Busting the myth that gays can't change....

[beechy]

Why it is important:
It is important to understanding people, why they are like they are, and how they act. This topic has all of those things going for it. Especially because some people don't see the research as clearly as I do.

At least your vision is clear to you.

That is to say, people get involved in what is said, when all that is unknown is contained in what is not said.

What? We know what we say and don't know what we don't say? That reminds me of those wise sages, Milli Vanilli, who observed in "Girl You Know It's True": Together we are one, separated we are two .... deep.

There is also the point to remember of how the experiment is designed, and I designed experiments.

Um, okay.

I've also done statistics...etc.

I can play the piano.

Not that people with their mind set on what this science is going to end up saying will usually listen, but surely the research if far from done.

I don't understand the part of your sentence that comes before the comma, but I agree with the clause after the comma.

 

[fated]

At least your vision is clear to you.

Why, what do you see?

What? We know what we say and don't know what we don't say? That reminds me of those wise sages, Milli Vanilli, who observed in "Girl You Know It's True": Together we are one, separated we are two .... deep.

People generally add certainty to scientific studies and definitions that are uncertain.

Um, okay.

I can play the piano.

I love listening to the piano. My mom used to play when I was a kid.

I don't understand the part of your sentence that comes before the comma, but I agree with the clause after the comma.

People come to the subject matter with preconceived notions and see what they want to.

 

[Skaloop]

People come to the subject matter with preconceived notions and see what they want to.

Which is not much of a problem if there are measures in place to eliminate those biases and keep things objective. Measures like those used in science!

 

[Ramona]

Well said !!! Thanks for sharing your family's pain as personal as it is..it will help some that read this.

A million billion hugs for you!!

x 10929072350939

Probably would have been a lot easier without the huge lie.

Oh wow. How compassionate. We're talking about human beings here, not silly statistics that mean nothing. I don't care about "research" when lives are being ruined. I am human. I am talking about my family. They are human. You are reducing my loved ones to numbers, and frankly, that is unacceptable.

 

[CriticalMassKitten]

It's generally refered to as "coming out" or "embracing their homosexuality" when a person who has lived as a heterosexual changes and enters into a homosexual lifestyle.

Oh so it's all a lie that I have never felt feelings for a girl, but only for guys? Hmm, funny, I never knew. I really do hate it when people think for others, and somehow know they're lying without being in the same situation. Usually the "living a heterosexual lifestyle" is the lie if someone comes out. Funny though, I don't recall making any changes in my lifestyle what-so-ever when I did.

 

[IzzyPop]

Probably would have been a lot easier without the huge lie.

Wow. Are you naturally this insensitive or do you have to practice at it? Someone just tells you something personal and meaningful and that is what you come back with? For the most part I have enjoyed our discussions, but this puts everything in a different light. You should feel ashamed of yourself.

 

[beechy]

Why, what do you see?

Honestly, I find many of your posts quite confusing. And I'm still unsure as to your position on various issues.

People generally add certainty to scientific studies and definitions that are uncertain.

What does this have to do with your statement about the unknown being contained in what is not said?

People come to the subject matter with preconceived notions and see what they want to.

Mm hmm.

 

[johnlf]

Of course sodomites can changed if they get saved and any demons they have are cast out. Paul clearly says:

6:9

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

6:10

Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

6:11

And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

King James Version of the Bible
Book of 1 Corinthians
Chapter 6

So some of the Corinthians were effeminate and abusers of themselves with mankind, a clear reference to the practice of sodomy. So yes, sodomites can be saved when they trust Jesus. But why is it so important to them that they deny the fact that they can change? Simply because if it is admitted then all of their lies about being a special class of people go out the window. They just become another sinner who is bound by a particular sexual perversion.

How about people who have sex with animals? Are they born that way? Do we need to set up laws to allow them to marry an animal? Haha how silly. Just as silly as what the sodomites are asking for to justify their sexual perversions. Instead they need to repent and trust Jesus.

 

[KomissarSteve]

Of course sodomites can changed

Scientific evidence indicates that you're wrong; no scientific evidence indicates that you're right.

if they get saved and any demons they have are cast out.

Demons do not cause homosexuality.

 

[TheManeki]

Of course sodomites can changed if they get saved and any demons they have are cast out. Paul clearly says:

6:9

Wow. I think I Corinthians 6 should also become part of a homosexuality PRATT, since it's so frequently misused.

SimplyMe has a very astute rebuttal to this erroneous interpretation at http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=36969220&postcount=90

If you don't want to read it in full, here are highlights:

1 Corinthians uses 2 different words that are sometimes (not always) translated by Biblical scholars as homosexual. One of the words is "malakos" the other word is "arsenokoites".

Malakos is the ancient Greek word meaning soft. It is translated this way in Matthew 11:8, in which it talks of soft or fine raiment or fine clothes. The other usage of malakos in ancient Greek is to talk of someone who is soft morally -- on these boards the way it would be phrased is someone with situational morals. The word was not used in Greek to mean homosexual.

Arsenokoites is a word that Paul appears to have made up, it appears only a few other times in Greek writings and, from what we can tell, all of them after Paul used it. Worse, none of these writings give us any further clues as to what the meaning is -- like Paul's usage, they are lists of immoral actions. Now, if Paul had truly meant homosexual, it seems far more likely that he'd use a word that we today understand (as well as his audience) as homosexual. There were six different Greek words that meant homosexual. The word that he likely would have used if he wanted people to understand that he meant all homosexual sex is "paidophilia". Rather, it would appear that while he does mean sex between two males, it is more likely either sex with prostitutes or adultery with a man. And just for reference, 1 Timothy also uses arsenokoites.

 

[IzzyPop]

Of course sodomites can changed if they get saved and any demons they have are cast out.

Man thats some evidence you have to come up with. First you have to show that homosexuals can change, and that demons exist. Do you mind if I do something else while you look up the extra-biblical references on that? I do have other plans for the day. But do get back to me when you find them. Thanks.

Paul clearly says:

6:9

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

6:10

Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

So if you're butch, you can get into heaven? Just the bottoms are out? Sucks for them.

6:11

And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

King James Version of the Bible
Book of 1 Corinthians
Chapter 6

So some of the Corinthians were effeminate and abusers of themselves with mankind, a clear reference to the practice of sodomy.

Not clear at all. What about lesbians? Are they okay? And if so, why differenciate? And if not, how do they fit into that verse?

So yes, sodomites can be saved when they trust Jesus. But why is it so important to them that they deny the fact that they can change? Simply because if it is admitted then all of their lies about being a special class of people go out the window. They just become another sinner who is bound by a particular sexual perversion.

Why is it so important that you denigrate an entire group with the word sodomite? Simply because it helps remind you that they are not people? Because it make you fell better about yourself to know that your God despises someone and it is not you?

How about people who have sex with animals? Are they born that way? Do we need to set up laws to allow them to marry an animal? Haha how silly. Just as silly as what the sodomites are asking for to justify their sexual perversions. Instead they need to repent and trust Jesus.

Can we say 'straw man'? Good, I thought we could.

 

[Ramona]

Edit: What?? I can't hotlink to Laughing Quaker??? THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!

 

[KomissarSteve]

Edit: What?? I can't hotlink to Laughing Quaker??? THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!

*wailing Jew*

 

[Ramona]

*AlanGurvey*

Fixed.

 

[mpok1519]

focus on supporting one's self rather than focusing on getting rid of their problems.

 

[selfinflikted]

What? We know what we say and don't know what we don't say? That reminds me of those wise sages, Milli Vanilli, who observed in "Girl You Know It's True": Together we are one, separated we are two .... deep.

Wow. Rofl. Reps to you for even remembering these lyrics. This brought back fond memories... remember when Milli Vanilli were cool?

 

[IzzyPop]

Wow. Rofl. Reps to you for even remembering these lyrics. This brought back fond memories... remember when Milli Vanilli were cool?

No.

 

[selfinflikted]

No.

Maybe you're right. I downloaded the song just now for old times sake.. total cheese.

 

[MarcusHill]

Remember when we used to think Milli Vanilli sang for real?

 

[IzzyPop]

Remember when we used to think Milli Vanilli sang for real?

That I do remember. I remember them have to return a Grammy. Didn't one of them off themselves a few years back?