Called out by name

[keras]

the notion of some pre-7 year cataclysmic solar event destroying the current population in Israel an invention of your own imagination

Prove then; that Psalms 83 and Micah 4:11-12 are not before the GT or the Return.
I view those Prophesies as another description of the Sixth Seal. The events of the 7 Trumpets and the 7 Bowls, are not worldwide or said to take place in the holy Land.

The only future you envision for the present Jewish population currently in Israel is their complete annihilation and destruction in a cataclysmic solar event - the next big event in bible prophecy according to you.

And to God.
He is quite clear about it; Zephaniah 1:4 I shall stretch My hand over Judah, over all who live in Jerusalem, I shall wipe out their false worship, ….erasing all memory of them. Zephaniah 1:14-18, Jeremiah 10:18, 14-12, Isaiah 29:1-4, Ezekiel 21:1-7, Matthew 8:12, +

Daniel's people - the Jews.

Daniel was a faithful Israelite, an overcomer for God.
We Christians are overcomers for God, having accepted the Salvation offered by Jesus. We are seen in each of the seven Church's of Revelation.

You either have not read the scriptures, or have wilfully ignored anything that differs from your beliefs

 

[Douggg]

Daniel was a faithful Israelite, an overcomer for God.
We Christians are overcomers for God, having accepted the Salvation offered by Jesus. We are seen in each of the seven Church's of Revelation.

keras, I am not a Jew nor an Israelite. I am an American of mostly English descent. Spiritually, I am a new creation in Christ.

I am not a blood descendant of any of the twelve tribes of Israel. Christians are from every tribe, race, kindreds, tongues, and peoples of the human race.

I am a Christian, not a term that you invented - a faithful Israelite. I am a Christian, not by being an Israelite, but by believing upon the Lord Jesus Christ and Him crucified for atonement of my sins.

I reject the replacement theology that you are teaching. The 70 weeks in Daniel 9:24 are determined upon Jerusalem and Daniel's people the Jews. Daniel was a Jew. Daniel 1:6.

6 Now among these were of the children of Judah, Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah:

You might agree with me on one thing - that we each are accountable to God for what we teach and say.

 

[keras]

, I am not a Jew nor an Israelite.

But as a Christian, you are an Israelite by faith, grafted into the Tree that is Jesus. You are an overcomer for God, as Jacob was and God gave him the name of Israel. We Christian peoples, from every tribe race, nation and language, are Jacob and Abrahams descendants by faith, Galatians 3:26-29, and in the majority of cases; actual descendants too - from the ten Northern tribes, still scattered around the world.
You deny the Gospel Message to reject these truths.

I am not a blood descendant of any of the twelve tribes of Israel.

Actually, you being of English descent, means you quite likely to be descended from the tribe of Ephraim. Only God knows. Amos 9:9

I reject the replacement theology that you are teaching.

I replace nothing.
We Christians are joined into the one true Church, which has always been only a portion of ancient Israel and has always allowed gentiles to join them. Note: Ruth and the Roman Centurion, etc.

Your insistence in a Jewish redemption, is a bad mistake and conflicts with many Prophesies which tell of the virtual demise of Judah. Only a remnant will survive. Romans 9:27. Matthew 8:12 - Jesus talking to the Roman Centurion.
You have to cling to a Jewish redemption, or your false 'anytime rapture', is a dead duck. Sad really, as what is soon to happen will be difficult for all who grip onto wrong beliefs.

 

[Douggg]

But as a Christian, you are an Israelite by faith, grafted into the Tree that is Jesus.

No, I am not. Israelites are the blood descendants of the twelve tribes. Paul was an Israelite.

Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

We are Christians, not Israelites. By faith, a new creation in Christ. Becoming an Israelite is not a Christian doctrine.

I replace nothing.

You replace the entire current nation of Israel, mostly Jews, with another nation entirely of Christians from around the world - right before the 70th week begins . You replace Daniel's people the Jews, with Christians to rebuild the next temple.

The parable of the fig tee is based on Jerusalem being back in the hands of the Jews - which took place in 1967. Not in the hands of Christians.

Which the 70th week is closing in to beginning. There are two events that is going to cause you to admit your error of a cataclysmic solar event. The first is if the rapture takes place, to take Christians who believe in the rapture out of this world. The second is the Gog/Magog event.

If either of those take place and no cataclysmic solar event has happened before then - you will have been proven wrong.

Because the rapture will take the bulk of Christians out of the world - with none left to build a new replacement nation of Beulah of your scenario.

Because you have the replacement nation of Beulah built before Gog/Magog.

 

[keras]

We are Christians, not Israelites. By faith, a new creation in Christ. Becoming an Israelite is not a Christian doctrine.

Paul says that we are the Israel of God. Galatians 6:14-16
Who did Jesus come to save? He clearly stated He came to save the lost House of Israel. Matthew 15:24 If that means the Jews, then He has failed in His mission. And the idea the Jews will convert enmass, is never Prophesied. Isaiah 22:14,,,they will die for their sins.

You replace the entire current nation of Israel, mostly Jews, with another nation entirely of Christians from around the world - right before the 70th week begins . You replace Daniel's people the Jews, with Christians to rebuild the next temple.

All this is exactly as the Bible Prophets tell us.

The parable of the fig tee is based on Jerusalem being back in the hands of the Jews - which took place in 1967. Not in the hands of Christians.

Right; the 'fig tree budding' prophecy, Matthew 24:32, has come to pass, but the Jews are in a small part of the holy Land and in apostasy.
Soon they will be thrown out. Jeremiah 12:14, Amos 2:4-5
Note; in that Prophecy, Jesus said they would bud and grow forth, but never bear fruit.

If either of those take place and no cataclysmic solar event has happened before then - you will have been proven wrong.

When the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster happens and a 'rapture' doesn't. I will be proved right.

Because the rapture will take the bulk of Christians out of the world

A total unscriptural fable, that is a lie from the father of lies.
Revelation 12:6-17, makes it clear that all the Christians remain on earth. Some kept safe in a distant location, the rest remain in the holy Land.

Because you have the replacement nation of Beulah built before Gog/Magog.

Of course, the Christian peoples are Beulah, [married to God, Isaiah 62:1-5] living in prosperity, without defences.
Ezekiel 38 to 39 never mentions the Jews, because they will have gone, only a few thousand Messianic Jews will remain, to join with their Christian brethren.

the rapture takes place, to take Christians who believe in the rapture out of this world.

Let me assure you that this disgusting and arrogant idea that those who reject the 'rapture to heaven', will get 'left behind', will cost you at the final Judgment.

 

[Douggg]

Let me assure you that this disgusting and arrogant idea that those who reject the 'rapture to heaven', will get 'left behind', will cost you at the final Judgment.

keras, you speak so vehemently against the rapture to heaven. So if it were to happen, why do you think you would be taken, having spoken so vehemently against it ?

Matthew 6:20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

Paul says that we are the Israel of God. Galatians 6:14-16

In verse 16, Paul was saying that rhetorically against certain Jews who were Christians but wanted to also keep the law of physical circumcision, and were trying to impose circumcision on other Christians. Paul was not saying that Christians had become Israelite's.

In verse 15, Paul reaffirmed what he had said in other letters. That Christians are a new creation in Christ. And that it has nothing to do with physical circumcision.

15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

16 And as many as walk according to this rule [of being a new creation in Christ, circumcision/uncircumcision mattering not], peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

 

[keras]

keras, you speak so vehemently against the rapture to heaven. So if it were to happen, why do you think you would be taken, having spoken so vehemently against it ?

I do not WANT to be 'taken' away from my home; the earth. Of what earthly use would I be sitting in heaven?
This is what you rapture believers fail to understand, God has placed us here and He has given each of us tasks to do. Some are raging evangelists and others just quietly display their faith and trust in God. I personally, have received the call to write out and help explain the Prophetic Word.
That I get virtually no traction or agreement for my efforts, is not my concern. The truth is out there, it is up to everyone to decide their beliefs.

In verse 16, Paul was saying that rhetorically against certain Jews who were Christians but wanted to also keep the law of physical circumcision, and were trying to impose circumcision on other Christians. Paul was not saying that Christians had become Israelite's.

In verse 15, Paul reaffirmed what he had said in other letters. That Christians are a new creation in Christ. And that it has nothing to do with physical circumcision.

15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

16 And as many as walk according to this rule [of being a new creation in Christ, circumcision/uncircumcision mattering not], peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Bad you; you avoided the context!
Paul is talking to and about Christians, Jews never come into this chapter.
Galatians 6:14-16....the only thing that counts is our new creation. [in Jesus] All who take this principal for their guide, peace and mercy to them, the Israel of God.

 

[David Kent]

The anytime rapture view.

I don’t think so.

Luke 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

I think we are nearly there.

 

[Douggg]

Bad you; you avoided the context!
Paul is talking to and about Christians, Jews never come into this chapter.
Galatians 6:14-16....the only thing that counts is our new creation. [in Jesus] All who take this principal for their guide, peace and mercy to them, the Israel of God.

Paul wrote his letter to the Galatians while he was in Rome. Galatians 6:18. To a number of churches in Galatia. Galatians 1:2.

Paul had received information that the churches there had strayed away from salvation by grace and were practicing strict adherence to the law, laid upon them by their church leaders, for their salvation.


6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you [Paul is talking about their church leaders - we might call them pastors] , and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

Paul is saying that there is only one gospel of salvation. There is not another.

And anyone preaching another gospel of salvation, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

The Galatians (Galilee region) would have been Christians who were ethnically Jews and Gentiles. Likely mostly Jews (ethnically). Jesus picked his first disciples while in Galilee. Matthew 4:18-22. Peter, Andrew, James, John.

Since Paul, in Galatians 3:1 addressed them as "O foolish Galatians", he was doing so because the (ethnically)
Jewish Christians of Galilee were trying work for their salvation, by strict adherence to following the law, instead of placing emphasis that by faith they are saved and not by works.

Paul, in Galatians 3-6, then proceeds to teach them why faith over works. In Galatians 6:16, Paul's statement of "the Israel of God" was rhetorical, aimed at the (ethnically) Jewish Christians.

Paraphrased, Paul was telling those Jewish Christians(as being part of Israel was so important to them), if you want to be the Israel of God - don't go by works, because circumcision/un-circumcision does not matter. Paul was not saying to all Christians that by becoming a Christian - a person becomes an Israelite.

 

[Douggg]

I do not WANT to be 'taken' away from my home; the earth.

Paul said to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Where is Jesus seated right now ?

 

[keras]

Paul said to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Where is Jesus seated right now ?

Seems you don't know what Jesus taught.
I will be with you always, to the end of time. Matthew 28:20b

Your belief in a general Jewish redemption and final conversion, is wrong and never said to happen. In Zechariah 14, we see that when Jesus Returns, the few remaining Jewish families will mourn for Him. This certainly makes it clear that it will be just a remnant of Jews, confirmed in Zechariah 13:8-9
So the 'rapture to heaven' theory is false and the idea of Christians going to live in heaven, while the Jews go thru the Great Tribulation, is a total falsehood and a lie from the father of lies.

 

[Douggg]

Seems you don't know what Jesus taught.
I will be with you always, to the end of time. Matthew 28:20b

In Matthew 28:19, by the presence of the Holy Spirit.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Paul said to be absent from the body is to present with the Lord. Jesus is right now seated at the right hand of the Father in heaven.

In Revelation 4, when John was called up - "Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter" , John was taken to heaven, the throne room of God.

Your idea that no-one goes to heaven is simply wrong. Which it is why is not taught in Christianity as a doctrine.

 

[keras]

Your idea that no-one goes to heaven is simply wrong. Which it is why is not taught in Christianity as a doctrine.

Enoch was translated into a Spiritual being. There is no mention of his living in heaven after that.
Elijah was taken up into the atmosphere, He was on earth after that. 2 Chronicles 21:12
Job awaits the final Judgment.
David sleeps in the grave, Lazarus too.
John visited heaven in a vision. He did not stay or live there.
The two Witnesses will be resurrected when Jesus Returns, along with all the GT martyrs. Revelation 20:4 They will be His Priests and co-rulers.
ALL the rest of the dead await the GWT Judgment, after the Millennium.

Reliance on Church doctrine is a slippery slope. Most Church's simply ignore Bible Prophecy and issues like the rapture. Saying that a deceased person is 'in the arms of Jesus', or is now looking down at us, is just white lies, said to comfort the mourners.

The 'rapture to heaven' theory is built entirely on assumptions, suppositions and plain guesswork. No scripture clearly supports it. Why believe it?

 

[Douggg]

John visited heaven in a vision. He did not stay or live there.

In Revelation 1, when John heard a voice from behind, he turned, and suddenly his reality changed, and he was standing before Jesus, in a completely different reality.

Revelation does not say how John's reality changed back to this world. But John's experience was not a vision in the normal sense.

When the rapture happens, a person's reality changes in the twinkling of an eye, with a new eternal everlasting body, and taken to heaven to be with Jesus. It is going to happen so quickly, that to them not taken, it will seem that the person suddenly disappeared.

 

[keras]

When the rapture happens, a person's reality changes in the twinkling of an eye, with a new eternal everlasting body, and taken to heaven to be with Jesus. It is going to happen so quickly, that to them not taken, it will seem that the person suddenly disappeared.

The fanciful notions of a dreamer and someone who uses opinions and speculations, instead of Bible truths.

We will all be present on earth when Jesus Returns, excepting for those who die from natural causes, or are martyred. Proved by Revelation 12: 14 & 17
It is wrong to assume the Prophecy in 1 Corinthians 15:50-56, happens before the end of the Millennium. Proved by how it is only then that Death will be no more. Revelation 21:4

 

[David Kent]

In Revelation 1, when John heard a voice from behind, he turned, and suddenly his reality changed, and he was standing before Jesus, in a completely different reality.

Revelation does not say how John's reality changed back to this world. But John's experience was not a vision in the normal sense.

When the rapture happens, a person's reality changes in the twinkling of an eye, with a new eternal everlasting body, and taken to heaven to be with Jesus. It is going to happen so quickly, that to them not taken, it will seem that the person suddenly disappeared.

Where does it say that at the rapture we will be taken to heaven?

 

[Douggg]

Where does it say that at the rapture we will be taken to heaven?

John's experience in Revelation 4:1-2, was a preview of the rapture event.

1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

The rapture/resurrection event in 1Thessalonians4 is...

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

At some moment in the near future, God is going to send Jesus call the dead in Christ from the grave, and to change the living in Christ. First the dead rise, and ascend. Then the living are translated and ascend, and as one group meet Jesus to be with Him, forever.

The living will be changed in the twinkling of an eye. To the left behind world, it will seem as they suddenly disappeared.

 

[keras]

John's experience in Revelation 4:1-2, was a preview of the rapture event.

1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

The rapture/resurrection event in 1Thessalonians4 is...

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

At some moment in the near future, God is going to send Jesus call the dead in Christ from the grave, and to change the living in Christ. First the dead rise, and ascend. Then the living are translated and ascend, and as one group meet Jesus to be with Him, forever.

The living will be changed in the twinkling of an eye. To the left behind world, it will seem as they suddenly disappeared.

These assertions have been shown to be wrong and are never Prophesied to happen.
It is very invidious and annoying of you to post such nonsense on a thread which proves how God will call out His people, into their destiny of being His witnesses, Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27 and His Light to the nations; Isaiah 49:3-8, Matthew 5:14-16

 

[Douggg]

It is very invidious and annoying of you to post such nonsense on a thread which proves how God will call out His people, into their destiny of being His witnesses, Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27 and His Light to the nations; Isaiah 49:3-8, Matthew 5:14-16

Did you learn a new word ?

 

[David Kent]

 dJohn's experience in Revelation 4:1-2, was a preview of the rapture event.

1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

The rapture/resurrection event in 1Thessalonians4 is...

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

At some moment in the near future, God is going to send Jesus call the dead in Christ from the grave, and to change the living in Christ. First the dead rise, and ascend. Then the living are translated and ascend, and as one group meet Jesus to be with Him, forever.

The living will be changed in the twinkling of an eye. To the left behind world, it will seem as they suddenly disappeared.

That doesn't say what you say.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-27. Says Jesus will descend and we will meet with him in the clouds.

There is nowhere that it says he will ascend again.

If for instance, you flew over here and i went to meet you at the airport it wouldn't be that i was going back with uou, that would be you coming to meet me and escort me back.

Jesus will descend.