Calvinism and Abortion

[Dave L]

I attend a reformed church and have learned alot from Jeff Durbin, James White and Paul washer

So what's your point?

 

[Dave L]

Don't do it to help me, but do it to help the reader who is seeking the truth. Well, that is if you believe you are for defending the truth. Many times I continue to offer an explanation on certain topics when I know that the person I am talking to is not open to such a truth because I know that another person who comes across this website and is seeking for such a truth will find it.

Many Calvinists I have discussed with use the mystery tactic and they evade discussing the issue. Would it not be good to break such a false stigma against Calvinism?

You are here to argue. I'm not.

 

[BNR32FAN]

They sinned in Adam. When Adam sinned, that was imputed unto them, and it’s as if they did it themselves. And yes, she’s teaching Pelagianism. He taught that Adam’s sin only affected him, and that babies are born innocent. He denied original sin, just as she seems to do.

Your confusing what Pelagian taught. She said babies are born innocent she didn’t say they are not born with a sinful nature. Pelagian taught that babies are born without a sinful nature and that man is capable of repentance without God’s grace and is capable of living a sinless life. That is what the councils of Carthage and Orange condemned. They did not come to the conclusion that man is guilty of Adam’s sin. Saying that a baby has not sinned is not Pelagianism.

 

[Sovereign Grace]

You have to back up your argument with scripture.

I did in a previous post.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You are here to argue. I'm not.

I am here to defend the truth of God's Word. Sometimes this involves disagreements. But again, you are fulfilling a cliche of Calvinism by being mysterious about what you actually believe. Why do that? Why not break the stigma against Calvinism? Why not speak up so as to help somebody else?

 

[Dave L]

I am here to defend the truth of God's Word. Sometimes this involves disagreements.

The truth according to who? What you think is truth must agree with historic Christianity. How well do you align with it?

 

[zoidar]

Surely your not suggesting Open Theism (i.e. that God does not know everything and He learns as things happen).

No, no and no! I'm saying we are judged according to sin and righteousness. I can't be judged now for what I might do in the future. God deals with us in the present.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Your confusing what Pelagian taught. She said babies are born innocent she didn’t say they are not born with a sinful nature. Pelagian taught that babies are born without a sinful nature and that man is capable of repentance without God’s grace and is capable of living a sinless life. That is what the councils of Carthage and Orange condemned. They did not come to the conclusion that man is guilty of Adam’s sin. Saying that a baby has not sinned is not Pelagianism.

I believe that if babies have a sin nature, then they have sin on them in some way. This would be the stain from Adam's sin.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The truth according to who? What you think is truth must agree with historic Christianity. How well do you align with it?

Again, you are avoiding in explaining what you said before. You are fitting the mold or stigma of Calvinism in that they many times will not explain things and come off all mysterious. Please break the mold and show us otherwise.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No, no and no! I'm saying we are judged according to sin and righteousness. I can't be judged now for what I might do in the future. God deals with us in the present.

God knows EXACTLY what we are going to do. There is no MIGHT do this or that in God's eyes unless one believes in some form of Open Theism. God sees the future perfectly. Yes, I believe God deals with a person also in real time. If a person falls away from the faith, and becomes unsaved, that does not mean God is not going to give them salvation to begin with. God is faithful to His Word.

 

[Dave L]

Again, you are avoiding in explaining what you said before. You are fitting the mold or stigma of Calvinism in that they many times will not explain things and come off all mysterious. Please break mold and show us you are better than that.

You are out of sync with the historic creeds. Calvin and Luther simply agreed with the Council of Ephesus 0f 431. You don't agree with it. They condemned Premillrnnialism as heresy. You're off on that. Who should I believe? The Church or you?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You are out of sync with the historic creeds. Calvin and Luther simply agreed with the Council of Ephesus 0f 431. You don't agree with it. They condemned Premillrnnialism as heresy. You're off on that. Who should I believe? The Church or you?

You are still evading in explaining what I asked you. Please go back and do so now, and I will be happy to answer any future questions you may have.

 

[Dave L]

You are still evading in explaining what I asked you.

What's your question?

 

[Zachm531]

So what's your point?

The point is you asked me a question and that was my answer

 

[Dave L]

The point is you asked me a question and that was my answer

So be it.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

What's your question?

You said, “How can God know anything he did not predestinate?”

I asked you to explain better in detail, and you did not give a satisfactory answer in any kind of detail or proper explanation. You just came off all mysterious in your replies after this.

 

[Dave L]

You said, “How can God know anything he did not predestinate?”

I asked you to explain better in detail, and you did not give a satisfactory answer in any kind of detail or proper explanation. You just came off all mysterious in your replies after this.

God is the cause of everything. His foreknowledge stems from his eternal decree. How can anyone produce anything he didn't cause them to produce?

 

[zoidar]

God knows EXACTLY what we are going to do. There is no MIGHT do this or that in God's eyes unless one believes in some form of Open Theism. God sees the future perfectly. Yes, I believe God deals with a person also in real time. If a person falls away from the faith, and becomes unsaved, that does not mean God is not going to give them salvation to begin with. God is faithful to His Word.

I agree God knows exactly. But He can't judge babies from what would have happened in the future if they grew up. Maybe you didn't mean that, misunderstanding on my part then, sorry. Heard that argument.

To clarify. I thought you meant that babies were elect because of God's foreknowledge.

 

[Isilwen]

Whoever you are with?
Are you suggesting that you are engaged in sexual activity outside of marriage?
God does not allow for choice, as if murder is a choice.

Nope. At least not now. I am 46 years old. And before I became a Christian I had a 10-year relationship with a girl who gave me five children. She didn't want to get married and left me 10 years and a couple of months in. I found someone else and we married and I became a Christian. I couldn't make her happy, so she divorced me, but not after we had two children. Both of these girls were inline with my thinking that while abortion is a no-no for us, we allow others to make their own choice. We will not force our decision on others.

My girlfriend now also believes as I do. We do not have pre-marital sex, but children are not in our future as I have gotten a vasectomy and she is on birth control anyway for period control.

This is what I mean by whoever I am with. Their belief aligns with mine on abortion.

 

[Isilwen]

Murder is sin at all times. Not a choice,it is a sin

Yep, and I allow them to make that choice. They can choose to have an abortion or not. I will not force my view on them.