Breaking the Sword of Islam

[Islam_mulia]

The actions are products of the teachings of Islam. So, if I misquote the Koran then muslims are "justified" to hate me? How sure are you they will not persecute me? What proof do you have that Boutros is not?

If you publicly misquote the bible on TV and air and get away with it, will you not be angry?

Nevertheless, Boutros is in the States and possibly sitting more comfortable than most Copts. I do not think he was persecuted there?

You do not know ... and that is because the extremism starts with the teachigs that allow for fanatics to pracitce them.... so like I said before any mulsim can be a future fanatic thus dangerous to society...

That is like saying every christian can be a superman because the bible say the believers can move mountains. Or all Christians could be billionaires if they ask god for it as all you need is to ask and it will be given to you. Or all Christians should be like mice as the bible teaches you to be meek.

The fault is not the Quran as the Quran does not teach extremism. Some Muslims interprete the Quran wrongly as some people read the bible wrongly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWVA_dcvD_8

here is an mulsim (Imam too) converting to Orthodox Christianity...He was almost killed by his father.. and he had to flee.... and still were after him....

And I am afraid this is a typical story....

I dont believe you could fall for this. This Mark Gabriel's background has not be verified. To say he was a professor in Al-Azhar University is highly doubtful.

 

[Tenka]

Indeed! Is Jesus not outspoken and to the point? Whose feelings did He hurt?

Thank you.

Jesus was reputedly without a plank to pluck prior said outspokenness.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

I am curious about Islam.

No, you are not. Your purpose is another, as explained by yourself before. You have no interest in Islam whatsoever - only in proselytizing. Lying for Christ is a sin, too, you know?

Hundreds witnessed the miracles, crucifixion, resurrection and ascension of Jesus and wrote their testimonies, (we have these testimonies in writing).

No you don't. All you have are legends that were circulated (and embellished, and turned into a theological narrative with beginning, middle and ending) for decades before being put to paper by anonymous persons who were clearly not there.

Today in the Middle East, throughout Egypt, Libya and Morocco, hundreds of Muslims are turning to Christianity and forsaking the Qur’an. Why? How?

Why do people become Christians? Mormons? Jehova's Witnesses? Wiccans? Buddhists? Even Scientologists? The reasons for conversion to any religion are manifold, yet - to answer your question - the enormous amount of money that's pumped into missionary work in that region surely has an awful lot to do with it.

Will the Lord reveal Himself to you?

He'd be welcome to if he actually existed, for that'd mean that I made some serious errors of judgment somewhere down the road, and I'd love to be corrected. Alas, I consider that more than highly unlikely.

I would, Lord; reveal Yourself and turn the reader to you. And to this end, in Jesus Christ’s name, I bind all evil from hindering.

Ahmid

A magical spell! How cute! And in the name of the messiah as well!

 

[sidhe]

I think, in the new Aeon, that's an ineffective binding. Just my opinion though. I don't know nothin' bout them magics. Jes' a Southerner, eatin' mah grits an' ham.

*mutters a rather nasty imprecation*

I really shouldn't post before I've had a full two cups of coffee.

Srsly.

That was a weak binding. Something more along the lines of "I bind the evil forces of the world through the power of the Holy Names of God, that they may do only their Will, and keep none from the pursuit of theirs. LAShTAL!" would have been more effective.

But I ain't know nothin'.

...I should start posting as the cornpone magician.

"*spits* Well, what ya got right thar is a Goetic entity that y'all must've summoned on accident, 'cause I figger you kids are smart enough to not've done that on purpose. 'Cept for Billy thar, he's dumb as a post. Anyway, ya ain't got yer Holy Guardian Angel invoked right proper, an' that's why y'all find yerselves in this tight spot. I'd recommend y'all get yerselves a proper magus in here an' perform some kinda banishin' rite. Mah wife's jes pulled a cobbler out the oven, cobbler of light with some of that thar Earl of Abramelin in it an' menstrual blood. Could be right tasty. Why not set a spell an' have some with some home-churned vanilla ice cream? Y'all don't wanna know what's in that. We can talk ourselves up a strategy for yer situation, if'n y'all want."

 

[Catherineanne]

Many bright minds for Christ here. Wish to minister to Muslims? Try islamicboard.com but only email members and pose questions that make them think; do not post a thread or the moderator will take it off. Also take care to use a secure web connection, have Norton and do not use your name. God bless. I am having some success.

Each to his own.

Personally, I see no need to take any such action against Islam. Osama bin Laden and his extremist cronies are doing a perfectly good job of destroying any credibility Islam may have had, bit by bit and bomb by bomb. Moslems know this perfectly well. If Islam actually wants to survive, the only way it can do so is by handing over the terrorists to the appropriate authorities. Otherwise, those who live by the sword will surely die by the sword.

Further than that, all I would contribute is the same as to anyone else.

Lord, have mercy.

 

[Catherineanne]

If you publicly misquote the bible on TV and air and get away with it, will you not be angry?

Why? I choose not to let someone on television have control of my emotions, and prompt me to anger if I choose to not be angry. If you let me control your emotions, IM, you give me sovereignty of your life, and that is blasphemy; you are allowing me to be your god.

Someone else misquoting the Bible has no effect on me, my faith, or my salvation. Their misquote does not change Scripture, any more than misquoting Shakespeare changes his words.

So why should I concern myself with such nonsense?

The fault is not the Quran as the Quran does not teach extremism. Some Muslims interprete the Quran wrongly as some people read the bible wrongly.

Moslems are free to interpret the Koran as they like. They can interpret it to say they all have to stand on their heads every second Tuesday and wave their legs in the air; feel free.

But when it comes to breaking the commandments of God, that is another matter. That is now, and always will be, for any child of Abraham, haram. Such behaviour will not be unpunished.

Therefore, it is a matter of priorities. What matters, and what does not?

 

[Catherineanne]

My question is:
Why do you want to build something by breaking another?
Is that something clever to do? Wasting the time by breaking and saving no time for building??????


Whether Muslims stand in the front, in the middle or at the back this means that they existed and they just need to live a peaceful life not only by their own but with others.

We are just trying to save the Best for Last!

Moslems are welcome to exist, as far as I am concerned. Those I know are, on the whole, very loving, hospitable people, and bear no ressemblance to the image we are offered in the media, and expected to swallow whole. The best antidote to the images is to get to know some Moslems, and find out they do not have three heads, or eat babies.

As for whether Islam is best or not, I would not expect anyone to consider their own faith as second best. But neither do I.

Peace be with you, Dnihila.

 

[Islam_mulia]

Why? I choose not to let someone on television have control of my emotions, and prompt me to anger if I choose to not be angry. If you let me control your emotions, IM, you give me sovereignty of your life, and that is blasphemy; you are allowing me to be your god.

Someone else misquoting the Bible has no effect on me, my faith, or my salvation. Their misquote does not change Scripture, any more than misquoting Shakespeare changes his words.

So why should I concern myself with such nonsense?

Hence, the difference between how a Muslim values and regards the Quran , and how a Christian regards the Bible.

It may be difficult for a Christian to understand the psyche of a Muslim, but that is how a Muslim live and think. We do not need to apologize for being angry that the words of God is being manipulated.

Moslems are free to interpret the Koran as they like. They can interpret it to say they all have to stand on their heads every second Tuesday and wave their legs in the air; feel free.

But when it comes to breaking the commandments of God, that is another matter. That is now, and always will be, for any child of Abraham, haram. Such behaviour will not be unpunished.

Therefore, it is a matter of priorities. What matters, and what does not?

Your understanding, or rather misunderstanding, of Islam is quite obvious.
Muslims do not interprete the Quran as they like. We may not be like some Christians who are at liberty to interprete the bible as what they feel best that conform to their lifestyle.

A "free-thinking" Muslim would fall into the danger of making what is halal become haram, and what is haram become halal.

 

[Secundulus]

It may be difficult for a Christian to understand the psyche of a Muslim, but that is how a Muslim live and think. We do not need to apologize for being angry that the words of God is being manipulated.

The problem is that you only riot and cut off heads when you think the infidel is insulting the Quran. Since you don't riot and cut off heads when Bin Ladin misuses the Quran, that leads us to believe that many of you don't think he is misusing it. You would be more believable if you were consistent.

Your understanding, or rather misunderstanding, of Islam is quite obvious.
Muslims do not interpret the Quran as they like. We may not be like some Christians who are at liberty to interpret the bible as what they feel best that conform to their lifestyle.

Sure you do. You said so yourself in another post when you said that Bin Ladin interprets the Quran differently than you.

 

[Catherineanne]

Hence, the difference between how a Muslim values and regards the Quran , and how a Christian regards the Bible.

It may be difficult for a Christian to understand the psyche of a Muslim, but that is how a Muslim live and think. We do not need to apologize for being angry that the words of God is being manipulated.

Thank you, but I do not misunderstand the psyche at all. It takes very little to understand insecurity and fear, which prompt knee jerk reactions to the smallest imagined provocation; the seige mentality which today's Islam is adopting.

The words of God are not being manipulated when the Koran is misquoted. That which is holy cannot be defiled, for your faith or mine.

If someone misquotes, that does not touch God, so why should it touch you? If you let them control your emotional response, you give away control, and set yourself up to be manipulated.

Your understanding, or rather misunderstanding, of Islam is quite obvious.
Muslims do not interprete the Quran as they like. We may not be like some Christians who are at liberty to interprete the bible as what they feel best that conform to their lifestyle.

A "free-thinking" Muslim would fall into the danger of making what is halal become haram, and what is haram become halal.

Moslems do interpret the Koran in different ways. You can pretend that there is only one interpretation if you want, but it is simply not true. Some interpret it as giving them the right to kill. Thank God most are more reasonable than that.

And I did not say anything about freethinking anything. I said breaking the ten commandments is haram for all of us, and will be judged by God accordingly.

And yet you say I do not understand your psyche or your faith.

I think one of us is certainly misunderstanding something, but it is not I.

 

[Islam_mulia]

The problem is that you only riot and cut off heads when you think the infidel is insulting the Quran. Since you don't riot and cut off heads when Bin Ladin misuses the Quran, that leads us to believe that many of you don't think he is misusing it. You would be more believable if you were consistent.

Seriously, you and many Christians here have a funny way of thinking.

If Bin Laden misinterprete the Quran and I dont cut off people's head, does not mean that I agree with him.

Sure you do. You said so yourself in another post when you said that Bin Ladin interprets the Quran differently than you.

Muslims have respectable scholars who are well versed in the Quran and hadith and their interpretations are the ones that we follow. Hence, the reason why I said earlier "Muslims do not interprete the Quran as they like".

I would like to assume that for Catholics and other Christian denominations, the same applies where the Pope or religious scholars make their religious decisions based on the bible and the 'tradition'.

What I find it hard to accept is that some Christians wish to decide for Muslims what they should think, live and do.

 

[Philothei]

Moslems do interpret the Koran in different ways. You can pretend that there is only one interpretation if you want, but it is simply not true. Some interpret it as giving them the right to kill. Thank God most are more reasonable than that.

And I did not say anything about freethinking anything. I said breaking the ten commandments is haram for all of us, and will be judged by God accordingly.

And yet you say I do not understand your psyche or your faith.

I think one of us is certainly misunderstanding something, but it is not I.

Since when do we have to justify hostility and murder as means of communicating our dislike of others?

It is one thing to get angry at someone minterpreting the Bible or the Koran and another to "act" on it...

Originally Posted by Secundulus

The problem is that you only riot and cut off heads when you think the infidel is insulting the Quran. Since you don't riot and cut off heads when Bin Ladin misuses the Quran, that leads us to believe that many of you don't think he is misusing it. You would be more believable if you were consistent
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Secundulus makes a good point... Why not persecuting those who misrepresent your faith in general but ONLY those who are apostates?

If Bin Laden misinterprete the Quran and I dont cut off people's head, does not mean that I agree with him.

Actually you could have him "cut off" from Islam... You could have send an official communication saying that you do not consider him a muslim... But you cannot since he follows the teachings of the Koran hence you cannot "cut him lose"...

As for the Apostates they are "not following" Islam... that is why they are persecuted.

It makes perfect sense one "DOES" follow Islam thus there is no persecution the other does not thus he is persecuted... Whether you admit it or not does not matter as the truth speaks for itself...

Muslims have respectable scholars who are well versed in the Quran and hadith and their interpretations are the ones that we follow. Hence, the reason why I said earlier "Muslims do not interprete the Quran as they like".

You fall into a fallacy in your thinking here... if mulsims do not interpret the Quran as they like...and Bin Laden is "allowed" to do it.... then what is the point of your statmement as in Praxis... they do and they run away with it and they do misrepresent you... These are double standards...You either condemn them or you do not... and you excommunicate them and you do not count them as muslims... But you cannot... Cause again these teachings are in your hadiths and in the Koran.

would like to assume that for Catholics and other Christian denominations, the same applies where the Pope or religious scholars make their religious decisions based on the bible and the 'tradition'.

What I find it hard to accept is that some Christians wish to decide for Muslims what they should think, live and do.

That is off topic we are not discussing Christians here but Mulsims..

 

[Robinsegg]

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[Tink]

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[Islam_mulia]

Actually you could have him "cut off" from Islam... You could have send an official communication saying that you do not consider him a muslim... But you cannot since he follows the teachings of the Koran hence you cannot "cut him lose"...

We do not have a Pope in Islam. We dont even even have priests that can ex-communicate someone.

As for the Apostates they are "not following" Islam... that is why they are persecuted.

It makes perfect sense one "DOES" follow Islam thus there is no persecution the other does not thus he is persecuted... Whether you admit it or not does not matter as the truth speaks for itself...

There is no rulings in the Quran that Apostates should be killed. However, it certainly is not in the interests of the Ummah that an apostate should be given the same privileges as Muslims in an Islamic country.

You fall into a fallacy in your thinking here... if mulsims do not interpret the Quran as they like...and Bin Laden is "allowed" to do it.... then what is the point of your statmement as in Praxis... they do and they run away with it and they do misrepresent you... These are double standards...You either condemn them or you do not... and you excommunicate them and you do not count them as muslims... But you cannot... Cause again these teachings are in your hadiths and in the Koran.

That is where education comes in. Muslims are being taught again that what was interpreted by some are not the right interpretation. We have our scholars who came and address the issues of jihad. Killing one life is like killing the whole community, saving one soul is like saving the whole mankind.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

That is where education comes in. Muslims are being taught again that what was interpreted by some are not the right interpretation. We have our scholars who came and address the issues of jihad. Killing one life is like killing the whole community, saving one soul is like saving the whole mankind.

Greetings. Yepperz. That is what the Lawmakers of Jerusalem were supposed to do with the Lost Sheep, but as we well know, their intentions were for more selfish reasons.
But in Revelation, they appear to have met with their just reward.

Matthew 23:27 Woe to yee Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; that ye are likened to sepulchres having been whitewashed, who-any outside are appearing beautiful, inside yet they are being replete of bones of dead-ones and of every uncleanness,--

Revelation 18:13 and cinnamon, and odours, and ointment, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and cattle, and sheep, and of horses, and of chariots, and of bodies and souls/yucaV <5590> of men.

 

[ahmid]

Originally posted by Jane the Bane

No, you are not. Your purpose is another, as explained by yourself before. You have no interest in Islam whatsoever - only in proselytizing. Lying for Christ is a sin, too, you know?

Yes, I am still curious about Islam, to know more of Muslim customs and mannerisms, their belief system, their sense of Ummah, Muta, Takiyya, Justice, Peace, etc. At the same time I can share my beliefs with them.

No you don't. All you have are legends that were circulated (and embellished, and turned into a theological narrative with beginning, middle and ending) for decades before being put to paper by anonymous persons who were clearly not there.

There are letters that date from 50 AD on, Saint John was still alive... the letters make mention of the disciples in first person tenses. The fact that thousands of copies of the gospels and Paul's writings exist (within the first 2 centuries) show that they are authentic as to author and content...mind you, thousands of copies of the same writings. Check with the Dallas Theological Institute.

Why do people become Christians? Mormons? Jehova's Witnesses? Wiccans? Buddhists? Even Scientologists? The reasons for conversion to any religion are manifold, yet - to answer your question - the enormous amount of money that's pumped into missionary work in that region surely has an awful lot to do with it.

Did you catch the part where I mention that the Muslims converting to Christianity claim to have "seen and recognized Jesus in their dreams and visions."

He'd be welcome to if he actually existed, for that'd mean that I made some serious errors of judgment somewhere down the road, and I'd love to be corrected. Alas, I consider that more than highly unlikely.

A magical spell! How cute! And in the name of the messiah as well!

You are a pantheist... so you believe in G*d but supposedly you do not believe in any one belief system. When you refered to Jesus as Messiah, did you recognized Jesus for who He is?

By Jesus Christ, come to know YHWH. G*d is One and yes omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent but I could add omni-love... only by Faith can a person come to know His love.

 

[Luzeiro]

Seriously, you and many Christians here have a funny way of thinking.

If Bin Laden misinterprete the Quran and I dont cut off people's head, does not mean that I agree with him.


Muslims have respectable scholars who are well versed in the Quran and hadith and their interpretations are the ones that we follow. Hence, the reason why I said earlier "Muslims do not interprete the Quran as they like".

I would like to assume that for Catholics and other Christian denominations, the same applies where the Pope or religious scholars make their religious decisions based on the bible and the 'tradition'.

What I find it hard to accept is that some Christians wish to decide for Muslims what they should think, live and do.

The bible is explicit as to how the believer is to approach it, which is not through the mind of another or others. Those who say this is what it means and that is what it means, assimilate to themselves power they do not have.

Notice that the bible does NOT say have someone study for you. It is our personal responsibility to study God's word under the guidance of the Holy Spirit and learns its meaning.
2 Timothy 2:15 (King James Version)


15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.



And not just for adults; this is to be done from childhood.

“And that from a child you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus” (II Tim. 3:15).

 

[Philothei]

We do not have a Pope in Islam. We dont even even have priests that can ex-communicate someone.

Ha... You do not need a Pope. You have Imams...Your problem is that you do not have a teaching about excommunication...

There is no rulings in the Quran that Apostates should be killed. However, it certainly is not in the interests of the Ummah that an apostate should be given the same privileges as Muslims in an Islamic country.

what about Futwwas? are they proclamation of killing someone who is an apostate? How come you "skiped" that? Why would the apostaltes not having the same priveledges? That is proof that you discriminate against non-mulsims...and ex-muslims.

That is where education comes in. Muslims are being taught again that what was interpreted by some are not the right interpretation. We have our scholars who came and address the issues of jihad. Killing one life is like killing the whole community, saving one soul is like saving the whole mankind.[

Relying on interpretation would not help any... You have certain tenets in your faith that do not allow you to live in peace among others. period. Your statement is a vague as saying I believe in Green peace. Just because you do that does not mean that you "recicle"...Just the same allow me to disagree as Islamists who came out of western universities did not "suddenly" became beacons of peace....some actually organized and became members of violent groups that were active and responsible for terrorism....Sadly to say but true. Education can be dangerous depending how one uses it...for good or bad purpose....

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

We do not have a Pope in Islam. We dont even even have priests that can ex-communicate someone.

Ha... You do not need a Pope. You have Imams...Your problem is that you do not have a teaching about excommunication...

Nah they don't bother with that. They just take those infidel Muslims and whack their heads off. Probably less painful though than being excommunicated
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