nothing from the discussion.

Thanks again for getting back to me Dave and hope you have a good morning.

 

[StillGods]

Unless born again, you cannot repent spiritually. It's just a work of the flesh that deceived people into thinking they repented. It's like changing one vice for another in other words. The wicked Jews always repented by their own free will under the Law. But the Law could not save. Sometimes greed could drive repentance under the law because it provided a material gain.

repentance is just repentance.
we either repent or we dont. it's simply a choice we make, we repent then believe.
you dont need to be born again to repent, all you need to be is a sinner to repent.

 

[Dave L]

repentance is just repentance.
we either repent or we dont. it's simply a choice we make, we repent then believe.
you dont need to be born again to repent, all you need to be is a sinner to repent.

Free will = repentance in the flesh = cannot save. Depends on Law that cannot save.

New Birth = repentance from the flesh. An effect of salvation based on grace, not law.

 

[StillGods]

Free will = repentance in the flesh = cannot save. Depends on Law that cannot save.

New Birth = repentance from the flesh. An effect of salvation based on grace, not law.

it's simply repent then believe.
God made it simple.

 

[Dave L]

it's simply repent then believe.
God made it simple.

But does repentance save you or does believing save you? You are back under Law if repentance does.

 

[SPF]

The spirit will always remind us what is right.

This may be slightly derailing the current derailed conversation, but if anyone would mind humoring me, I would appreciate it.

I've heard the above statement a fair amount throughout my Christian life.

But, how reliable of a statement is it? I mean, one would certainly hope it's true. One would certainly hope the Holy Spirit is actively guiding us, instructing us, keeping us from false beliefs. But it's hard to see that statement as an actual representation of reality.

First, I can use myself as an example as I'm sure all of you can use yourselves as an example. I've been a Christian for many decades. While my core beliefs haven't changed, my secondary beliefs certainly have. But if the Holy Spirit is always to remind us of what is right, why have my beliefs changed?

And what of my beliefs that have changed maybe 2 or 3 times on a topic? And what of my beliefs as they are right now? I love the Lord. I have an active relationship with Christ. I actively read Scripture, meditate, and disciple others. I have accountability partners. I'm involved in Church. I lead my family. I don't have any habitual sin in my life. Am I to assume that all my beliefs as they stand today are correct? That seems arrogant to think, doesn't it?

What if someone on this forum changes my mind about something theologically, does that mean that the Holy Spirit wasn't previously guiding me on that subject?

And just look at the Titans of our faith. Just take two of your theological hero's of faith. Even if they are similar on 95% of what they believed, I'm sure we could find something they disagree on. We don't even need to look at a Baptist vs a Presbyterian, we can look at a Baptist and a Baptist to fine nuanced disagreements. And yet they would be people we consider truly godly men.

Put 4 humble, godly men in a room together and you might find 4 different opinions about something theological - and all 4 men will tell you they've prayed and sought the Lord.

So in reality, where is the Holy Spirit in guiding?

 

[Isilwen]

Two different Christs?

Nope, same Christ, but your theology.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

But it's not true unless it conforms to scripture. Calvinism conforms to the historic gospel. The Church rejected free will as heresy.

I already posted Scriptures that refutes this thinking. But you will of course refuse to see what those verses say over what your church says.

 

[Dave L]

Nope, same Christ, but your theology.

The definitions are different. Only one can be true.

 

[Dave L]

I already posted Scriptures that refutes this thinking. But you will of course refuse to see what those verses say over what your church says.

You think they refute Calvinism because you have only your opinion of what they say to fall back on.

 

[SPF]

I already posted Scriptures that refutes this thinking. But you will of course refuse to see what those verses say over what your church says.

You do realize that the greatest Christian theologians of our history all held to a strong view of God's providence. This would include Augustine, Aquinas, Luther, Calvin, Edwards. And more recently Sproul, Piper, and Geisler.

But hey, you posted some Scripture that you interpret to refute their thinking. Maybe you should publish your Scriptural interpretations so this "debate" can finally be settled.

 

[Isilwen]

The definitions are different. Only one can be true.

You are correct in that, but neither of us is changing our mind.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You think they refute Calvinism because you have only your opinion of what they say to fall back on.

There is no point in having a discussion if you make mysterious muddy claims and then run away to not explain them when asked to give a proper explanation. I post Scripture to back up my claims. If anyone does not understand the verses I posted, I will make my best effort to explain it for them. But that is where we are different. I just see you as hitting the disagree button and then running away. I don't see how we can have a fruitful discussion involving the Scriptures if that is your tactic.

 

[Dave L]

You are correct in that, but neither of us is changing our mind.

The problem is we have two different Christ's by definition. One that saves. Another who encourages people to save themselves. It's back to Augustinianism and Pelagianism, condemned as heresy by the Council of Ephesus in 431. Augustinianism = Martin Luther, John Calvin, the entire host of Reformers.....