Buffy The Vampire Slayer (BTVS)

[AngelusSax]

Thanks, Spike.

So... anyone see any talking hamburger loas today?

 

[SpaceProg]

Nope. Though I heard that if you make them mad, they'll strike you down. Don't want to do that.

 

[Calmness]

OK, my thoughts on Smile Time... It really underscored just how much Angel had gone from Champion to (Lindsay McDonald's words from "Your Welcome") Corporate Puppet.

Sure it was funny on the surface, but this comedy had a point to it. Angel was a corporate puppet... and it got personified as he was trying to reclaim his fame as Champion... though he was still working at W&H.

Plus, now I'm very weary of Sesame Street.... lol

Agreed, and for the Sesame Street first stated by SpaceProg LOL ,

I do agree with you AngelusSax. I also related to it on a very different level. When the thing that ruled the puppets that was "mysterious" and behind the closed door. I viewed that as symbolism for the devil, and the "puppets" as people who do not know Christ, and think(for the most part) they are doing what they want, and living how they want, but are actually the devils "puppets" and soaking the life out of others. I came to this conclusion when, the puppet was controlling the man by having his hand in the mans back. How something that looks good and innocent, can be the exact opposite and deadly. That is just my honest opinion, and maybe I am reading too much into it.

I also found it on the surface so funny, when I saw it the second time, and some of the first time. Puppet Angel was so cute, and if I could have found one I would have bought it lol. When he vamped as the puppet

 

[Idicious]

I must say, I like Angel (the series) a LOT better than Buffy, much more realistic, not just about some teenager slaying vampires, Angel is cool

 

[SpaceProg]

Have to say though... if you look at it deeply, Buffy was more than just about a Teen slaying vamps. Especially the older she got.

 

[Calmness]

Have to say though... if you look at it deeply, Buffy was more than just about a Teen slaying vamps. Especially the older she got.

Usually with TV shows the longer they are on the better. You get more character developement and better writing. I am also a huge X files fan, and now when I watch the first season(it was good for the time when it aired) , I don't view it the same. It became so much more over time.

 

[SpaceProg]

I really need to get the Buffy eps on DVD. I have Angel seasons 1-4. Still... Buffy seems to call. Darn my having a job and the show being on so late at night... >_<.

Anyway, things do tend to get deeper as it goes on. I think about season.. 2 or so, things got more intense. What with Angel going soulless and all. Buffy had some real judgement calls to make then. She was still a 'little girl' then too.

 

[Eudaimonist]

I've seen all of Buffy, and the first season of Angel, and I have to say I am impressed with both so far! And I'm difficult to impress. (Most tv is trash, IMO.)

 

[AngelusSax]

Yes, Buffy is much more than just a teen slaying vampires. Notably, in the first season, there were many episodes where a vampire was nowhere to be seen... this was corrected in season 2 onwards, with at least one vamp-killing scene for a show with "vampire slayer" in the title.

Buffy as a whole was about the transition from high school to adult-hood (really underscored when Joyce died and Giles left for England... the adults gone with the kids having to become the adults).

Now, here's something I'd like to explore. The episode "Lineage" had something very, very powerful in it. Wesley's "father" shows up (a cyborg, really, but no one knows that until the end). Brings out all the daddy-issues. Well, at the end, "Roger" (the cyborg) is trying to get away with some artifact that robs Angel of his free will. Wesley is trying to talk him out of it. Then "Roger" grabs Fred, and Wesley shoots without hesitation, until he's out of bullets. He then throws up, thinking he killed his father, and then sees the glamour wear off, revealing a cyborg.

Here's the part that makes it even more powerful, to me. Fred is trying to console Wes later, saying "part of you knew it wasn't him." He replies (paraphrased):

"I was sure it was him." (It might be a direct quote, I dunno...)

To me, it's more than just the fact he thought Fred was in danger. Sure, he loves Fred... I don't think he loves his father all that much. Inidcations have been that Roger was a very belittling man, and the source of Wes's insecurity. Grabbing Fred was the "final straw", and he took out all his rage on his father at that moment, shooting him until he was out of bullets.

Anyone else get a lump in their throat from that episode?

 

[Heatherondo]

OK, my thoughts on Smile Time... It really underscored just how much Angel had gone from Champion to (Lindsay McDonald's words from "Your Welcome") Corporate Puppet.

Sure it was funny on the surface, but this comedy had a point to it. Angel was a corporate puppet... and it got personified as he was trying to reclaim his fame as Champion... though he was still working at W&H.

Plus, now I'm very weary of Sesame Street.... lol

ya know what i am confused about? i hav no idea how they came to work at W & F, i am waiting for th tnt reruns to tell me lol imagine my confusion! lol

 

[AngelusSax]

ya know what i am confused about? i hav no idea how they came to work at W & F, i am waiting for th tnt reruns to tell me lol imagine my confusion! lol

You'll see it soon enough... it's very impactful, the reason the joining up occurs. At TNT's current rate, you ought to know by the end of February, anyway.

 

[Heatherondo]

Something i like about both shows is there were not a huge amount of cast changes, i hate it when you get a show that runs a long time and most of the cast were additions and most of the originals arent even in the show anymore.

Technically, with the potentials being slayerfied by teh spell, the show, in theory could have continued, we could have continued with Faith, willow, xander and giles

I cant even remember how angel ended except for cordie...


i have no idea how spike was brought back, i have a whole section i havnt seen but saw alot of the last season lol... all i did was get confused, but i dont wanna rent the dvds because i HAVE seen so much of it, ya know? i will just have to keep my 4pm date with tnt i suppose.

every once in a while i see a buffy i havnt seen on fx. I have seen some episodes five or six times lol yet i still watch them lol the only oither show i am like that with is x-files.... oh i loved x-files so much except the episodes with doggett and no mulder felt wrong to me, there was no real acting chemistry there, not liike duchovny and anderson, i read that they plan to do an x-files movie at some point. I cant wait!

OOOH maybe there will eb a buffy/angel movie?? that would rock so hard!

 

[Heatherondo]

You'll see it soon enough... it's very impactful, the reason the joining up occurs. At TNT's current rate, you ought to know by the end of February, anyway.

OH goody!!

i love the everyday episode thing, lol i just wish they did it on weekends too

 

[Calmness]

To me, it's more than just the fact he thought Fred was in danger. Sure, he loves Fred... I don't think he loves his father all that much. Inidcations have been that Roger was a very belittling man, and the source of Wes's insecurity. Grabbing Fred was the "final straw", and he took out all his rage on his father at that moment, shooting him until he was out of bullets.

I thought from the very first time Wes appeared on Buffy that he had some major daddy issues going on. He was awkward, insecure, and trying too hard to convince everyone of his intelligence and to be taken serious. I am not saying that this would hold true in every circumstance, that was just what I how I felt about Wes. It was almost as if he suffered abuse on some level (emotional, physical etc.) He was so unsure and uncomfortable with who he was. When that episode aired (Lineage) it really sealed my belief for me.

again I am not saying just because some suffers with insecurity or they are awkward that they have been abused. It was just something in the way he played it that lead me to that conclusion.

 

[AngelusSax]

again I am not saying just because some suffers with insecurity or they are awkward that they have been abused. It was just something in the way he played it that lead me to that conclusion.

At first, Wes was just supposed to be a little comedic foil, but getting killed after 2 eps into his Buffy days.. Joss changed his mind (thankfully!).

Anyway, the daddy issues were hinted at in other eps. I forget the exact context, but Wes at one point says "A father doesn't need to be posessed to terrorize his children, he just needs to berate them and lock them up under the stairs.... yes it's probably a demon" or something like that.

And you're right, insecurity doesn't always mean abuse. But in the Buffyverse... let's just say dads are not known for being Father Of The Year...

 

[Calmness]

But in the Buffyverse... let's just say dads are not known for being Father Of The Year...

So true!

Were there any positive fathers on Buffy? I believe we only see her dad two or maybe three times. I cannot think of any right now.

The only one on Angel I can remember right now is Fred's father, however naive he may seem, it comes off as he truly loves and wants what is best for his daughter. We only see them twice I believe.

 

[AngelusSax]

Well, Angel could be a candidate for "most loving father", as he was willing to... well, without spoiling anything, if you know what Angel did for Connor at the end of season 4, then I suppose you could say Angel was a good father, even if he didn't always know what to do.

 

[Sam Gamgee]

I LOVE Buffy.
It was one of my favorite shows.

 

[Calmness]

Ooops my bad, I must be sleepy lol, how could I forget Angel.

Yes He was willing to do anything to protect Connor regardless !!!

 

[Idicious]

Can someone please explain to me the relationship between BTVS and Angle? Angle comes after Buffy if I'm not mistaken, but in Buffy Buffy kills Angle, and I thought I heard in Angle Buffy dies, so how does that all work together?