• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Calvinism and Abortion

Dave L

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 28, 2018
15,549
5,879
USA
✟580,230.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
You are here to argue. I'm not.
 
Upvote 0

BNR32FAN

He’s a Way of life
Site Supporter
Aug 11, 2017
25,846
8,377
Dallas
✟1,087,745.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married

Your confusing what Pelagian taught. She said babies are born innocent she didn’t say they are not born with a sinful nature. Pelagian taught that babies are born without a sinful nature and that man is capable of repentance without God’s grace and is capable of living a sinless life. That is what the councils of Carthage and Orange condemned. They did not come to the conclusion that man is guilty of Adam’s sin. Saying that a baby has not sinned is not Pelagianism.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,685
7,908
...
✟1,319,306.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
You are here to argue. I'm not.

I am here to defend the truth of God's Word. Sometimes this involves disagreements. But again, you are fulfilling a cliche of Calvinism by being mysterious about what you actually believe. Why do that? Why not break the stigma against Calvinism? Why not speak up so as to help somebody else?
 
Upvote 0

Dave L

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 28, 2018
15,549
5,879
USA
✟580,230.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I am here to defend the truth of God's Word. Sometimes this involves disagreements.
The truth according to who? What you think is truth must agree with historic Christianity. How well do you align with it?
 
Upvote 0

zoidar

loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️
Site Supporter
Sep 18, 2010
7,481
2,673
✟1,041,106.00
Country
Sweden
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Surely your not suggesting Open Theism (i.e. that God does not know everything and He learns as things happen).

No, no and no! I'm saying we are judged according to sin and righteousness. I can't be judged now for what I might do in the future. God deals with us in the present.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,685
7,908
...
✟1,319,306.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married

I believe that if babies have a sin nature, then they have sin on them in some way. This would be the stain from Adam's sin.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,685
7,908
...
✟1,319,306.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
The truth according to who? What you think is truth must agree with historic Christianity. How well do you align with it?

Again, you are avoiding in explaining what you said before. You are fitting the mold or stigma of Calvinism in that they many times will not explain things and come off all mysterious. Please break the mold and show us otherwise.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,685
7,908
...
✟1,319,306.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
No, no and no! I'm saying we are judged according to sin and righteousness. I can't be judged now for what I might do in the future. God deals with us in the present.

God knows EXACTLY what we are going to do. There is no MIGHT do this or that in God's eyes unless one believes in some form of Open Theism. God sees the future perfectly. Yes, I believe God deals with a person also in real time. If a person falls away from the faith, and becomes unsaved, that does not mean God is not going to give them salvation to begin with. God is faithful to His Word.
 
Upvote 0

Dave L

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 28, 2018
15,549
5,879
USA
✟580,230.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Again, you are avoiding in explaining what you said before. You are fitting the mold or stigma of Calvinism in that they many times will not explain things and come off all mysterious. Please break mold and show us you are better than that.
You are out of sync with the historic creeds. Calvin and Luther simply agreed with the Council of Ephesus 0f 431. You don't agree with it. They condemned Premillrnnialism as heresy. You're off on that. Who should I believe? The Church or you?
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,685
7,908
...
✟1,319,306.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
You are out of sync with the historic creeds. Calvin and Luther simply agreed with the Council of Ephesus 0f 431. You don't agree with it. They condemned Premillrnnialism as heresy. You're off on that. Who should I believe? The Church or you?

You are still evading in explaining what I asked you. Please go back and do so now, and I will be happy to answer any future questions you may have.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,685
7,908
...
✟1,319,306.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
What's your question?

You said, “How can God know anything he did not predestinate?”

I asked you to explain better in detail, and you did not give a satisfactory answer in any kind of detail or proper explanation. You just came off all mysterious in your replies after this.
 
Upvote 0

Dave L

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 28, 2018
15,549
5,879
USA
✟580,230.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
God is the cause of everything. His foreknowledge stems from his eternal decree. How can anyone produce anything he didn't cause them to produce?
 
Upvote 0

zoidar

loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️
Site Supporter
Sep 18, 2010
7,481
2,673
✟1,041,106.00
Country
Sweden
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private

I agree God knows exactly. But He can't judge babies from what would have happened in the future if they grew up. Maybe you didn't mean that, misunderstanding on my part then, sorry. Heard that argument.

To clarify. I thought you meant that babies were elect because of God's foreknowledge.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Isilwen

Well-Known Member
Oct 13, 2019
3,741
2,788
Florida
✟161,599.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Episcopalian
Marital Status
Engaged
Politics
US-Democrat
Whoever you are with?
Are you suggesting that you are engaged in sexual activity outside of marriage?
God does not allow for choice, as if murder is a choice.

Nope. At least not now. I am 46 years old. And before I became a Christian I had a 10-year relationship with a girl who gave me five children. She didn't want to get married and left me 10 years and a couple of months in. I found someone else and we married and I became a Christian. I couldn't make her happy, so she divorced me, but not after we had two children. Both of these girls were inline with my thinking that while abortion is a no-no for us, we allow others to make their own choice. We will not force our decision on others.

My girlfriend now also believes as I do. We do not have pre-marital sex, but children are not in our future as I have gotten a vasectomy and she is on birth control anyway for period control.

This is what I mean by whoever I am with. Their belief aligns with mine on abortion.
 
Upvote 0

Isilwen

Well-Known Member
Oct 13, 2019
3,741
2,788
Florida
✟161,599.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Episcopalian
Marital Status
Engaged
Politics
US-Democrat
Murder is sin at all times. Not a choice,it is a sin

Yep, and I allow them to make that choice. They can choose to have an abortion or not. I will not force my view on them.
 
Upvote 0