Cain vs Abel?

mark kennedy

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able offered milk not flesh

I don't know where you getting that but this is the text:

Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat. And the Lord respected Abel and his offering, (Gen. 3:4)​

of the firstlings (Strong's H1062, bĕkowrah)
of his flock (Strong's H6629, tso'n )
and of the fat (H2459, cheleb )

How do you get milk from the 'firstlings', of the 'flock' and 'of fat'. Abel offered a firstborn of his flock, not milk.
 
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greentwiga

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That doesn't show that clothing was made from animals that died naturally. When God clothed Adam and Eve in animal skins, did he wait for the animals to die naturally first?

Did Abel wait for a lamb to die naturally before offering it in sacrifice? Not likely. So, why would he not also kill and skin a sheep for clothing whether or not he was vegetarian?

Anyway, typically, the meat of a sacrifice was eaten by the worshiper. It was the blood, fat and entrails which were burned on the altar.

The text does not describe precisely how Abel sacrificed his lamb. So I won't claim that he ate any part of it. But it doesn't say anything at all about only making clothing from animals which died naturally either.

It is important to distinguish between what is actually said and what we think that may imply. One should not state implications as if it was actual scripture.

I realized that the plants were domesticated first. It could be said that God gave them seeds, fruit, etc. Only later were animals domesticated (according to archaeologists) Then it could be said that God gave them animals to eat, as opposed to having to go out and hunt wild ones. Just pondering a different possible interpretation.
 
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mark kennedy

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Hebrew Lexicon :: H2461 (KJV)

חָלָב

chalab


milk, sour milk, cheese

Uh...yea...chalab Strongs H2461 means milk, usually translated 'a land that floweth with milk (H2461) and honey'. What has that got to do with the sacrifice of Abel?

(Strong's H1062, bĕkowrah) 'of the firstlings' is indeed a feminine noun but that does not mean female. Esau was obviously not female and the same word is used for his 'birthright'.

And Jacob said, Sell me this day thy birthright. (H1062)​
(Gen. 25:31)

You might want to go back and check those cross references.

Have a nice day :wave:
Mark
 
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granpa

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This


I don't know where you getting that but this is the text:

Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat. And the Lord respected Abel and his offering, (Gen. 3:4)​

of the firstlings (Strong's H1062, bĕkowrah)
of his flock (Strong's H6629, tso'n )
and of the fat (H2459, cheleb )

How do you get milk from the 'firstlings', of the 'flock' and 'of fat'. Abel offered a firstborn of his flock, not milk.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Why did God have respect toward Ables sacrifice, but not Cain?


The history book called the Upright Record/Book of Jasher tells why. Moses had no need to retell what was written, which Moses redacted when he wrote "the Upright Record" using the testimonies of the Patriarchs which he was privy to, in those days. He redacted those histories more for the Torah account, as they did not need to be retold.

Without the history, we are left without a foundation for "why", but with the history we have the foundation of the truths of the matters.

Notice in the history that man was not created vegetarian, just as the animal kingdom was not.

After the flood, man hunted all manner of beasts and ate them, only not eating the blood was put upon him. Before the flood, man was given domestic beasts to raise and to farm with -and man could eat the clean beasts, which Noah knew and for that reason, Noah understood why he must take seven pair of clean animals on the ark. Not just for sacrificing, either, as man did do from the beginning, having been taught that at the fall, when Adam dwelt in Eden/Paradise/the third heaven above and taught it by the animal being slain to cover the shame of the ruin of the vessel of clay that the Adam soul wears.

The grains are also brought in the sacrifices which God taught -and Moses records/re-instates how and when to bring them- but Cain chose the inferior of his crops to present to YHWH, showing disrespect to Him and showing that he did not fear God. At that time, when Cain became jealous of Abel's sacrifice being received but his own rejected, and threatened to murder Abel [sacrifice rage, so to speak:)], Abel became the first prophet who prophesied the avenging of his blood by the Avenger, God the Word. For that reason revealed in Jasher, Jesus said Abel was the first prophet whose blood/life was shed by the generation of evil [those who choose to do evil, being first tempted by the Satans, and then sin enters, as it did Judas].

Book of Jasher Bible - SpeedBible by johnhurt.com
Jasher Chapter 1 - The Book of Jasher Published by J.H. Parry & Company 1887

13-35
And she called the name of the first born Cain, saying, I have obtained a man from the Lord, and the name of the other she called Abel, for she said, In vanity we came into the earth, and in vanity we shall be taken from it
And the boys grew up and their father gave them a possession in the land; and Cain was a tiller of the ground, and Abel a keeper of sheep.
And it was at the expiration of a few years, that they brought an approximating offering to the Lord, and Cain brought from the fruit of the ground, and Abel brought from the firstlings of his flock from the fat thereof, and God turned and inclined to Abel and his offering, and a fire came down from the Lord from heaven and consumed it.
And unto Cain and his offering the Lord did not turn, and he did not incline to it, for he had brought from the inferior fruit of the ground before the Lord, and Cain was jealous against his brother Abel on account of this, and he sought a pretext to slay him.
And in some time after, Cain and Abel his brother, went one day into the field to do their work; and they were both in the field, Cain tilling and ploughing his ground, and Abel feeding his flock; and the flock passed that part which Cain had ploughed in the ground, and it sorely grieved Cain on this account.
And Cain approached his brother Abel in anger, and he said unto him, What is there between me and thee, that thou comest to dwell and bring thy flock to feed in my land?
And Abel answered his brother Cain and said unto him, What is there between me and thee, that thou shalt eat the flesh of my flock and clothe thyself with their wool?
And now therefore, put off the wool of my sheep with which thou hast clothed thyself, and recompense me for their fruit and flesh which thou hast eaten, and when thou shalt have done this, I will then go from thy land as thou hast said?
And Cain said to his brother Abel, Surely if I slay thee this day, who will require thy blood from me?
And Abel answered Cain, saying, Surely God who has made us in the earth, he will avenge my cause, and he will require my blood from thee shouldst thou slay me, for the Lord is the judge and arbiter, and it is he who will requite man according to his evil, and the wicked man according to the wickedness that he may do upon earth
And now, if thou shouldst slay me here, surely God knoweth thy secret views, and will judge thee for the evil which thou didst declare to do unto me this day.

And when Cain heard the words which Abel his brother had spoken, behold the anger of Cain was kindled against his brother Abel for declaring this thing.
And Cain hastened and rose up, and took the iron part of his ploughing instrument, with which he suddenly smote his brother and he slew him, and Cain spilt the blood of his brother Abel upon the earth, and the blood of Abel streamed upon the earth before the flock.
And after this Cain repented having slain his brother, and he was sadly grieved, and he wept over him and it vexed him exceedingly.
And Cain rose up and dug a hole in the field, wherein he put his brother's body, and he turned the dust over it.
And the Lord knew what Cain had done to his brother, and the Lord appeared to Cain and said unto him, Where is Abel thy brother that was with thee?
And Cain dissembled, and said, I do not know, am I my brother's keeper? And the Lord said unto him, What hast thou done? The voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground where thou hast slain him.
For thou hast slain thy brother and hast dissembled before me, and didst imagine in thy heart that I saw thee not, nor knew all thy actions.
But thou didst this thing and didst slay thy brother for naught and because he spoke rightly to thee, and now, therefore, cursed be thou from the ground which opened its mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand, and wherein thou didst bury him.
And it shall be when thou shalt till it, it shall no more give thee its strength as in the beginning, for thorns and thistles shall the ground produce, and thou shalt be moving and wandering in the earth until the day of thy death.
And at that time Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, from the place where he was, and he went moving and wandering in the land toward the east of Eden, he and all belonging to him.
And Cain knew his wife in those days, and she conceived and bare a son, and he called his name Enoch, saying, In that time the Lord began to give him rest and quiet in the earth.
And at that time Cain also began to build a city: and he built the city and he called the name of the city Enoch, according to the name of his son; for in those days the Lord had given him rest upon the earth, and he did not move about and wander as in the beginning.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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I have been pondering Cain slaying Abel. God says abel's blood is crying to Him from the ground. Ancient people used to sacrifice people and pour their blood out on the ground to ensure fertility of the ground. I have wondered if Cain was doing this false worship being the cause of God rejecting his worship. Just a question, I also consider the traditional thought that Abel offered a blood sacrifice and Cain didn't
No, the blood is the soul, in Scripture.
In Scripture, the spirit and soul are interchanged, also, sometimes, and context determines the meaning, but man is a triune being/spirit/soul/body.

Abel's blood/soul was crying out to YHWH from the belly of the earth, which is Sheol; where his soul went when Cain murdered him.

The Book of Enoch also shows us this fact:
The Book of Enoch, Translated by Robert H. Charles, 1912

22 And thence I went to another place, and he showed me in the west another great and high mountain and of hard rock.

2And there was in it four hollow places, deep and wide and very smooth. How smooth are the hollow places and deep and dark to look at.

3Then Raphael answered, one of the holy angels who was with me, and said unto me: "These hollow places have been created for this very purpose, that the spirits of the souls of the dead should assemble therein, yea that all the souls of the children of men should assemble here.

4And these places have been made to receive them till the day of their judgement and till their appointed period till the period appointed, till the great judgement comes upon them."
A Visit to Sheol
5I saw the spirits of the children of men who were dead, and their voice went forth to heaven and made suit.
6Then I asked Raphael the angel who was with me, and I said unto him: "This spirit- whose is it, whose voice goeth forth and maketh suit?"
7And he answered me saying: "This is the spirit which went forth from Abel, whom his brother Cain slew, and he makes his suit against him till his seed is destroyed from the face of the earth, and his seed is annihilated from amongst the seed of men."
8Then I asked regarding it, and regarding all the hollow places: "Why is one separated from the other?"
9And he answered me and said unto me: "These three have been made that the spirits of the dead might be separated. And such a division has been made for the spirits of the righteous, in which there is the bright spring of water.
10And such has been made for sinners when they die and are buried in the earth and judgement has not been executed on them in their lifetime.
11Here their spirits shall be set apart in this great pain till the great day of judgement and punishment and torment of those who curse for ever and retribution for their spirits. There He shall bind them for ever. 12And such a division has been made for the spirits of those who make their suit, who make disclosures concerning their destruction, when they were slain in the days of the sinners.
13Such has been made for the spirits of men who were not righteous but sinners, who were complete in transgression, and of the transgressors they shall be companions: but their spirits shall not be slain in the day of judgement nor shall they be raised from thence." 14Then I blessed the Lord of glory and said: "Blessed be my Lord, the Lord of righteousness, who ruleth for ever."
 
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yeshuasavedme

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the best grapes are eaten.
The inferior grapes are made into wine.

The grapes on the vine are called wine, in Scripture [so juice, not fermented, is also called wine], and the whole crop goes into the winepress when it is ready. Yes, grapes are eaten fresh and dried for later, but the grapes for wine wine are harvested and thrown into the press, and no one separates them.
 
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mark kennedy

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No, the blood is the soul, in Scripture.
In Scripture, the spirit and soul are interchanged, also, sometimes, and context determines the meaning, but man is a triune being/spirit/soul/body.

Abel's blood/soul was crying out to YHWH from the belly of the earth, which is Sheol; where his soul went when Cain murdered him.

No it isn't used interchangeably, the term 'soul' is speaking simply of the life breath. The Old Testament saints knew that there was something like final judgment and an afterlife, even a resurrection but it was obscure in the Hebrew text.

Cain was trying to lie about the deed, God is telling Cain I know what you did, I know where he died and how he died. Had the people who lived at the time knew what Cain had done they would have killed him but God wouldn't let them. The narrative isn't that hard to understand if you give it a chance to explain itself.

The grapes on the vine are called wine, in Scripture [so juice, not fermented, is also called wine], and the whole crop goes into the winepress when it is ready. Yes, grapes are eaten fresh and dried for later, but the grapes for wine wine are harvested and thrown into the press, and no one separates them.

Cain offered a sacrifice from a land that was cursed and God demands a perfect sacrifice, the very best. There is also a concept here that will become crucial in the Levitical laws of sacrifice:

And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. (Heb. 9:22)

And Moses took the blood, sprinkled it on the people, and said, “This is the blood of the covenant which the Lord has made with you according to all these words.” (Ex. 24:8)​

He has been refuted on this point

Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat. And the Lord respected Abel and his offering, (Gen. 3:4)​

of the firstlings (Strong's H1062, bĕkowrah)
of his flock (Strong's H6629, tso'n )
and of the fat (H2459, cheleb )

The Pentateuch is Levetical law, if you understand that this passage starts making a lot more sense. The blood sacrifice predates even Abraham, Moses and the other Levites are explaining how this has been apparent historically. The fact of the matter is that the passage is silent about why Cain's sacrifice was rejected but one thing is certain, Cain knew why and refused to offer an acceptable sacrifice.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
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yeshuasavedme

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YSM: No, the blood is the soul, in Scripture.
In Scripture, the spirit and soul are interchanged, also, sometimes, and context determines the meaning, but man is a triune being/spirit/soul/body.

Abel's blood/soul was crying out to YHWH from the belly of the earth, which is Sheol; where his soul went when Cain murdered him.

No it isn't used interchangeably, the term 'soul' is speaking simply of the life breath.
...
Mark

Soul is the person indwelling their body/house of flesh. The life is in the blood". blood does not have to come out of a soul's body for the crime of shedding of their blood =the departing of their soul/life- to have been committed in murder or manslaughter.
In the Law, a man may "kill" a soul/body of flesh with a blow, and no blood come out of the body, but that man is guilty of shedding blood: whether by murder aforethought, or manslaughter, the charge is shedding blood, without a drop coming out of the flesh.


nephesh : soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion

The KJV translates Strongs H5315 in the following manner: soul (475x), life (117x), person (29x), mind (15x), heart (15x), creature (9x), body (8x), himself (8x), yourselves (6x), dead (5x), will (4x), desire (4x), man (3x), themselves (3x), any (3x), appetite (2x), misc (47x).


Lev 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood:

Lev 17:12Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No soul of you shall eat blood

How does" breath" eat blood, Mark? The soul is the person that breathes in the flesh body, but in Sheol there is no breathing, for the body is dead, and the body without the spirit is dead.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Jam&c=2&v=26&t=KJV#s=1148026
Jam 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead...
Can a body without the spirit be a body breathing, a soul in it? -Nope! So the departing of the spirit is the departing of the soul.

A soul is a person, whether they are in the body or out of the body, the soul is the life/person made to dwell in its own fashioned body/house.
Exd 16:16 This is the thing which the LORD hath commanded, Gather of it every man according to his eating, an omer for every man, according to the number of your persons; H5315/souls take ye every man for them which are in his tents.
 
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mark kennedy

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Soul is the person indwelling their body/house of flesh.

In the Law, a man may "kill" a soul/body of flesh with a blow, and no blood come out of the body, but that man is guilty of shedding blood: whether by murder aforethought, or manslaughter, the charge is shedding blood, without a drop coming out of the flesh.

That's true as far as it goes, the exposition of the words involved in the passage in question is another matter.
 
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mark kennedy

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The life is in the blood". blood does not have to come out of a soul's body for the crime of shedding of their blood =the departing of their soul/life- to have been committed in murder or manslaughter.
In the Law, a man may "kill" a soul/body of flesh with a blow, and no blood come out of the body, but that man is guilty of shedding blood: whether by murder aforethought, or manslaughter, the charge is shedding blood, without a drop coming out of the flesh.

nephesh : soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion

nephesh (Strong's H5315 נֶפֶשׁ) - Literally and primarily, the 'breath of life'.

It’s used exclusively of living creatures including man in the first two chapter of Genesis:

…Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath H5315 l(Gen 1:21)
…God created great whales, and every living creature H5315 (Gen 1:24)
…Let the earth bring forth the living creature H5315 (Gen 1:30)
…every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, H5315 (Gen 1:30)
…man became a living soul. H5315 (Gen 2:7)
…Adam called every living creature, H5315 that was the name thereof. (Gen 2:19)
The connection you are making doesn’t happen till chapter 9:

But flesh with the life (H5315) thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat. (Gen 9:4)

  • That which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man
  • living being
  • living being (with life in the blood)
  • the man himself, self, person or individual
  • seat of the appetites
  • seat of emotions and passions

It has a dubious meaning with regards to mind, will and character though.

Ok, I see what you saying now, I thought you meant it was synonymous with the spirit, that's a tricky connection to make. It does connect directly to the life blood.

The KJV translates Strongs H5315 in the following manner: soul (475x), life (117x), person (29x), mind (15x), heart (15x), creature (9x), body (8x), himself (8x), yourselves (6x), dead (5x), will (4x), desire (4x), man (3x), themselves (3x), any (3x), appetite (2x), misc (47x).​

How does" breath" eat blood, Mark? The soul is the person that breathes in the flesh body, but in Sheol there is no breathing, for the body is dead, and the body without the spirit is dead.

I'm not sure I'm getting your meaning here.

For as the body without the spirit (G4151) is dead, so faith without works is dead also. (Jam 2:26)

Can a body without the spirit be a body breathing, a soul in it? -Nope! So the departing of the spirit is the departing of the soul.

You just made a connection that is dubious at best, The word 'nephesh' in Genesis is not being used the same way James is using it. Now there is a connection, a body without breath is dead, faith without works is dead, a pretty strong parallel being drawn there but that doesn't make the 'life breath' the same as the spirit of man.

The Greek word for 'spirit' can have the same meaning but it's used a number of different ways including the human spirit.

pneuma (G4151 πνεῦμα) - primarily denotes "the wind" (akin to pneo, "to breathe, blow"); also "breath;" then, especially "the spirit," which, like the wind, is invisible, immaterial and powerful. (Vine's Dictionary)​

Spirit (111x), Holy Ghost (89x), Spirit (of God) (13x), Spirit (of the Lord) (5x), (My) Spirit (3x), Spirit (of truth) (3x), Spirit (of Christ) (2x), human (spirit) (49x), (evil) spirit (47x), spirit (general) (26x), spirit (8x), (Jesus' own) spirit (6x), (Jesus' own) ghost (2x), misc (21x).

A soul is a person, whether they are in the body or out of the body, the soul is the life/person made to dwell in its own fashioned body/house.

Your not really going to get that from 'nephesh', not if your trying to make it synonymous with pneuma. Making the connection can be insightful but don't go making giant leaps, it can cloud your understanding of the text significantly. What you should understand is that James is using 'pneuma' in the much the same way the Hebrew writers used 'nephesh', the body without breath is dead, faith without works is dead. James is writing to a primarily Hebrew audience who would have gotten the meaning instantly because they were familiar with how the 'breath of life' concept was used in the Old Testament.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
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yeshuasavedme

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nephesh (Strong's H5315 נֶפֶשׁ) - Literally and primarily, the 'breath of life'.

It’s used exclusively of living creatures including man in the first two chapter of Genesis:
…Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath H5315 l(Gen 1:21)
…God created great whales, and every living creature H5315 (Gen 1:24)
…Let the earth bring forth the living creature H5315 (Gen 1:30)
…every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, H5315 (Gen 1:30)
…man became a living soul. H5315 (Gen 2:7)
…Adam called every living creature, H5315 that was the name thereof. (Gen 2:19)
The connection you are making doesn’t happen till chapter 9:

But flesh with the life (H5315) thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat. (Gen 9:4)

  • That which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man
  • living being
  • living being (with life in the blood)
  • the man himself, self, person or individual
  • seat of the appetites
  • seat of emotions and passions

It has a dubious meaning with regards to mind, will and character though.

Ok, I see what you saying now, I thought you meant it was synonymous with the spirit, that's a tricky connection to make. It does connect directly to the life blood.
The KJV translates Strongs H5315 in the following manner: soul (475x), life (117x), person (29x), mind (15x), heart (15x), creature (9x), body (8x), himself (8x), yourselves (6x), dead (5x), will (4x), desire (4x), man (3x), themselves (3x), any (3x), appetite (2x), misc (47x).​
I'm not sure I'm getting your meaning here.
For as the body without the spirit (G4151) is dead, so faith without works is dead also. (Jam 2:26)
You just made a connection that is dubious at best, The word 'nephesh' in Genesis is not being used the same way James is using it. Now there is a connection, a body without breath is dead, faith without works is dead, a pretty strong parallel being drawn there but that doesn't make the 'life breath' the same as the spirit of man.

The Greek word for 'spirit' can have the same meaning but it's used a number of different ways including the human spirit.
pneuma (G4151 πνεῦμα) - primarily denotes "the wind" (akin to pneo, "to breathe, blow"); also "breath;" then, especially "the spirit," which, like the wind, is invisible, immaterial and powerful. (Vine's Dictionary)​
Spirit (111x), Holy Ghost (89x), Spirit (of God) (13x), Spirit (of the Lord) (5x), (My) Spirit (3x), Spirit (of truth) (3x), Spirit (of Christ) (2x), human (spirit) (49x), (evil) spirit (47x), spirit (general) (26x), spirit (8x), (Jesus' own) spirit (6x), (Jesus' own) ghost (2x), misc (21x).



Your not really going to get that from 'nephesh', not if your trying to make it synonymous with pneuma. Making the connection can be insightful but don't go making giant leaps, it can cloud your understanding of the text significantly. What you should understand is that James is using 'pneuma' in the much the same way the Hebrew writers used 'nephesh', the body without breath is dead, faith without works is dead. James is writing to a primarily Hebrew audience who would have gotten the meaning instantly because they were familiar with how the 'breath of life' concept was used in the Old Testament.

Grace and peace,
Mark
Now I am not sure what you are saying in relation to what I said???
The nephesh is soul, is person.


nephesh : soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion

The KJV translates Strongs H5315 in the following manner: soul (475x), life (117x), person (29x), mind (15x), heart (15x), creature (9x), body (8x), himself (8x), yourselves (6x), dead (5x), will (4x), desire (4x), man (3x), themselves (3x), any (3x), appetite (2x), misc (47x).


When the spirit is gone, the life is gone, was my point, and the spirit gone leaves a dead, non breathing body, so soul and spirit are equated, in fact, the passage stating that the body without the spirit is dead would be better said that the body without the soul is dead, for soul/spirit go together, but not necessarily to the same place.Jesus commended His Spirit to the Father and His soul departed his flesh, and then the flesh body was dead.

I believe the Word teaches that each soul/person come to fruit in their season is born into and by the power of the life force/nature/kind that the Father of the spirits of all flesh called into being in the beginning of creation, and each kind is defined/ their house is built for them/ by the one spirit of that one kind, beating it out/building it, by the power/force of the remnant of that Spirit/nature/Force from within the seed of the kind come to fruit in its season..
Adam is one spirit and we each have a residue of the Adam spirit, which is the life force/nature of the Adam [Malachi 2:15; wherefore made He them one, having a resudue of the Spirit? because He sought godly seed =sons of God -of the human being kind], and though the spirit and soul are spoken of in the word at times as if one and the same, they are not, and though the body and soul are spoken of as one and the same in the Word, they are not, but since we are body, soul, and spirit, it is okay to identify us that way -until the body is dead:), with spirit and soul departed.





We are all one spirit, in Adam, but multitudes of persons in that one Adam spirit, just as the Father, the Son/Word, and the Holy Spirit are One YHWH/Life/Breath/Being, but three in persons, in the One YHWH.


Now where were we?:)
 
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mark kennedy

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Now I am not sure what you are saying in relation to what I said???

Not sure how you missed it, 'nephesh' means quite literally, 'life breath', which would appear the be exactly how James is using it:

For as the body without the spirit (G4151) is dead, so faith without works is dead also. (Jam 2:26)​

The nephesh is soul, is person.

No actually it's not, at least not in the Hebrew. In the New Testament pneuma (G4151 πνεῦμα) can be used to speak of the human spirit, even the Holy Spirit but in the passage you quoted from James it means 'life breath'.

nephesh : soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion

I'm well aware of the various ways it's translated, I think you missed the way it's used:

…Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath H5315 l(Gen 1:21)
…God created great whales, and every living creature H5315 (Gen 1:24)
…Let the earth bring forth the living creature H5315 (Gen 1:30)
…every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, H5315 (Gen 1:30)
…man became a living soul. H5315 (Gen 2:7)
…Adam called every living creature, H5315 that was the name thereof. (Gen 2:19)​

Does it always mean the 'soul' or 'spirit' in these passages or does it mean 'life breath'?

When the spirit is gone, the life is gone, was my point, and the spirit gone leaves a dead, non breathing body, so soul and spirit are equated, in fact, the passage stating that the body without the spirit is dead would be better said that the body without the soul is dead, for soul/spirit go together, but not necessarily to the same place.Jesus commended His Spirit to the Father and His soul departed his flesh, and then the flesh body was dead.

All true, when Jesus, 'gave up the ghost', so to speak his spirit left his body. I wouldn't argue to the contrary. Like I said, 'pneuma' can be used in that way.

I believe the Word teaches that each soul/person come to fruit in their season is born into and by the power of the life force/nature/kind that the Father of the spirits of all flesh called into being in the beginning of creation, and each kind is defined/ their house is built for them/ by the one spirit of that one kind, beating it out/building it, by the power/force of the remnant of that Spirit/nature/Force from within the seed of the kind come to fruit in its season..

Wow, you really just said that. I don't know anything about some 'life force' of nature, what I do know is that the word used in the Hebrew means:

'nephesh' (Strong's H5315 נֶפֶשׁ) - Literally and primarily, 'breath of life'.​

Adam is one spirit and we each have a residue of the Adam spirit, which is the life force/nature of the Adam [Malachi 2:15; wherefore made He them one, having a resudue of the Spirit? because He sought godly seed =sons of God -of the human being kind], and though the spirit and soul are spoken of in the word at times as if one and the same, they are not, and though the body and soul are spoken of as one and the same in the Word, they are not, but since we are body, soul, and spirit, it is okay to identify us that way -until the body is dead:), with spirit and soul departed.

All very interesting, still not sure how you equate all of this with 'nephesh'.

We are all one spirit, in Adam, but multitudes of persons in that one Adam spirit, just as the Father, the Son/Word, and the Holy Spirit are One YHWH/Life/Breath/Being, but three in persons, in the One YHWH.

Now where were we?:)

I'm not really sure where you were with this or where you were going with it. You have my exposition, hope it helps you along your way.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
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yeshuasavedme

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I'm well aware of the various ways it's translated, I think you missed the way it's used:
…Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath H5315 l(Gen 1:21)
…God created great whales, and every living creature H5315 (Gen 1:24)
…Let the earth bring forth the living creature H5315 (Gen 1:30)
…every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, H5315 (Gen 1:30)
…man became a living soul. H5315 (Gen 2:7)
…Adam called every living creature, H5315 that was the name thereof. (Gen 2:19)​
Does it always mean the 'soul' or 'spirit' in these passages or does it mean 'life breath'?
....

Wow, you really just said that. I don't know anything about some 'life force' of nature, what I do know is that the word used in the Hebrew means:
'nephesh' (Strong's H5315 נֶפֶשׁ) - Literally and primarily, 'breath of life'.​
The Word of God teaches us that "Spirit" is the "nature/life force" of every created kind. Every created kind is "one spirit", and every seed come to fruit in the kind comes into its being by the spirit/nature/life force called into being in the beginning of creation, which is the "driving force" to multiply itself by the seed of its kind come to fruit.

The soul is the person come into its being in its own kind. In the Word of God, a person is a soul/nephesh.

Even when the human being nephesh departs the flesh body -which is its "house", it does not cease to exist, but it ceases to breathe.

Disembodied human being souls in Sheol have tongues and voices and eyes and ears and they talk; which souls in Sheol included the wicked and the righteous before the Atonement, when Jesus' soul departed His body and He went down to Sheol and gave all the sins and iniquities laid on His soul -Isaiah 53- "to Azazel" [to fulfill Atonement], and He took those souls to Paradise above, to be with Him there until they get their resurrected bodies at the time of the Rapture of the living and the dead in Christ.
The wicked -unrepentant- souls in Sheol feel pain. They have eyes and they see. They know one another. They have ears and they hear.
They do not have bodies, and they do not breathe.
They are "souls/persons/nephesh"

Hebrew nephesh is used 753 times in the KJV Translation Count —

The KJV translates Strongs H5315 in the following manner: soul (475x), life (117x), person (29x), mind (15x), heart (15x), creature (9x), body (8x), himself (8x), yourselves (6x), dead (5x), will (4x), desire (4x), man (3x), themselves (3x), any (3x), appetite (2x), misc (47x).


In Luke 16, Jesus expounds on what Enoch revealed: that the souls in Sheol talk -and some cry out for the avenging of their blood.

Before the Atonement, when Jesus descended and "set the captives free" from there, and took the righteous souls with Him, up to Paradise above -in the third heaven- we see the souls/persons of Abraham, Lazarus, and the rich man [dives]. They talk, they see, some are in comfort, some are in torments [as Enoch revealed].
They are not breathing. Their bodies are dead, and gone to dust -after time.


19 “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. 20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’




27 “Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ 29 Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’”
 
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