Busting the myth that gays can't change....

[Netbug009]

I think there are people who CHOOSE to live a homosexual lifestyle for a variety of reasons. It is possible to "Change" them because being gay isn't necessarily "who they are" but "who they want to be seen as".

That said, there are a lot of people who are just, no going around it, attracted to people of the same sex.

You cannot change them. You C-a-n-n-o-t change them. You can only cause severe psychological damage.

She didn't just choose it. She was married then was forced to come out of the closet. She knew that it would complicate everybody's life, but she didn't have a choice.

And Robbie, I'm not lying. One of the people in this couple was my mom. I know what I'm talking about. I don't lie. It's against the Bible and IMO I'd much rather just be honest with people.

But according to your beliefs, homosexuality is not a sin, and since my beliefs threaten yours, you immediately call it a lie because you refuse to beleive that homosexuality is curable.

 

[KomissarSteve]

And Robbie, I'm not lying. One of the people in this couple was my mom. I know what I'm talking about.

I don't think you're lying at all - I believe you are 100% sincere in what you say - but on the other hand, just because this is your mom doesn't mean that you know what you're talking about. Which is not to suggest that you're stupid or ignorant or anything of the sort, mind you; human sexuality is just a very, very confusing thing, and it sounds like your mom is either confused (or was confused), or else her relationship with this woman just happened to go the course of most lesbian relationships and stopped being sexual after a few years.

 

[Netbug009]

Or God healed her, but that's not possible because there's no way that those of us who beleive it is a curable sin could be right about it.

Sorry, tha sounds REALLY rude, but I' frustrated. I'm sick of hearing how Christians like me choose to deny stuff that doesn't fit their beleifs and then look what happens when I bring up something that goes against other's beliefs.

 

[KomissarSteve]

Or God healed her, but that's not possible because there's no way that those of us who beleive it is a curable sin could be right about it.

How can you expect us to believe that it is "curable" without any scientific evidence, though? You have to see this from our viewpoint. There is a mountain of evidence which very strongly indicates that human beings simply cannot change their sexual orientations; on the flip side of the coin, there is a similar mountain of evidence that attempts by fundamentalist Christian groups to change human sexuality through reparative therapy not only doesn't work, but may cause psychological trauma in the process. Again, think about it from our point of view - how can you expect us to believe that your perception of what happened with your mother is accurate?

Now, don't get me wrong - I believe VERY strongly in a benevolent God, and I do believe that He interacts in our lives. I DO believe that, if He wanted to, He could easily change your mother's sexual orientation. But even if He had - and if you believe that that's what He did, who am I to say that you're wrong? - it's clearly not something that one can count on; look at all the veterans of the "ex-gay" movement who have ended up turning back to the homosexual lifestyle, especially those who had previously been leaders of that movement. Don't you think they sincerely prayed to God and begged Him to change their sexual orientations?

And yet He didn't. So God clearly has a plan for at least SOME non-heteros to remain not-straight, and for the people in the ex-gay movement to continue to claim that reparative therapy can work, just, as MachZer0 says, so they can "keep hope alive", really ends up doing a disservice to their would-be patients. Not to mention the damage it does to Christianity's credibility as a whole, when that reparative therapy ends up being a harmful placebo.

 

[Netbug009]

I don't think it's God's plan for anybody to continue to sin (and that's what I beleive it is) personally. However, that doesn't mean I think the moment you become Christian you will easily be aqble to suddenly stop being gay. Tha's unreasonable. As a former bi-questioning, I sometimes hav issues with Satan putting homosexual thoughts in my mind. God's slowly healing them, but it takes time for me. Mom was a miracle case. I don't expect that to be the norm. I'm just saying that's a case that I saw.

 

[KomissarSteve]

I don't think it's God's plan for anybody to continue to sin (and that's what I beleive it is) personally. However, that doesn't mean I think the moment you become Christian you will easily be aqble to suddenly stop being gay. Tha's unreasonable. As a former bi-questioning, I sometimes hav issues with Satan putting homosexual thoughts in my mind. God's slowly healing them, but it takes time for me. Mom was a miracle case. I don't expect that to be the norm. I'm just saying that's a case that I saw.

Are you sure it's Satan that's doing that? All the scientific evidence indicates that those urges are natural, given the different physiological characteristics of gays, as compared to straights. In other words, all the evidence points towards God having MADE you that way.

 

[Beanieboy]

Or God healed her, but that's not possible because there's no way that those of us who beleive it is a curable sin could be right about it.

Sorry, tha sounds REALLY rude, but I' frustrated. I'm sick of hearing how Christians like me choose to deny stuff that doesn't fit their beleifs and then look what happens when I bring up something that goes against other's beliefs.

I had a very good friend that was lesbian, and was going to come out to her mom, when she met a guy that she really loved. She even married him.

Did she "become" straight? No. She identifies as bisexual. She is still attracted to women, but is with her husband because of who he is, and not his gender, necessarily.

One might argue that she's been "healed", and "become straight", but she still considers herself bisexual, even though she lives a monogamous heterosexual "lifestyle". She still goes to GLBT Pride, and is very understanding of people who are gay.

Sexuality is indeed a complicated thing.
Do people change?

Most gay people have had boyfriends or girlfriends in high school, but didn't suddenly "change" when they came out. Nor will they say that even if they had a sexual relationship, that they were heterosexual then. They were just living as a heterosexual. Big difference. They often go along with social pressures, even if it is against their nature, just to fit in, to please their friends, to avoid ridicule or worse, etc.

If you say that your mom went from 100% lesbian to 100% heterosexual, I would be curious if it is your opinion, or what she herself has said. If she has truly done a 180, then she should be a poster child for change.

I have yet to meet 1 - even 1 - person personally who "used to be gay." I have met gay men who used to be married and had children (they were trying to be straight.) I have met lesbians who have dated men, and found they were bisexual. I have heard about men meeting up with married men, so I will count that as bisexual or closeted. I have met a few men in my 20s that "found Jesus, and changed", only to be having an affair with a sponsor, or see them a few years later with their boyfriend.

But not one person that has "changed." If I had met a lot of other people that were "former homosexuals" it would be easier to believe.

 

[Netbug009]

If you say that your mom went from 100% lesbian to 100% heterosexual, I would be curious if it is your opinion, or what she herself has said. If she has truly done a 180, then she should be a poster child for change.

From what she's said. Originaly Mom diverorsed Dad because she was lesbian. She turned to Christ and stopped being gay. This is frm what she said. Her sister doesn't beleive people can change either, and she gets upset when her sister says this because she knows she has changed.

 

[Mumei]

They did not change their sexual orientation. They simply stopped having sex, which is something that many lesbian couples are known to do after a few years anyway.

For women in general, relationships are about the emotional connection over the physical. In a female-female relationship, it is typical for sex to play a secondary role after a short period of time, given that.

(I felt like reiterating. <.<)

 

[AuraTwilight]

From what she's said. Originaly Mom diverorsed Dad because she was lesbian. She turned to Christ and stopped being gay. This is frm what she said. Her sister doesn't beleive people can change either, and she gets upset when her sister says this because she knows she has changed.

Are you sure she didn't just find herself attracted to your father and thought she was a lesbian because of it, but was infact bisexual?

 

[Netbug009]

Are you sure she didn't just find herself attracted to your father and thought she was a lesbian because of it, but was infact bisexual?

She had lots of guy friends back when she was a lesbian. Never had feelings for any of them as far as I am aware.

 

[Mumei]

She had lots of guy friends back when she was a lesbian. Never had feelings for any of them as far as I am aware.

You're sixteen. I'm sorry, but I didn't pay any mind to whether my family members found anyone attractive or not, and it wasn't as though it was an issue we discussed.

The fact that you didn't notice it means little. The fact that your mother's relationship became relatively celibate means little. You've provided no reason to believe that your interpretation is accurate.

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

Or God healed her, but that's not possible because there's no way that those of us who beleive it is a curable sin could be right about it.

Now you're getting the picture.

 

[Bombila]

Even if there was a possibility of homosexuals changing their orientation, even if there was a medical therapy to change the physiological (brain) differences between homosexuals and heterosexuals, there would still be no good reason for a gay person to undergo such treatment except for religious reasons.

Homosexuality is only harmful in that some segments of society condemn it, and that is what should be changed.

 

[silentreader]

Why does this even matter?

I don't need a study to believe that a very small part of the population depending on the environmental stimulus can in fact change their sexuality.

I agree with the OP, in that it's a myth that people can't change. However, the percentage of people that can and do are so miniscule that it's pointless to discuss.

so it all comes down to percentages huh? nevermind the freedom that, you agree, could be granted to someone.

the majority of alcoholics don't get free either...should we shut down alcoholics anonymous?

 

[IzzyPop]

so it all comes down to percentages huh? nevermind the freedom that, you agree, could be granted to someone.

Freedom from what? Other people's judgment of their private lives?

 

[silentreader]

Freedom from what? Other people's judgment of their private lives?

freedom from the bondage that comes with homosexuality. fyi, just because I don't believe homosexuality to be ok doesn't mean i am judging anyone. i don't believe polygamy to be ok either. there are lots of things God tells me are unnatural and sin. but He also clearly tells me to love the sinner and hate the sin. of course, liberals will tell me that is impossible.

 

[levi501]

so it all comes down to percentages huh? nevermind the freedom that, you agree, could be granted to someone.

the majority of alcoholics don't get free either...should we shut down alcoholics anonymous?

homosexuality has no proven harm unlike alcoholism.

 

[silentreader]

homosexuality has no proven harm unlike alcoholism.

strawman. it doesn't have to have scientifically proven harm. many homosexuals want to change and be free from the lifestyle. that is all that is required.

so i ask the question again...is it just percentages that determine what is important?

 

[SimplyMe]

strawman. it doesn't have to have scientifically proven harm. many homosexuals want to change and be free from the lifestyle. that is all that is required.

so i ask the question again...is it just percentages that determine what is important?

But this is a straw man. Why does a person need to change their sexual orientation to change their lifestyle? Are you claiming that heterosexuals that are addicted to sex or out nightly cruising singles bars need to change their sexual orientation to "be free from the lifestyle"? Not only is it a straw man, it is not logical.