Calling all Bible literalists...

[Nathan Poe]

Today at 02:28 AM Osthuvud said this in Post #55



A council convened on the NT, but my knowledge about this is nil.  The OT had already been decided by Jewry.  Jesus had no complaints about the OT, so I don't.  There are a couple thousand ancient NT manuscripts that are used to give us our Bible, and too many saints have spilled their blood in defense of the NT.  If God doesn't have enough influence to preserve His word, then He won't be resurrecting anyone either.

A council convened on the NT, and everyone's knowledge about that council is nil. All we know is that they (whoever "they" were) took a vote and decided what was and was not going to be "the Bible." Jesus had no complaints about the OT that the council saw fit to include in the NT. The hard evidence is incomplete, and lost to us forever.

Saints spilled their blood for what they believed to be true. But no amount of Saint's blood can make a lie (if it is a lie) into the truth. So let's drop the "martyrdom = truth" argument once and for all.

What are you insinuating by that, Poe?

That the "council" had the desire and the ability to omit any "gospel" that contradicted with what they wanted the OT to mean. Thus, the OT and what we have of the NT match up pretty well.

Actually, a number of the new translations are more to satisfy wants of political correctness.  Only God can judge the heart, but the motives don't appear to be genuine.  As far as risking souls on their honesty, I stick to the KJV. 

You think "political correctness" is a new thing? You think nobody's ever dared to use "The Word of God" for their own selfish purposes? Don't be naive. 

When you say "the Church", you are referring to the Roman Catholic church.  Yes, they had the Bible under lock and key so they could promote any doctrine they chose without dispute.  I believe this is referred to as the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes by Jesus in Revelation 2 and 3.  (Nicolaitane means "destruction of the people" according to the Blue Letter Bible which is a direct translation of the Greek.)  Meanwhile the blood was spilling in the Holy land with the crusades, in Europe with the Inquisition, and then again with the Reformation.

What we're talking about is the after-the-fact editing that occured hundreds of years after Jesus' death. He didn't say anything about that, in Revelation or anywhere else.

There are others who feel "the church" is the collection of all true believers in Jesus Christ.  It has nothing to do with human leadership, nothing to do with property.  But as scripture says, the believers are the body of Christ who have the Holy Spirit within them.  Those who burned Tyndale weren't likely part of the true church. [/B][/QUOTE]

No, but only one of these two "churches" had complete editorial control of the Bible on which you base your faith. And it's the one I wouldn't trust farther then I could spit.

That's like the Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland killing each other for centuries.  Do you think they're Christians too?  Is anyone who refers to themselves as a Christian, a Christian?

Is everyone who writes a Bible a Christian?

 

You've already made your point that you can find small discrepancies.  Show me one that destroys a crucial doctrine and you'll have an audience with me.

But the Bible is supposed to be completely free of error or contradiction.  Clearly it is not.

I have shown small errors, ones that are easily found. So much for biblical inerrancy. How many errors are in there that we haven't spotted yet? How many that may never be detected? How many of those errors affect key doctrines?

Answer: We don't know.

You want to bet your soul on that?
 

Before I answer this, I can't help but wonder what your motive is.  You seem to know scripture better than most people I know who claim to be Christian (outside of the ones that go to the same church as I do).  Has this forum replaced your third century seat in the Colliseum?

Well, you know how hard it is to take care of real lions...  

Actually, I have nothing against Christianity. It's Biblism that bothers me. If you think that an all-powerful God said all that He needed to say in a 2000 year old book, and that all He has to do is help you understand that book, then you're missing out on something. God is smarter than that.

I am fully aware of the warning at the end of Revelation.  But this warning goes out to all those who add or subtract from it.  That would be the translating perpetrators.  However, going back to the OT, which had no complaints from Jesus himself, Psalm 12 has that covered in verses 6 and 7.  It says that the LORD will preserve his word FOREVER.  That's good enough for me.

And where in Psalm 12, or anywhere in the OT, does it mention that the Bible is the Word that will be preserved? I thought Jesus was the Word. 

  

Whooooooaaah!  So what is this, Poe's Law?

Having a little trouble with your font size? Or must you make your words look big to make them sound true?

Anyway, I misspoke when I called it a law. In actuality, it's only Darwin's theory.

Scientific law = Always true

Scientific theory = considered always true until someone proves it wrong.

The point is, Darwin did not "invent" evolution by natural selection. He only gave a name to a process which he believed was always occuring in life, and always would.

I guess you really are becoming a celebrity, and with good cause.  You just brought evolution from theory status to LAW.

Again, my mistake. 

I think I'm starting to understand who YOU think GOD is.  After all, add one letter to Poe, and you have the title of one who millions of people feel is the most holy person on earth.    [/B]

I may not know who He is, but I've got a few pretty good ideas what He's not.

 

It's called entropy, and it's the 3rd Law of Thermodynamics.  one of the products of "The Curse". 

1: I think you mean the 2nd law.

2: What does that have to do with "The Curse?"

3: You do realize that 2LoT arguments have already been refuted on this board and elsewhere...

 

PROVE????  Just what have you been smoking?  More laws of the universe????  I think Poe's Law is going to your head.  I checked out your site.  People think that they find something on the internet and it's got to be true.  This joker is talking about Global Warming.  There's a tip right there!

Perhaps I should have said "disprove." You implied that the Sun is shrinking at a constant rate. I showed you research that disproved that. you said that millions of years ago, the sun would have been so big that the dinosaurs would have been living inside it. The site I showed disproved that as well.

And "this joker" (a title I presume you reserve for all whom you don't agree with) mentions global warming in passing. What does that have to do with your refuted claims of the "Incredible Shrinking Sun"?

You can have your made up laws, and your scientists that have to find favorable conclusions to continue to get their government funds.  I'll stick to the Law of God.

Stick to it all you want, I only hope you find it first someday...

 

[Nathan Poe]

I used to like you, Johnny; you used to make me laugh.

Today at 12:21 AM JohnR7 said this in Post #51

Oh yeah, that is some real controversial stuff you got there.

You could perhaps find enough stuff on Plato or Aristotle to put together a course or two on them.

So you want to compare someone that you can learn about all there is to learn in three months time. Compared to Moses who you could study for 8 years and you would just be getting started to learn all that he has to teach us.

...But for you to doublethink this kind of self-righteous arrogance is a perfect illustration of what creates a good scoffer.

So you really think you've got it all figured out? In the time I've known you, you have demonstrated an astounding ignorance of anything not associated with your own personal interpretation of the Bible, and you've never let it interfere with your ex cathedra proclamations. But this one really rings the bell.

Aristotle was one of the most profound influences on the early church. Christian theologians such as Augustine and Aquinas studied him like an unofficial saint.

I pity you, John. So I'm going to put you on ignore for a couple of days. I'd hope that you'd use the time off from our discussions to look up a couple of the things you claim to know something about, but I doubt it.

Over and out, Johnny.

 

[Pete Harcoff]

Today at 02:28 AM Osthuvud said this in Post #55
It's called entropy, and it's the 3rd Law of Thermodynamics.  one of the products of "The Curse". 

On the subject of 2LOT beginning after Adam & Eve sinned:

Question: Did the 2nd Law begin at the Fall?

Answer:

No, I would not say that entropy/Second Law of Thermodynamics began at the Fall. The Second Law is responsible for a number of good things which involve increases in entropy, so are ‘decay’ processes in the thermodynamic sense but maybe not what most people would imagine are decay:

solar heating of the earth (heat transfer from a hot object to a cold one is the classical case of the Second Law in action),

walking (requires the highly entropic phenomenon of friction, otherwise Adam and Eve would have slipped as they walked with God in Eden!),

breathing (based on air moving from high pressure to low pressure, producing a more disordered equalized concentration of molecules),

digestion (breaking down large complex food molecules into their simple building blocks),

baking a cake (mixing the ingredients produces a lot of disorder), etc.

From AIG.