C.A.R.M. 's homosexuality webpage

[catlover]

JohnT, this is an example of how far this website has declined spiritually.

The long standing effort to undermine any biblical foundation in debate areas and theology has largely succeeded. Biblical morality is lampooned.

Please do not invite young Christians to this part of CF.



Attack the messenger.
Sad time for CF... and it is growing darker.

If you mean the message of the neocon agenda: exclusion, maligning groups of people, and mean spiritedness is a decline in spirituality-good. Perhaps C.A.R.M is the better place for those who want to spread the neocon agenda.

 

[JohnT]

If you mean the message of the neocon agenda: exclusion, maligning groups of people, and mean spiritedness is a decline in spirituality-good. Perhaps C.A.R.M is the better place for those who want to spread the neocon agenda.

CATLOVER:

[FONT=&quot]How about the pro homosexual agenda, eh?

You guys want tolerance, but if someone disagrees with your agenda or philosophies, then your members become highly INTOLERANT, instantly.

How about your side calling Christians names like, "bigots" and "unloving" when we quote the words of a just, holy, loving and righteous God? That is called maligning.

When we call all homosexual activities "sinful" and thereby offer a chance out of your chosen lifestyle and practices through repentance, you call us "mean spirited". Those saying that their choice is "genetic" offers no hope for repentance and change. We do, so who is being mean, now?

Your supporters fail to find anything in the Bible, (except as you distort Scriptures) that supports your laissez faire attitude regarding righteousness, and sin. Neither seem to matter. But you blame Christians for the "decline in spiritual good". ((((shaking my head))))

If you think that Christians should go to another place, I ask if you ever read the TITLE if this site?

Hey, you are welcome to come here if you obey the same rules as everyone else does, but it is kinda over-the-top to invite Christians to leave a site called "Christian Forums", don't you agree?

However, the positions that you guys take are clearly mentioned in Scripture.

Proverbs 17:15

He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD. KJV


[/FONT]

 

[catlover]

Please spare people the "we are so persecuted" mantra...you are not denied housing for your views, denied partner benefits, or health insurance because of your religious beliefs...

You don't quote the words of a just holy God, you take a passage from The Bible, and use it against a group of people.

CARM suits people who,mistakenly, believe they are God's mouthpiece and use that belief to spread a skewed agenda..

 

[JohnT]

Please spare people the "we are so persecuted" mantra...you are not denied housing for your views, denied partner benefits, or health insurance because of your religious beliefs...

You choose to sin, you pay the price. If you do not like the price, do not sin.

However it is not right to give SPECIAL rights to people who flaunt immorality. In that respect, your case is no different than the FLDS folk. That is because both your group and the FLDS people seek to redefine the family, and to do things that God says is sin. Following your logic, what is wrong with beastiality, especially if done consensually?

You don't quote the words of a just holy God, you take a passage from The Bible, and use it against a group of people.

And just who wrote the Bible? 2 Peter 1:20-21

20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
​

Are you REALLY interested in serving and pleasing God, or pleasing yourself? If the former is true, then do not disparage the Bible, but if the latter is true, continue just as you are doing.

CARM suits people who,mistakenly, believe they are God's mouthpiece and use that belief to spread a skewed agenda..

Conversely, does this subsection supposedly suit people who seek to skew the plain, unambiguous words of a just, loving and holy God? In rebuttal, you cite a "superior" source, James Baldwin??? Do you believe you are a Raisin in the Sun? That was his view of himself.

Sorry Catlover, but ultimately it is to God whom you must give an account, not to me.

All I do is quote his words. Do you think that your protesting words to the contrary will change God's judgment on judgment day? Do you honestly believe that you can get Him to change His mind to what you say?

I truly do not believe you will be able to do that, and I suspect that in your heart of hearts, you may believe likewise. That is why repentance is so important. Without it, you can not enter into heaven .

 

[catlover]

You choose to sin, you pay the price. If you do not like the price, do not sin.

However it is not right to give SPECIAL rights to people who flaunt immorality. In that respect, your case is no different than the FLDS folk. That is because both your group and the FLDS people seek to redefine the family, and to do things that God says is sin. Following your logic, what is wrong with beastiality, especially if done consensually?


And just who wrote the Bible? 2 Peter 1:20-21

20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
​

Are you REALLY interested in serving and pleasing God, or pleasing yourself? If the former is true, then do not disparage the Bible, but if the latter is true, continue just as you are doing.

Conversely, does this subsection supposedly suit people who seek to skew the plain, unambiguous words of a just, loving and holy God? In rebuttal, you cite a "superior" source, James Baldwin??? Do you believe you are a Raisin in the Sun? That was his view of himself.

Sorry Catlover, but ultimately it is to God whom you must give an account, not to me.

All I do is quote his words. Do you think that your protesting words to the contrary will change God's judgment on judgment day? Do you honestly believe that you can get Him to change His mind to what you say?

I truly do not believe you will be able to do that, and I suspect that in your heart of hearts, you may believe likewise. That is why repentance is so important. Without it, you can not enter into heaven .

Save your condemning nonsense for the mirror-the funniest thing about fundamentalists they believe they speak for God when they actually speak from their own ego and agenda...

I am heterosexual, that is besides the point...

The fact that Fundamental Christians have the worst venom for gays is telling. I think it's trying to draw attention from your own sinfullness: gluttony, lust, gossip, etc.... gays and lesbians are simply a target....

I advocate that people who are maligned in society SHOULD BE TREATED with dignity and respect...novel concept isn't it????

 

[JohnT]

Save your condemning nonsense for the mirror-the funniest thing about fundamentalists they believe they speak for God when they actually speak from their own ego and agenda...

I am heterosexual, that is besides the point...

The fact that Fundamental Christians have the worst venom for gays is telling. I think it's trying to draw attention from your own sinfullness: gluttony, lust, gossip, etc.... gays and lesbians are simply a target....

I advocate that people who are maligned in society SHOULD BE TREATED with dignity and respect...novel concept isn't it????

Your heterosexuality is not the issue here. That is correct.

You confuse fairness among humans with righteous in the view of God.

Nowhere does God advocate (as you seem to allege) that calling a person a "sinner" ipso facto is a license to be uncivil. All persons deserve respect for they are all created by God.

But that does not mean that all persons act godly, or honor him in their mind or body. For that they pay the price of their sinful lifestyle. That is not "venom for gays" but truth.

Truly sorry if you dislike the Word of the Just, Holy, Loving and Righteous God. I present it, you seem to reject it. But that is why God gave us free will. We pay for our choices in this life in the after life eternally. Please choose wisely.

 

[catlover]

Your heterosexuality is not the issue here. That is correct.

You confuse fairness among humans with righteous in the view of God.

Nowhere does God advocate (as you seem to allege) that calling a person a "sinner" ipso facto is a license to be uncivil. All persons deserve respect for they are all created by God.

But that does not mean that all persons act godly, or honor him in their mind or body. For that they pay the price of their sinful lifestyle. That is not "venom for gays" but truth.

Truly sorry if you dislike the Word of the Just, Holy, Loving and Righteous God. I present it, you seem to reject it. But that is why God gave us free will. We pay for our choices in this life in the after life eternally. Please choose wisely.

I am sorry your God is an angry vengeful God.

 

[JohnT]

I am sorry that you believe a cartoon image of God.

Have you actually read the Bible, or do you merely throw stones at your cartoon image of God?

 

[Texas Lynn]

I am sorry your God is an angry vengeful God.

God ultimately becomes a Rosarsch test for people. If they want an angry, vengeful God, that's what they say he is. If they want a God of Love and approach others with a gentle, loving nature, that is how they see God.

 

[KCKID]

God ultimately becomes a Rosarsch test for people. If they want an angry, vengeful God, that's what they say he is. If they want a God of Love and approach others with a gentle, loving nature, that is how they see God.

I don't want to derail the thread with another issue but the following, I think, is relevant as it concerns the perceptions that individuals have of God . I wonder how many of the more militant 'anti-gay' Christians also believe in a God that condemns 'the lost' to literal everlasting torment?

Maybe I should start a new thread. I AM genuinely curious.

 

[catlover]

I am sorry that you believe a cartoon image of God.

Have you actually read the Bible, or do you merely throw stones at your cartoon image of God?

You view love and justice as a cartoon image? That's too bad.

 

[JohnT]

Have you ever read the Bible. catlover?

 

[Texas Lynn]

I don't want to derail the thread with another issue but the following, I think, is relevant as it concerns the perceptions that individuals have of God . I wonder how many of the more militant 'anti-gay' Christians also believe in a God that condemns 'the lost' to literal everlasting torment?

Maybe I should start a new thread. I AM genuinely curious.

That might be a good new thread to start. I know those who condemn LGBTs tend to hold themselves in low esteem and fear "hell" to a bizarre extent.

 

[JohnT]

That might be a good new thread to start. I know those who condemn LGBTs tend to hold themselves in low esteem and fear "hell" to a bizarre extent.

If you are a trained social worker, you should know how unethical that statement is to make.

If you are not a trained social worker, practicing pop psychology in an effort to make an ad hominem attack on an entire group of people is also unethical.

Nevertheless, to call that entire group of Christians "bizarre" just because they do not accept your beliefs is intolerant, and is an exercise in self justification at the expense of the other. That is properly called bigoted behavior, and if that is your practice, you should not be practicing social work.

Therefore, no matter how you slice it, your remark is uncalled for, and should merit the attention of a moderator.

 

[catlover]

Have you ever read the Bible. catlover?

yes

 

[JohnT]

yes

Then which parts in the Bible do you believe says that God is "angry and vengeful"? (inferring unnecessarily so, in the eyes of catlover, the judger of God)

 

[Texas Lynn]

The Old Testament is full of allegations of an angry tribal god behind the Hebrew tribe, having children consumed by she-bears for making fun of a prophet's bald head and the like. None of this should be construed as revealing much about the nature of God, though they reveal much of the primitive culture which spawned such things.

 

[katautumn]

JohnT, I would highly encourage you to read my response to CARM's article on homosexuality in this post: http://christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=47416412&postcount=36

I believe you may have overlooked it. And for the sake of civil discourse, would it be possible for you to cease threatening members who try and engage you in discussion with reporting them, when you're doing your fair share of flaming yourself? Thanks

 

[JohnT]

I read it, but dismissed it as cherry picking, and not exegesis of the real words and intents of the original language.

Granted, the Bible does not support homosexuality

An absolutely true statement. Where has God changed his mind? Your analogy that follows is mere opinion and does not take into consideration the moral vs ceremonial law, which bonzai comes under.

As to Lynn's statement, my comment is an accurate description of her post. Suppose you replace "fundamental Christians" with blacks, Puertoricans or Polaks, etc then you can see how bigoted her statement is.

When starting work on my second masters, in counseling, that was one of the things we were taught first: ethics. So I called her on that.

There is no defense for bigotry. Oh wait! It is OK if it is against fundamentalist Christians, right??

Gimme a break!!

 

[KCKID]

It needs to be pointed out YET AGAIN (sigh) that one's sexual orientation as in 'one's sexual attraction to a specific gender' is NOT addressed in the Bible. If anything is condemned it is (or was) the act of SODOMY. The word 'homosexual' was wrongly used to replace the original equivalent to the word 'sodomy'. This would mean that unless someone is practicing sodomy they can hold hands, they can hug, they can kiss, they can fondle, they can . . .well, they can show their affection in a number of ways with whomever they choose that is not 'scripturally criticized' ...that is, with the other's consent, of course.

My advice to Christians is to leave homosexual people alone and to get on with your own lives. What one does in privacy is THEIR business and NOT yours! Understand? I'm sure that no one wants to know what intimacies YOU get up to in privacy either. It seems to me after the weeks I've spent on this forum that many Christians are obsessed with sex and they need to get a grip on themselves. THEY are the problem ...not those who they point the finger at.

That was simple advice given in simple English.