My brother is in the process of buying a house. Our about to be former ministers wife is the realtor, and my brother is asking me to help him out. You see my brother is the treasurer in the church where we attend, and he is a little short on the downpayment for the house he wants to purchase and he is asking me to take $15,000 from the Pastors wife and then turn around and give it to him. He say's that it may not look good if he takes the money directly from the pastors wife, because of the unfortunate incident that just came to light, that our pastor was having an affair. There is a lot of mistrust in our congregation right now, and my brother tells me that someone might conceive this in the wrong way with all the suspicious minds around right now. Something just doesn't feel right about this, but on the other hand this is my only christian brother, and I know he is always looking out for my best intentions. Should I help him out or not!
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Business transaction!
- Thread starter IHMFIL
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Piano Player
Order of the Candle
If it doesn't feel right take a big step back. Where is the minister's wife getting the money? (Is it a refund of her commission?) You may be defrauding the lendor if they insisted your friend have the downpayment himself. As such you would be morally and legally culpable.IHMFIL said:
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- Oct 23, 2003
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Nope, it's a violation of the compliance act for charities to be giving money to a member as a loan.
How is he doing this by this transaction? A person with nothing to hide hides nothing.
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Something doesn't feel right about any of the threads you start. Assuming this is for real, don't get involved in your brother's problems. He can either do things the honest way, or be dishonest without your help. Don't just take my word for it, ask a lawyer why you should stay out of it. Frankly, I don't think you're for real. Hopefully you'll get bored on this forum soon and find something constructive to do instead. Don't bother trying to prove you're authentic, because I'm already tired of this thread and I won't be checking back. Bye.IHMFIL said:
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The money is coming from the pastors money market fund according to my brother. My brother say's that he is going to pay them back in 20 days when his CD comes to fruition. But I would not be responsible just giving the money right over to my brother right. 
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jenptcfan
My cup runneth over
If the money is coming from your pastor's money market fund, why doesn't the pastor just give the money to your brother? I think you said the problem before was that he didn't want it to seem inappropriate (him taking money from the pastor's wife).IHMFIL said:The money is coming from the pastors money market fund according to my brother. My brother say's that he is going to pay them back in 20 days when his CD comes to fruition. But I would not be responsible just giving the money right over to my brother right.
But my personal opinion is if you can't afford the down payment on something, don't buy it until you can afford to.
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I just think my brother wants possesssion of the house due to one of our siblings is getting married in two weeks and he would like to show off his new home to the rest of the family when they all come into town from out of town for the wedding. I'd like to also add that this has caused some strife in my marriage, since my husband is telling me not to do it because we would be obligated to report the money I received to the IRS and we would have to pay taxes on the 15K, but I know that my husband would do or make up anything in order not to help my brother out.
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Psalm 14:1
Every wise woman buildeth her house: but the foolish plucketh it down with her own hands.
Your husband is giving you wise counsel and again you question his motives! You're brother lacks integrity and has proven to be dishonest, but you would tear down your own house to please him. With the financial risk you are taking on by "helping" him out, you may very well find yourself literally without a house. You have already made it crystal clear that you are unwilling to repent of the disrespect you've shown your husband. Yet, you still appeal to us for support in your selfish behavior. Why?
Every wise woman buildeth her house: but the foolish plucketh it down with her own hands.
Your husband is giving you wise counsel and again you question his motives! You're brother lacks integrity and has proven to be dishonest, but you would tear down your own house to please him. With the financial risk you are taking on by "helping" him out, you may very well find yourself literally without a house. You have already made it crystal clear that you are unwilling to repent of the disrespect you've shown your husband. Yet, you still appeal to us for support in your selfish behavior. Why?
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jenptcfan
My cup runneth over
At least speak to an accountant or financial advisor and find out what the tax implications are before discounting your husband's advice. It's very possible that it could save you a great deal of money.IHMFIL said:I just think my brother wants possesssion of the house due to one of our siblings is getting married in two weeks and he would like to show off his new home to the rest of the family when they all come into town from out of town for the wedding. I'd like to also add that this has caused some strife in my marriage, since my husband is telling me not to do it because we would be obligated to report the money I received to the IRS and we would have to pay taxes on the 15K, but I know that my husband would do or make up anything in order not to help my brother out.
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No I wouldn't do it if it's causing problems already. And you're brother is wrong for putting you in this situation.
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What your brother is doing is a form of manipulation for his own gain and he is drawing you into it. Please listen to your husband who is your covering and advisor. He has given you very sound advice.
I know it's hard to say NO to someone you love, but what he is doing does not sound like it is open and honest.
I would counsel to refuse, especially since your husband does not agree to or support this. This is where your obligation lies.
If it is God's will for your brother to own this home then he will provide a way for him to have the money he needs to do it, and there will be no question as to whether is is ethical.
Takesha
I know it's hard to say NO to someone you love, but what he is doing does not sound like it is open and honest.
I would counsel to refuse, especially since your husband does not agree to or support this. This is where your obligation lies.
If it is God's will for your brother to own this home then he will provide a way for him to have the money he needs to do it, and there will be no question as to whether is is ethical.
Takesha
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Here is what is tearing my heart in two and my brothers: Understand the realtor/pastors wife is going through hell right now, she just found out that her husband has been unfaithful, they just purchased a house for $550K, her husband is about to become unemployed, they have 7 children all in school, her teenage daughter just became pregnant, her husband needs bypass surgery and is about to lose his health insurance and she is starting a carreer in real estate and desperately needs to make a sale to just make the house payment. I feel bad for her and on top of it these people are my brother and sisiter in-laws best friends. How can I not help, being a christian woman and all.
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Well, I am an accountant. Money given as a gift or loan is not reported as income, at least in Canada.jenptcfan said:
As far as the op, what are you on? The money can go straight to your brother, but they don't want it to look bad. Hello? She's the agent. Do it in the office. Close the door. Personally, I can't see how getting more people involved will help, nor why her trouble is even an issue.
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I see you're feeling stuck....but you have to realize that what your brother is asking you to do is wrong. Not only that, but your husband does not approve so it would be wrong of you to go behind his back and do this for your brother. You can help the realtor/pastor's wife by praying for her and her family...and pray for your brother.
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IHMFIL said:
In the US, this may not be legal at all. In a purchase, particuarly an FHA purchase, one must state the source of the downpayment, and certify that it is one's own funds, and not a loan....You haven't given enough info for me to really answer definitely....I close residential loans for a living.
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Money given as a gift or loan does not have to be reported
Thanks, I knew my husband was just making something up to try to manipulate me against my brother. Thanks also that I don't have to consult an attorney or cpa since you are an cpa.
Thanks, I knew my husband was just making something up to try to manipulate me against my brother. Thanks also that I don't have to consult an attorney or cpa since you are an cpa.
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(Pro 3:4) So shalt thou find favor and good understanding In the sight of God and man.
(Pro 3:5) Trust in Jehovah with all thy heart, And lean not upon thine own understanding:
(Pro 3:6) In all thy ways acknowledge him, And he will direct thy paths.
(Pro 3:7) Be not wise in thine own eyes; Fear Jehovah, and depart from evil:
It does not seem to me that anyone is trusting the Lord in this situation. Rather they are trusting in there own strength and wisdom. This always has a bad outcome.
(Phi 4:6) In nothing be anxious; but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
(Phi 4:7) And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall guard your hearts and your thoughts in Christ Jesus.
Takesha
(Pro 3:5) Trust in Jehovah with all thy heart, And lean not upon thine own understanding:
(Pro 3:6) In all thy ways acknowledge him, And he will direct thy paths.
(Pro 3:7) Be not wise in thine own eyes; Fear Jehovah, and depart from evil:
It does not seem to me that anyone is trusting the Lord in this situation. Rather they are trusting in there own strength and wisdom. This always has a bad outcome.
(Phi 4:6) In nothing be anxious; but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
(Phi 4:7) And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall guard your hearts and your thoughts in Christ Jesus.
Takesha
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That accountant is in Canada. Are you in Canada?IHMFIL said:
If you are in the US, here are my questions for you:
1. Is this an FHA loan?
2. If so, is the 15K a loan from the pastor and his wife? If it is, it must be declared as a loan, or else the borrower (your brother) is lying on an application for a federally subsidized loan and if he is found out he could go to jail.
Do I have the situation right?
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And who's looking after the sick grandmother? And why on earth does this have anything to do with a financial transaction? Sorry, doesn't add up.IHMFIL said:Here is what is tearing my heart in two and my brothers: Understand the realtor/pastors wife is going through hell right now, she just found out that her husband has been unfaithful, they just purchased a house for $550K, her husband is about to become unemployed, they have 7 children all in school, her teenage daughter just became pregnant, her husband needs bypass surgery and is about to lose his health insurance and she is starting a carreer in real estate and desperately needs to make a sale to just make the house payment. I feel bad for her and on top of it these people are my brother and sisiter in-laws best friends. How can I not help, being a christian woman and all.
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To the OP:
Please share with us which country you are in....we can't help you if we don't know which laws apply to you. As Christians we are bound to obey the laws of our land, and we cannot give advice that is contrary to that.
Please share with us which country you are in....we can't help you if we don't know which laws apply to you. As Christians we are bound to obey the laws of our land, and we cannot give advice that is contrary to that.
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