Busting the myth that gays can't change....

[fated]

It's so apparent, and has reached such a complete consensus among the scientific community, that arguing that sexual orientation can be changed is completely and utterly pointless.



And those sources are non-scientific entities who have been proven to cause harm to homosexuals who do not want to be homosexuals, like the Ex-Gay Movement.



Mmmmm, no it isn't: http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbc/publications/justthefacts.html

What exactly in that source contradicts something that I have said?

 

[beechy]

One allows you to blame society for the lack of acceptance. The other makes you bear, at least part, of the responsibility.

Why should I bear the "responsibility" for society's lack of acceptance if my homosexuality is a choice? Are you saying that my homosexuality would be deserving of societal rejection if I chose it? Why?

Also, do you believe your attraction to the opposite sex is something you chose? Can you choose to find a man romantically attractive?

 

[fated]

Why should I bear the "responsibility" for society's lack of acceptance if my homosexuality is a choice? Are you saying that my homosexuality would be deserving of societal rejection if I chose it? Why?

Also, do you believe your attraction to the opposite sex is something you chose? Can you choose to find a man romantically attractive?

Let's see:
I don't get the whole it's a choice/they're born with it argument. Why is the question of whether you want to have sexual relations with someone of the same sex because of choice relevant at all?

I said:
One allows you to blame society for the lack of acceptance. The other makes you bear, at least part, of the responsibility.

Let's consider this in terms of "if you are black"...

Being black allows you to blame society for the lack of acceptance.

Choosing to be black makes you bear, at least part, of the responsibility for the lack of acceptance.

I think that is pretty good. It revolves, not around what other people do, but what the person's perspective is.

 

[IzzyPop]

Let's see:
I don't get the whole it's a choice/they're born with it argument. Why is the question of whether you want to have sexual relations with someone of the same sex because of choice relevant at all?

I said:
One allows you to blame society for the lack of acceptance. The other makes you bear, at least part, of the responsibility.

Let's consider this in terms of "if you are black"...

Being black allows you to blame society for the lack of acceptance.

Choosing to be black makes you bear, at least part, of the responsibility for the lack of acceptance.

I think that is pretty good. It revolves, not around what other people do, but what the person's perspective is.

How does one choose to be black? You have got to be kidding.

 

[m9lc]

Let's see:
I don't get the whole it's a choice/they're born with it argument. Why is the question of whether you want to have sexual relations with someone of the same sex because of choice relevant at all?

I said:
One allows you to blame society for the lack of acceptance. The other makes you bear, at least part, of the responsibility.

Let's consider this in terms of "if you are black"...

Being black allows you to blame society for the lack of acceptance.

Choosing to be black makes you bear, at least part, of the responsibility for the lack of acceptance.

I think that is pretty good. It revolves, not around what other people do, but what the person's perspective is.

Even if it is a choice, that doesn't mean we should illegalize it.

Interracial relationships are a total choice. Yet they're legal. Why? Because there's no good reason to ban them. It's the same with gay marriage.

 

[beechy]

Let's see:
I don't get the whole it's a choice/they're born with it argument. Why is the question of whether you want to have sexual relations with someone of the same sex because of choice relevant at all?

I said:
One allows you to blame society for the lack of acceptance. The other makes you bear, at least part, of the responsibility.

Let's consider this in terms of "if you are black"...

Being black allows you to blame society for the lack of acceptance.

Choosing to be black makes you bear, at least part, of the responsibility for the lack of acceptance.

I think that is pretty good. It revolves, not around what other people do, but what the person's perspective is.

What in the world are you talking about? Black people choose to be black? If you choose to be black you have to accept responsibility for society not accepting your choice to be black? What?

 

[mpok1519]

only one individual can help theirself.

why focus on the whole gay issue when theres a kajillion other issues? I think homosexuality has become a thorn in Christianity's side when no single one sin should ever be given so much time and attention.

just love your fellow human regardless of their sin.....thats ALL you can do.

 

[fated]

How does one choose to be black? You have got to be kidding.

You can't choose whether or not you are black. But, if you knew that people would be harsh on you, and chose to be black anyway, that would be due to what you have done. It still wouldn't make racial bias right.

Similarly if someone chooses to tell the truth, and people don't accept that, he is partly to blame for his own situation.

(But not if He is the Truth)

 

[beechy]

You can't choose whether or not you are black. But, if you knew that people would be harsh on you, and chose to be black anyway, that would be due to what you have done. It still wouldn't make racial bias right.

So if a person could choose to be black and did so even though he knew that people would "be harsh on him", then he is at least partially to blame for people's harshness. Nice.

Similarly if someone chooses to tell the truth, and people don't accept that, he is partly to blame for his own situation.

So it would have been better if that person told a lie that people accepted?

(But not if He is the Truth)

What?

 

[IzzyPop]

You can't choose whether or not you are black. But, if you knew that people would be harsh on you, and chose to be black anyway, that would be due to what you have done. It still wouldn't make racial bias right.

Nice. Blame the victim. Works well in rape cases, too. Darn uppity women got what they deserved. Whatever.

Similarly if someone chooses to tell the truth, and people don't accept that, he is partly to blame for his own situation.

Other people's ignorance is my fault? Nope. Not buying that, either.

(But not if He is the Truth)

Can we say non sequiter? I thought so.

 

[TheManeki]

Let's just return to the days of the American Traditional Family (TM), seen in nice, upstanding shows like The Adventures of Ozzie and Harriet, The Andy Griffith Show, and Leave it to Beaver.

Except those were just shows, not real life. Things never were as perfect as it was in those shows. Jim Crow laws were pervasive, and women regularly had to deal with harassment.

I've never understood why some people are so disaffected with today (heck, with the past couple of decades) that they either wish for a nostalgic heyday that never existed, or long for the world to perish in armageddon.

 

[fated]

Nice. Blame the victim. Works well in rape cases, too. Darn uppity women got what they deserved. Whatever.

Other people's ignorance is my fault? Nope. Not buying that, either.

Can we say non sequiter? I thought so.

It has to do with how someone sees their own situation. It affects the way they act toward others. It never releases other people from guilt.

 

[fated]

Let's just return to the days of the American Traditional Family (TM), seen in nice, upstanding shows like The Adventures of Ozzie and Harriet, The Andy Griffith Show, and Leave it to Beaver.

Except those were just shows, not real life. Things never were as perfect as it was in those shows. Jim Crow laws were pervasive, and women regularly had to deal with harassment.

I've never understood why some people are so disaffected with today (heck, with the past couple of decades) that they either wish for a nostalgic heyday that never existed, or long for the world to perish in armageddon.

What we do is a question of prudence. Gay culture, can it spread, is it a choice, does it spread, does it cause harm and suffering to people? When is it at its best? It worst?

When someone or something gives up its rights, what could the consequences be? What could it cost? Who will pay? Who will profit?


Free choice is choice, but law should be prudent and justified.

 

[KomissarSteve]

What exactly in that source contradicts something that I have said?

Well, first of all, it should be pretty obvious that the scientific community does NOT respect the assertions of the groups you cited...

 

[beechy]

It has to do with how someone sees their own situation. It affects the way they act toward others. It never releases other people from guilt.

Are you saying that if I saw my homosexuality as a choice then I would be more accepting of other's peoples' prejudices about my choice? You're wrong. I fully acknowledge that it is my choice to be with my same-sex partner. No one forced me to be with her. I love her and I have chosen to spend my life with her. That realization does not make me feel any differently about how I deserve to be treated.

 

[fated]

Well, first of all, it should be pretty obvious that the scientific community does NOT respect the assertions of the groups you cited...

Which assertion is contrary. We should start with one.

 

[TheManeki]

Anyone here ever hear the song "Stuart" by The Dead Milkmen?

You know what, Stuart? I like you. You're not like the other people here in the trailer park. Oh no, don't get me wrong, they're fine people, good Americans...But they don't know what the queers are doing to the soil!

Now Stuart, if you look at the soil around any large U.S. city with a big underground homosexual population - Des Moines, Iowa, perfect example. Look at the soil around Des Moines, Stuart. You can't build on it, you can't grow anything in it. The government says it's due to poor farming. But I know what's really going on, Stuart. I know it's the queers. They're in it with the aliens. They're building landing strips for gay Martians. I swear to God!

 

[EnemyPartyII]

What we do is a question of prudence. Gay culture, can it spread, is it a choice, does it spread, does it cause harm and suffering to people? When is it at its best? It worst?

When someone or something gives up its rights, what could the consequences be? What could it cost? Who will pay? Who will profit?


Free choice is choice, but law should be prudent and justified.

Perhaps if you defined "gay culture"?

 

[fated]

Perhaps if you defined "gay culture"?

So, one cannot define a group of people whatsoever? If I said "LA gay culture"? Fine. Can one use the "Gay demographic" which has several sub-categories? Probably not, eh? I like to call people "people" too. But, I don't get mad about people using statistics to determine what my needs might be. I don't blame them for placing me in a group. What is one to do?

 

[KomissarSteve]

Which assertion is contrary. We should start with one.

"Confusion about sexual orientation is not unusual during adolescence. Counseling may be helpful for young people who are uncertain about their sexual orientation or for those who are uncertain about how to express their sexuality and might profit from an attempt at clarification through a counseling or psychotherapeutic initiative. Therapy directed specifically at changing sexual orientation is contraindicated, since it can provoke guilt and anxiety while having little or no potential for achieving changes in orientation." -The American Academy of Pediatrics.