Breaking the Sword of Islam

[Luzeiro]

Greetings. Perhaps some take the Sword literally.
Ezekiel 38:21 is interesting in that JESUS also proclaimed the same thing. But I believe those who are of the Faith of YHWH and His Son Jesus are suppose to fight with the Sword of the Spirit and Word.

Ezekiel 38:21 "And I call on him, to all of Mountains of Me, a Sword, declaration of my Lord YHWH".
"Sword of man in brother of him shall become".

Matthew 10:34 "No thou should be inferring that I came to be casting Peace upon the land. Not I came to be casting Peace, but a Sword

Revelation 6:4 And came out another horse, firery-red, and to the one sitting upon it/him was given to him/it to be taking the Peace out of the land and that one another they shall be slaying and was given to him a Sword/macaira <3162>, Great.

You are right, some do take the sword literally. Unless there are some who believe Christ will not use it to separate the goats from the sheep.

I take the sword literally in a spiritual sense, LLOJ. It cuts going in and coming out. Those who have been cut by it, know this only too well. If you have not felt it, pray that Jesus shows you, my friend.

 

[Luzeiro]

But Christians like to quote Jesus as saying:

"No one comes to the Father but through me" (John 14:6)

That sounds like Jesus is an intermediary, and Jesus was a man.

Didn't you understand what he said?

Here is what he said:

There is No intermediary between G*d and man... there is No angel as an intermediary... it is Jesus (the Son of God; G*d incarnate) Himself who visited man.

It is Jesus, the Son of God, who is the intermediary, or mediator. I'm sure that is what he said, or meant.

 

[Philothei]

Take the Book of Mormon, for example.
Scholars are not sure who actually wrote the gospels but we have three witnesses, Oliver Cowdery, Martin Harris and David Whitmer, plus other eight witnesses, who signed affivadits that they saw an angel gave the golden plates where Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon. Based on your basis of witnesses, do you not think that the Mormons have a stronger case?

No,you fall into the same folly.

 

[ahmid]

Just yesterday I came to the knowledge of a dear man named Zakaria Botros, egyptian born. He is now an orthodox christian reaching a reported 50 million Muslims via satellite every week!! He runs televised sermons in arabic and he is reaching millions.... reportedly hundreds of Muslims a week are abandoning Islam and turning to Christ. Hallelujah... at one time I thought I was alone but G*d does wonderful things. Where I lack, Jesus accomplishes. May G*d continue to bless Mr. Botros. See Him at:

muhammadanism.com
answering-islam.org
debate.org.uk
faithdefenders.com

Oh Muslim, break down your wall of stubborness...

Even as Paul thru Jesus Christ convinced idol worshiping infidels in the first century; likewise do I move about Breaking the Sword of Islam. For the true G*d so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, so that whosoever believes in Him, should not perish but have everlasting life. I will love G*d and my neighbor. --- Ahmid Truth

 

[Luzeiro]

NO.

My stand is quite clear:

Bringing out witnesses whose testimonies have not been careful scrutinised and talking about people who died for their belief do not in any way prove that the religion is true.
.

You do not understand the power of the Christian God and the way He does business. Only HIS HOLY SPIRIT can help you there. If you do not have HIS SPIRIT, you can write dissertations all day long, and you still don't understand. You live in the physical world, the Christian lives in a spiritual world. There is no meeting or joining of these worlds.

 

[Philothei]

I'll let you know. It is to love your neighbor as yourself. This should take precedent over your apparent need to belittle the belifs of others in order to make yourself feel better.

'

Love for your neighbour presupposes to "accept" his sin which is living a lie?

Or love for the neighbour is be untruthful to him about what the Gospel teaches? Offering him a skewed form of the word of God?

Being loving is to speak of the truth in love. Being a Christian unfortunately means too many things to many people, today but that does not justify it...
We love our neighbour and some of us are more outspoken than others and some more pastoral.... that does not mean that we are "meanspirited" or we do not love our neighbour....

 

[Philothei]

lol....I am not talking about stoning my neighbour ....either. But if they ask me if their life style is okay according to Christ then I will tell them the truth.. in love.

Christ did tell the adultress to go and SIN NO MORE he did not say to her to go on and party....Was he not loving for telling her that? According to you he was judging her?

If I would hear someone "judging" my neighbour on account of their "sin" there me too will say to them to not "judge for you will be judged" who says I would be stoning him?
But I would have to tell him as a follower of Christ that such and such is a sin... in private like Christ did ... that is following His example... Not be muted to sin but outspoken about the truth yet pastoral...

When does Jesus say that it is your job to judge others? I thought that was god's job.

Where is judging preaching and telling his words? Telling soneone that they believe a false god is judging? The apostles did talk about not worshiping the idols...Were the Apostles judging the owes who preached at ?

Well, meanspirited is as meanspirited does. Perhaps you should be more tactful rather than disrespecting others? Just a thought.

We do not know the heart of the person to see if they are meanspirited or not.... Because a Christian evangelizes and spreads the word of Christ which sometimes was 100 times more outspoken than our times preachers...that always gets interpreted as "meanspirited" or "fire and brimstone" sermonizing... Sometimes I agree it can be too judgmnental and overbearind and brings about opposite results...


Disrespecting others is one thing...and I would not agree with. But when Christ called other gods false was he disrespectful? When he called himself the WAY and the TRUTH and that there is no other way to the FAhter than ME....was he been disrespectful to other's beliefs? He rather preached who He was and who God is... I am sure some like Jews found that scandalous and disrespectful... They also thought that it was not "tactfull" either... but he did preached what it was truth...regardless of what others believed.....

 

[Luzeiro]

Perhaps you have a skewed understanding of what qualifies something as being true?

No your biased opinion does not count as truth, in case you were wondering.

Since you did not answer my question before, I can only assume that you are not aware of what Jesus says the second greatest commandment of all commandments is.

I'll let you know. It is to love your neighbor as yourself. This should take precedent over your apparent need to belittle the belifs of others in order to make yourself feel better.

Perhaps yes, perhaps no. Either way, I'm not wondering about your opinions of me. They are your property; enjoy.

 

[Luzeiro]

No. Your inference is wrong. My comment was in refrence to what you said. If you notice, I quoted a question you asked CaDan, which shows the context of my question.

To refresh your memory, since you seem confused, you asked him: "Are you here to help?"

This implies you are trying to accomplish something. So I was curious what exactly you were trying to accomplish.

As sharp as you are, why would you ask what you intimate you already know?

 

[Luzeiro]

'

Love for your neighbour presupposes to "accept" his sin which is living a lie?

Or love for the neighbour is be untruthful to him about what the Gospel teaches? Offering him a skewed form of the word of God?

Being loving is to speak of the truth in love. Being a Christian unfortunately means too many things to many people, today but that does not justify it...
We love our neighbour and some of us are more outspoken than others and some more pastoral.... that does not mean that we are "meanspirited" or we do not love our neighbour....

Indeed! Is Jesus not outspoken and to the point? Whose feelings did He hurt?

Thank you.

 

[Luzeiro]

Well, what did Jesus say to the crowd of frenzied people ready to stone a prostitute to death according to Jewish law?

He said "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." So what can we learn from this example?

Is it your understanding that Jesus wants us to respond to sin with anger or judgment?

I don't think so. Jesus responds with love and compassion.

"Judge not least you be judged."

What does that mean to you?



When does Jesus say that it is your job to judge others? I thought that was god's job.



Well, meanspirited is as meanspirited does. Perhaps you should be more tactful rather than disrespecting others? Just a thought.

Jesus was outspoken and to the point and chastizing.

If it is not judging me you are doing, what is it? Mind your business and don't hamper the Christian while he is doing his job.

 

[Luzeiro]

"Judge not least you be judged."
quote]
Have a look-see and learn the meaning of judging:

The Bible says &#8220;Matthew 7:1Judge not, that ye be not judged&#8221;,
but the Bible also says &#8220;1Corinthians 2:15But he that is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is judged of no man,
then it also says &#8220;Luke 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned:
but then again it also says &#8220;Philippians 1:9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; 10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ;
but it also says&#8220; Romans14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth.&#8221;
but then again it also goes on to say &#8220;1 Corinthians 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.&#8221;
then Jesus also said &#8220; John 8:15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
but then again it also says we are given a gift to judge &#8220; 1Corinthians 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:&#8221;
http://www.christianarsenal.com/Apologetics/Discernment.htm

 

[Islam_mulia]

People form a relationship with Christ in their own way... I see Futuwwa is leaning towards Jesus and abandoning Islam.

Let the man speaks for himself. Is this another of your misleading strategy to speak untruth about someone?

Just yesterday I came to the knowledge of a dear man named Zakaria Botros, egyptian born. He is now an orthodox christian reaching a reported 50 million Muslims via satellite every week!! He runs televised sermons in arabic and he is reaching millions.... reportedly hundreds of Muslims a week are abandoning Islam and turning to Christ. Hallelujah... at one time I thought I was alone but G*d does wonderful things. Where I lack, Jesus accomplishes. May G*d continue to bless Mr. Botros. See Him at:

muhammadanism.com
answering-islam.org
debate.org.uk
faithdefenders.com

Oh Muslim, break down your wall of stubborness...

From what I heard, this Father Zakaria has his own differences, theological differences, with the Coptic Church.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zakaria_Botros

Other than the exaggerated 'reaching 50 million Muslims' or that 'hundreds of Muslims a week are abandoning Islam and turning to Christ', I wonder what kind of Christianity Zakaria was teaching that did not meet the approval of his Pope?

But then, what do Zakaria actually preach to Muslims? Why dont you represent him and try to save my soul from hell by preaching the same thing to me, a Muslim?

 

[Secundulus]

But then, what do Zakaria actually preach to Muslims? Why dont you represent him and try to save my soul from hell by preaching the same thing to me, a Muslim?

He must be doing something right. Al Qaeda had declared him the most wanted infidel in the world and put a $60 million reward on his head. They hate him worse than they hate George Bush.
http://unlimited.blogster.com/exclu...ating-in-the-us-for-preaching-the-gospel-to-m

Here is his website if you want to see why he is hated. If his message was not logical and powerful he would instead be ignored.
http://www.fatherzakaria.net/

Why don't you read the material he has on the Trinity and see what one well versed in Islam has to say.

 

[Islam_mulia]

He must be doing something right. Al Qaeda had declared him the most wanted infidel in the world and put a $60 million reward on his head. They hate him worse than they hate George Bush.
http://unlimited.blogster.com/exclu...ating-in-the-us-for-preaching-the-gospel-to-m

Al Qaeda targets almost everyone that does not agree with its ideas.

Targetting Botros does not mean what Botros preached was right or Christianity was true. Similarly, Al Qaeda targetting Bush does not imply that the Bush Administration is right.

Here is his website if you want to see why he is hated. If his message was not logical and powerful he would instead be ignored.
http://www.fatherzakaria.net/

Why don't you read the material he has on the Trinity and see what one well versed in Islam has to say.

This is a forum. If you feel that you need to repeat what Botros said, then start a thread. You know that I will participate.

 

[Secundulus]

Al Qaeda targets almost everyone that does not agree with its ideas.

Targetting Botros does not mean what Botros preached was right or Christianity was true. Similarly, Al Qaeda targetting Bush does not imply that the Bush Administration is right.

It doesn't prove he is right. But it does prove he is effective.

This is a forum. If you feel that you need to repeat what Botros said, then start a thread. You know that I will participate.

I have scanned some of his stuff and it looks pretty good, so I might just do that. Since he has probably over 100 of his documents/essays posted on his site, that ought to keep us busy for the next year or two. LOL

 

[Philothei]

Al Qaeda targets almost everyone that does not agree with its ideas.

Targetting Botros does not mean what Botros preached was right or Christianity was true. Similarly, Al Qaeda targetting Bush does not imply that the Bush Administration is right.

It targets but does not put fwtwa to everyone... Only those who apostate and fight it openly..

How come those who are apostates are to be blamed? For what? they just did not want to be muslims any more...

Targeting Boutros or Bush makes it right? How? You mean you justify a killing? Nothing justifies a killing...

And yes they are effective that is why they percecuted...I do not think it has anything to do that they are right or not...

 

[Islam_mulia]

It targets but does not put fwtwa to everyone... Only those who apostate and fight it openly..

You seems to know Al Qaeda better than me.

How come those who are apostates are to be blamed? For what? they just did not want to be muslims any more...

If I understand it correctly, Al Qaeda targets non-Muslims, apostates and Muslims as well... anyone that they think disagree with them.

Interestingly, Secundulus open a thread about Al Qaeda accusing a Muslim state, Iran, of supporting 'crusaders' objectives.

Targeting Boutros or Bush makes it right? How? You mean you justify a killing? Nothing justifies a killing...

No. I think you read me wrongly. I told Secundulus that Al Qaeda's targetting Boutros does not prove Christianity right, just like targetting Bush makes the Bush Administration right.

And yes they are effective that is why they percecuted...I do not think it has anything to do that they are right or not...

I do not think Boutros was persecuted. It is possible that this priest ridicules Muslims by misquoting or misusing Islamic text. As such, he was hated by Muslims, especially as Ahmid mentioned, he has his own TV programme to spread lies.

What is a lie and what is the truth can be discussed in a forum like this.

 

[Secundulus]

Interestingly, Secundulus open a thread about Al Qaeda accusing a Muslim state, Iran, of supporting 'crusaders' objectives.

Yes, the news is full of surprises today. I read another story where the Muslim Kurdish Peshmerga is now protecting a Christian town outside Mosul and arming and paying the Christian Militia.

Another of my stereotypes broken.

From the Arab news source: http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2008/09/08/56187.html

Now, if certain countries would stop their pogroms of dhimmitude we would make some progress.

 

[Philothei]

You seems to know Al Qaeda better than me.


If I understand it correctly, Al Qaeda targets non-Muslims, apostates and Muslims as well... anyone that they think disagree with them.

Interestingly, Secundulus open a thread about Al Qaeda accusing a Muslim state, Iran, of supporting 'crusaders' objectives.


No. I think you read me wrongly. I told Secundulus that Al Qaeda's targetting Boutros does not prove Christianity right, just like targetting Bush makes the Bush Administration right.



I do not think Boutros was persecuted. It is possible that this priest ridicules Muslims by misquoting or misusing Islamic text. As such, he was hated by Muslims, especially as Ahmid mentioned, he has his own TV programme to spread lies.

What is a lie and what is the truth can be discussed in a forum like this.

The actions are products of the teachings of Islam. So, if I misquote the Koran then muslims are "justified" to hate me? How sure are you they will not persecute me? What proof do you have that Boutros is not?

You do not know ... and that is because the extremism starts with the teachigs that allow for fanatics to pracitce them.... so like I said before any mulsim can be a future fanatic thus dangerous to society...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWVA_dcvD_8

here is an mulsim (Imam too) converting to Orthodox Christianity...He was almost killed by his father.. and he had to flee.... and still were after him....

And I am afraid this is a typical story....