Breaking Engagements

[Angel4Truth]

After reading both this and the Divorce Thread (now closed for review) i find the need to make a statement:

Matthew 7:3-5

"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam [is] in thine own eye?
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

Wash, rinse, repeat as needed.

Ahem... Ms. Unwed-Mother-of-Two, may want to reconsider her stance on other's sins, lest she call down judgement of her own....

Please tell me that you did not just quote a verse about judging others and then immediately afterward call someone an unwed mother of two in judgment of her sins?

Tell me , do you know if she was born again before or after having those children? If you dont know , then you are possibly judging what Christ already forgave and then she wouldnt be what you are accusing her of being if it was past .

 

[Angel4Truth]

My sensiblities are most offended when people use Biblical text to eagerly rend into the sins of another, while blissfully excusing their own. Of course, they usually claim that you fail to interpret the Bible correctly (ie: so that it benefits them) when you point out the contradiction.

And then you did it yourself ........

 

[Carri20]

Lol you know, Angel4Truth makes some very good points! Tell me, when did you last remove the plank from your eye Jetgirl? Or do the rules not apply to you?

 

[Chrono Traveler]

Marriage is not about making your partner the top priority in your life. It's about committing to remain with your partner as a helpmate until death do you part, and living together to please God and put God first.

heh, like I said...I feel close to gods when I express my love and commitment to the people around me, especially my partner.

I feel the gods have made us for eachother, and and the only to to show to show respect for the gods is to cherish her and take care of her above all else.

All I feel I can really give to the gods is respect what I have down here.

 

[Jetgirl]

Please tell me that you did not just quote a verse about judging others and then immediately afterward call someone an unwed mother of two in judgment of her sins?

Tell me , do you know if she was born again before or after having those children? If you dont know , then you are possibly judging what Christ already forgave and then she wouldnt be what you are accusing her of being if it was past .

What I'm saying is that people who live in glass houses should be cautious with lobbing projectiles.

I have absolutely no problem with unwed mothers and have mucho grande respect for what must be an incredibly tough job. And I'm SURE there are circumstances surrounding her situation that we will all never (and never need to) know.

Weilding the Bible at another's problem however, is a double-edged sword. I've seen her criticize and condemm with the same fervor as other Christians do toward unwed mothers. *gasp* premarital sex, terrible! *faints*.

I am attempting to illustrate that she is doing to others what I'm sure is hurtful and unjust when done to her.

She seems to have righteousness on her side though, so what does this ignorant heathen really have to say.... *shrug*

 

[Jetgirl]

Lol you know, Angel4Truth makes some very good points! Tell me, when did you last remove the plank from your eye Jetgirl? Or do the rules not apply to you?

Course they don't, I'm an ignorant heathen, remember?

I'm at peace with my shortcomings, and if I were to come to believe in God I'd be comfortable with him as well.

 

[Seeking...]

Please tell me that you did not just quote a verse about judging others and then immediately afterward call someone an unwed mother of two in judgment of her sins?

Tell me , do you know if she was born again before or after having those children? If you dont know , then you are possibly judging what Christ already forgave and then she wouldnt be what you are accusing her of being if it was past .

Calling someone an unwed mother of two is either true or false - it is not a condition of repentence and isn't a judgement.

The only thing that people in this thread are judging Carri about is her treatment of other posters.

 

[Jetgirl]

[/font]

And then you did it yourself ........

Hmm, that interesting.

The Bible contains a quote that one can never actually use. Of course it applies to the author as well.

Besides, you failed to read that I don't actually care about unwed mothers (or homosexuals, divorcees, transvesties, or people with midget fetishes), but other Christians will deliver holy wrath on that particular subject.

 

[Seeking...]

Personally I think that personally attacking people on a message board without knowing thing one about them is what is immature but thats my opinion ....I also think the same about getting personal with someone else because you dont like their world veiw .

I agree wholeheartedly - that is why I gave back to the poster just what she dished out.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Jetgirl , no offense , but it makes you look bad not her when you are doing exactly what you are saying isnt right .

Are you any different doing the wrong thing just because you think you have a good reason to do the wrong thing?

She isnt being hypocritical about what sin is , unless she had those children AFTER she was saved and then said her sin wasnt sin while saying another persons is .

It just looks really funny , seeing you welding the double edged sword in the same way you are saying someone else was wrong for doing .

As to your last comment , no one called you ignorant or a heathen , and as far as righteousness no one is righteous when they are getting personal with someone and judging their sins as if they are God to judge them .

There is righteous and unrighteous judgment . Righteous judgement deals with sticking to what God says is sin in a doctrinal manner - that is saying something is a sin - unrighteous judgment is getting personal with it and making the condemnation to the person themselves and creating why or what or how it occured as if we are God and then passing the sentence ourselves .

 

[Angel4Truth]

I agree wholeheartedly - that is why I gave back to the poster just what she dished out.

I see , so because of something she possibly said on another thread , we should hold a grudge and later get personal with them to get even and teach them a lesson , that is what would be the right thing , right?

Pleeeeeeeeeeze

 

[Ledifni]

Why do you keep throwing the word "hate" around? Even if you're not a Christian, don't you think it's wrong to falsely accuse someone? If I accused all gay people of being rapists just because some of them are, does that make it true? No. And I wouldn't do a thing like that anyway.

Carri, how can you even say that? How have you so quickly forgotten falsely accusing me and all other non-Christians of being "haters of God and Christianity?" Do you not subject yourself to the same scrutiny you subject others?

But Jetgirl makes a good point, and I'm not going to continue this line of discussion. You might, however, consider taking her advice yourself.

(Or am I somehow less than human because I disagree with your opinion?)

Could you all do me a favor and at least read the book before you go spitting out advice that you think it gives (but actually doesn't)?

In return, I'd like to ask that you do me the favor of not assuming things about me -- like, for example, that I hate God and Christianity, or that I haven't read the Bible, or of considering you "less than human" because you and I don't agree.

It galls me to excuse myself from baseless accusations, as it feels like admitting that the accusations were at least partly deserved, but for this once, I will.

I don't hate God or Christianity. I hate it when those things are used to harm others; but there are many Christians for whose person and worldview I have inestimable respect. Those are usually the Christians who use their worldview to do good, rather than to spread hatred and strife and to cause harm and division.

I have read the Bible, more times than I can count, and thought it through very carefully. I was a strict fundamentalist Christian for most of my life -- until a little over four years ago, I hadn't even considered the possibility that any of my beliefs could be wrong.

I don't dislike you for disagreeing with me. In fact, I rather like it when people disagree with me, as it makes for a good discussion. No, any behavior of mine that you took as meaning you're "less than human" was prompted by your utterly nasty and unforgivable statements about me and other nonbelievers -- things like "you only disbelieve because you don't want to believe," or calling us "haters of God and Christianity." Stop with the accusations and the reviling and the spreading of hate, and I won't have any problem with you.

I don't expect you to feel shame for what you've done -- that's up to you and I can't make you feel one way or the other -- but I do expect you to take more care about what accusations you express out loud.

 

[Seeking...]

I see , so because of something she possibly said on another thread , we should hold a grudge and later get personal with them to get even and teach them a lesson , that is what would be the right thing , right?

Pleeeeeeeeeeze

Actually, I know exactly what she said. It also wasn't just that one thread - I see a pattern, even if you don't. All I did was tell her exactly what I saw was wrong, why and where it would lead if others took the same tack with her. She gave her opinion and I gave mine - which is what this board is for.

It wasn't an attack. I can take it there - but didn't feel the need to...

 

[Angel4Truth]

You know the best way to teach someone how to treat people is to be a good example of it in light of how others treat us . Sometimes i wonder if there are so many people who reject Christs forgiveness just because they cant get their head around how He can forgive everything and really wipe it away as if it never happened . Takes some real hard forgiveness for that and not many can do it much less understand it .

I guess how we understand it depends on just how forgiving we can be ourselves

 

[Jetgirl]

Why do you keep throwing the word "hate" around?

Dunno, never used the word. Except in the homosexuality thread, where you used it a whole bunch, and I quoted you.

Even if you're not a Christian, don't you think it's wrong to falsely accuse someone?

I'm suggesting that you may be in for some of your own medicine on a few points, I could come up with something concrete to accuse you of if you want.

cused all gay people of being rapists just because some of them are, does that make it true? No. And I wouldn't do a thing like that anyway. So I'll ask again that you please show the same consideration to me. (Or am I somehow less than human because I disagree with your opinion?)

Well, you accused all gay people of some other stuff that was unwarrented, but we'll let that go...

Actually I do somewhat agree with your opinion.

Plank in your eye" passage means that you must confess your sins before God and repent of them before you confront someone else about their sin. It doesn't say you should NEVER confront someone else about their sin. Such a statement would be contrary to the entire message of the Bible, and fyi, I do bring my sins before God for repentence regularly.

So if you go to God, and say you're sorry, then it's ok if you call other people on their sins?

Of course, I'm free to do what I see reasonable, going to God not being an option and all. But I tend to not be judgemental on personal choices made in other people's lives... since, you know, I have no control of them and whatnot.

Marriage is not about making your partner the top priority in your life. It's about committing to remain with your partner as a helpmate until death do you part, and living together to please God and put God first.{/QUOTE]

Sorry, "putting God first" stuff not applicable.

king up with someone because of religious differences before marriage is parallel with the commands of the Bible.

Sure, and rational and responsable to boot. I agree with you on this.

Beaking up with someone because of religious differences after marriage is NOT parallel with the commands of the Bible.

That's a problem that Bible-believers have to worry about, yes.

The Bible says that if your mate is not a believer, you should stay with them if they wish to stay with you. If they leave because you're a Christian, then it's not your fault. (But that still doesn't mean you can remarry.)

That's according to your personal interpretation.

Could you all do me a favor and at least read the book before you go spitting out advice that you think it gives (but actually doesn't)?

Which version do you prefer, I own five. One's in Latin though, so I can't use it very effectively.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Actually, I know exactly what she said. It also wasn't just that one thread - I see a pattern, even if you don't. All I did was tell her exactly what I saw was wrong, why and where it would lead if others took the same tack with her. She gave her opinion and I gave mine - which is what this board is for.

It wasn't an attack. I can take it there - but didn't feel the need to...

Well no , you didnt just talk to her , if that was the intend , i think maybe you would have pmed her and said listen , i dont think you should be coming off this way , or whatever you would have said . Instead you did what you called her down for and 2 wrongs dont make a right .

I dont know what she said on whatever thread many here are attacking her about , but to be honest , this thread shouldnt have anything to do with it , that was there , this is here .

If we all carried what bothered us from other threads , no one would ever be able to talk about anything and we leave no one any room for growth in any area .

 

[Jetgirl]

Alright folks, my lunchbreak has gone the way of the dinosaurs... so if I don't reply til tomorrow, please don't think I'm ignoring you.

(Yeah I've got the internet at home, but it's all about Warcraft after work. )

 

[Angel4Truth]

If God comes before your relationships, then what right have you to take marriage vows? How can you swear to something when you know beforehand that your religious beliefs will take precedence?

If God doesnt come first , one cannot have a right relationship - neither my husband or myself would have had each other if God wasnt first -you answered the real issue itself with your last line and why believers arent to be yoked to non believers - for the very reason that God will not come first in that relationship , He cant if one doesnt believe and isnt submitted to God . You would always have one left out .

You seem to feel that one should never be unequally yoked, but that if a marriage exists, one is not free to pursue an equal yoking. So tell me -- are you going to swear to "love him, comfort him, honor and keep him, in sickness and in health, for richer, for poorer, for better, for worse, in sadness and in joy, to cherish and continually bestow upon him your heart’s deepest devotion, forsaking all others, keep yourself only unto him as long as you both shall live?" But if he becomes non-Christian, then you will have to break those solemn and loving and serious vows.

Again you are answering the real issue and why people who are not equally yoked should get married , however if there was a marriage , we are not to leave the non believer , because the believer sanctifies them and could cause by example the leading of the non believer to God . But , if a non believer wants to leave , we are to let them , and are not bound .

I would say that if God is more important than your spouse, you have no right to promise your spouse that he will be the most important person in your life.

I disagree , I know my husband is more of a husband to me because God comes first which causes Him to be the right kind of husband to me and for me to be the right kind of wife for him and ensures we stay committed to each other because we are committed to God first.

Not only so, you have a duty to tell everyone you're involved with that you will willingly betray their love if it seems to you that God wants you to -- else you are betraying not only their love, but their trust as well.

Its for this very reason too that ideally we have God choose our spouse and not become yoked with what isnt under submission to God .

She has a different issue though , shes already been intimate with him and that in the eyes of God is marriage - they also have children too so they really need a pastor involved if the non believer is willing .

 

[flicka]

Please tell me that you did not just quote a verse about judging others and then immediately afterward call someone an unwed mother of two in judgment of her sins?

Tell me , do you know if she was born again before or after having those children? If you dont know , then you are possibly judging what Christ already forgave and then she wouldnt be what you are accusing her of being if it was past .

Hehehe, calling and unwed mother of 2 an unwed mother of 2 isn't exactly an insult. What is wrong with stating fact? I'm a wed mother of 2. Big deal.

And what difference does being born again make? I laugh at christians who throw that out as if its an excuse to have participated in whatever form of debauchery they could think of. I don't believe in born again people but I do believe people can change their lives for the better. And most people who are not born again do not compromise themselves or commit various 'sins' any more than someone claiming to be does. It's a shameless abuse of a christian buzz word if you ask me.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Hehehe, calling and unwed mother of 2 an unwed mother of 2 isn't exactly an insult. What is wrong with stating fact? I'm a wed mother of 2. Big deal.

And what difference does being born again make? I laugh at christians who throw that out as if its an excuse to have participated in whatever form of debauchery they could think of. I don't believe in born again people but I do believe people can change their lives for the better. And most people who are not born again do not compromise themselves or commit various 'sins' any more than someone claiming to be does. It's a shameless abuse of a christian buzz word if you ask me.

You have a bad habit of putting words into peoples mouths then acting outraged because of the words that you put there . No one "threw out" anything to "excuse " anything , could you be any more off base with your comments?

Most people who are not born again do not compromise themselves according to you . Can you tell me why the porn industry compromises more than 85 percent of internet space? I mean you seem to have all the answers about us christians even though what the bible says about christianity contradicts you .

Tell me since you made an unsubstantiated charge if you can back it up(which i doubt) since you are attempting to say you are laughing about what i said , yet havent told us what form of debauchery i have participated in , or what the OP has participated in since you dont know either of us and how its ok for you to sit in judgment ?

Ill wait while you give us the goods on me since you are so smart that you can laugh at me............then you can explain what shameless abuse means