"But take heed; behold, I have told you everything in advance.

[jeffweeder]

If indeed Jesus has told us all things concerning his 2nd coming, then in it we should find the "rapture", as Paul would dare not add to a already complete account, ....would he...


For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in[11][Lit through ] Jesus.
http://www.christianforums.com/15 For this we say to you BY THE WORD OF THE LORD, that we who are alive and[12][Lit who ] remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.

http://www.christianforums.com/16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout[13][Or cry of command ], with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
http://www.christianforums.com/17 Then we who are alive and[14][Lit who ] remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
http://www.christianforums.com/18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.


1st one to post what paul is here refering to, according to the lords own word on it, gets 1000 blessings..

So the lords word on the rapture is....

 

[inhisdebt]

If indeed Jesus has told us all things concerning his 2nd coming, then in it we should find the "rapture", as Paul would dare not add to a already complete account, ....would he...


For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in[11][Lit through ] Jesus.
15 For this we say to you BY THE WORD OF THE LORD, that we who are alive and[12][Lit who ] remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.

16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout[13][Or cry of command ], with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and[14][Lit who ] remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.


1st one to post what paul is here refering to, according to the lords own word on it, gets 1000 blessings..

So the lords word on the rapture is....

Paul is refering tho the return of christ with the souls of the dead in christ at the second coming of the lord, on the day of the lord. Good post by the way, have you traced out the, redemption draweth nigh angle in lukes account of these events luke 21. the lords word on the rapture is post,

 

[jeffweeder]

hi inhisdebt
so you mean this

29 "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the[18][Or heaven ] sky, and the powers of the[19][Or heaven ] heavens will be shaken.
http://www.christianforums.com/30 "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
http://www.christianforums.com/31 "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect[20][Or chosen ones ] from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

This is where paul gets his rapture from?

 

[inhisdebt]

hi inhisdebt
so you mean this

29 "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the[18][Or heaven ] sky, and the powers of the[19][Or heaven ] heavens will be shaken.
30 "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
31 "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect[20][Or chosen ones ] from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

This is where paul gets his rapture from?

Yes,There and many other OT referances, we often seem to forget the promise was given to the jews by the ot prophets first, in fact pauls teaching actualy looks closer to that of joel or Isaiah.

 

[jeffweeder]

JOEL
That I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind[17][Lit flesh ];
And your sons and daughters will prophesy,
Your old men will dream dreams,
Your young men will see visions.
http://www.christianforums.com/29 "Even on the male and female servants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days.
30 "I will display wonders in the sky and on the earth,
Blood, fire and columns of smoke.
http://www.christianforums.com/31 "The sun will be turned into darkness
And the moon into blood
Before the great and awesome day of the LORD comes.
http://www.christianforums.com/32 "And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the LORD
Will be delivered;
For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
There will be those who escape,
As the LORD has said,
Even among the survivors whom the LORD calls.

YES INDEED, note the last sentence

 

[inhisdebt]

JOEL
That I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind[17][Lit flesh ];
And your sons and daughters will prophesy,
Your old men will dream dreams,
Your young men will see visions.
29 "Even on the male and female servants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days.
30 "I will display wonders in the sky and on the earth,
Blood, fire and columns of smoke.
31 "The sun will be turned into darkness
And the moon into blood
Before the great and awesome day of the LORD comes.
32 "And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the LORD
Will be delivered;
For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
There will be those who escape,
As the LORD has said,
Even among the survivors whom the LORD calls.

YES INDEED, note the last sentence

Here is my favorite

Joel2v1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;
2 A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.
3 A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.
4 The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run.
5 Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array.
6 Before their face the people shall be much pained: all faces shall gather blackness.
7 They shall run like mighty men; they shall climb the wall like men of war; and they shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks:
8 Neither shall one thrust another; they shall walk every one in his path: and when they fall upon the sword, they shall not be wounded.
9 They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief.
10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
11 And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?
12 Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning:
13 And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil.
14 Who knoweth if he will return and repent, and leave a blessing behind him; even a meat offering and a drink offering unto the LORD your God?
15 Blow the trumpet in Zion, sanctify a fast, call a solemn assembly: Last trump
16 Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet. (Grave)

 

[jeffweeder]

They're both in chapter 2, awesome stuff.
hey, i nearly posted the whole book

 

[inhisdebt]

I understand the OT referances clear up all the grey areas but it is so hard to get anyone to research it. No one studies to find the answers anymore, they just look for support of what there position is.Taking one tidbit from revelation or danial and then wrapp there entire understanding around it. 1/3 of the OT is prophacy but to most of these peaple danial is the only book they ever use. Ive found applicable scriptures in Genesis,leviticus, actualy one of my favorites is in joshua.

 

[jeffweeder]

Look at the lords own word on it.
He is warning that we will be the objects of the worlds hate, because of his name ,till he comes again. So endure to the end.

http://www.christianforums.com/9 "But be[6][Lit look to yourselves ] on your guard; for they will deliver you to the courts[7][Or Sanhedrin or Council ], and you will be flogged in the synagogues, and you will stand before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them.
http://www.christianforums.com/10 "The gospel must first be preached to all the nations.
http://www.christianforums.com/11 "When they arrest[8][Lit lead ] you and hand you over, do not worry beforehand about what you are to say, but say whatever is given you in that hour; for it is not you who speak, but it is the Holy Spirit.
http://www.christianforums.com/12 "Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and have[9][Lit put them to death ] them put to death.
http://www.christianforums.com/13 "You will be hated by all because of My name, but the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

THE END IN MK 13

See to it that no one misleads you.
http://www.christianforums.com/6 "Many will come in My name, saying, 'I am He!' and will mislead many.
http://www.christianforums.com/7 "When you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be frightened; those things must take place; but that is not yet the end.

You will be hated by all because of My name, but the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.



24 "But in those days, after that tribulation, THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT,
http://www.christianforums.com/25 AND THE STARS WILL BE FALLING from heaven, and the powers that are in the[14][Or heaven ] heavens will be shaken.
http://www.christianforums.com/26 "Then they will see THE SON OF MAN COMING IN CLOUDS with great power and glory.
http://www.christianforums.com/27 "And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect[15][Or chosen ones ] from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven.