Brains and Beauty: Oil and Water?

[Rory]

I don't think he meant to offend the ones I mentioned or anyone for that matter, I think he's just frustrated and trying to get to some kind of point that maybe eludes him.

I didn't post about CF or specific women to flatter them or to paint Sean into a corner, I was just giving my perspective on the topic and the best way it seemed to me was to give examples that are available to the board instead of talking all about women I've known that nobody here knows. Which is why they were a one sentence thing.

Sorry bro if you felt it was putting you in a corner or making you go defensive, as I said that was not my intention, my previous post more explains what I was getting at. I just sometimes forget to finish a thought in initial posts so they look different than intended.

As said, it's subjective, personal likes, either we can discuss our own views as I did or just yours which won't really lead to much conversation since we aren't you and we wouldn't have much productive to bring to the table.

 

[Obzocky]

I trust Sean knows that I really don't care if he finds me attractive or not, and I trust he knows well enough that I agree with a small number of his opinions in terms of the whole pretty thing (I think, and if he doesn't, i've just admitted it, so ... moving on).

For what it's worth I think it's good for these threads to keep coming, for thoughts to keep bouncing, for people to keep debating (nicely). People addressed the bold: Do brains and beauty mix? Why or why not? Is it because pretty girls do not need to be smart to get ahead? Or maybe pretty girls are forced to play dumb to get guys?

Sean replied with his opinion. I do think some attractive women, the type of attractive women Sean is attracted to, do play dumb. I do believe some of them do not strive to be more than a pretty face because that's what works. I do think that it is difficult, given the environment, for those who fit the initial rush, that drive that makes you want to know them more, to be more than a pretty face. It's the role some people play in life, some of them could probably bloom into very interesting minds given the right circumstances, but that's the thing. It requires the right circumstances, and those circumstances are not always forthcoming.

It is not that I believe beauty and brains do not mix, it's that I believe the environment does not lend itself to either revealing the brains that do exist. That and other reasons I shan't go into, because honestly it's just a whole lot of babble.

 

[broken_one]

As one of those mentioned women- I wasn't at all offended by what Sean said.


But I do have to wonder why he even started this thread if his end goal was to talk only about women HE found both beautiful and intelligent? Because they don't exist. So there is no actual topic I guess.

Thank you.

What this thread was intended to be lasted for about 6 posts. Though the OP started with a personal rumination of mine (only to preface the question), the discussion itself was of the relationship between one component of a whole personality and another, popularly seen to be at odds. We had a decent discussion going on with people chiming in about it just being a stereotype, and others talking about some girls having to hide/suppress things because men want their partners to be a certain way. It was actually getting somewhat interesting.

And then came the "all or nothing" statements. That because of this and this, this thread does not deserve to exist. I suppose these were better than the next questions toward myself. How x and y are true for them, that means that it's true, period. For whatever reason, they seemed to forget that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, or simply that other people (especially of the other gender) don't think the same way they do.

The naming of people to me was not a big deal for me because it was what their opinion was. They're entitled to it. I just felt though that in combination with previous posts, it created a sense of pressure for me to say something that I did not agree with (and to speak against it would make me seem disagreeable). Sometimes though, you just have to do what is unpopular but is the right thing to do.

On a final note, I did not appreciate the tone taken after I had to make my statement. I'm an extreme "let it all play out" person, so I will never take a moderation action against someone. But let me say here, that I have had some excellent, excellent threads made recently regarding women that the ladies themselves enjoyed more than I did. Opinion of me really has ("did" is the better word now, seeing what has been posted here) undergone a lot of positive change, but now I am unsure again whether this was a ploy by myself to be liked, or people just naturally liking myself. But now I am digressing.

In the end, I am not the martyr as much as I am Edison.

 

[Tamara224]

Oh good grief, Sean.

You asked a generalized question that is, by nature, highly subjective. People gave subjective answers.

Then you got all bent out of shape because people weren't agreeing with you and felt the absurd need to state, rather callously, that you don't think any women here are attractive. What the hell does that have to do with the topic?

So, what, if you don't think a woman is beautiful then suddenly it's an objective and incontrovertible fact that she's not beautiful? Think much of your own opinion, do you?

Now you're blaming others for going off topic, when you're the one who turned this thread into being about your own personal preferences.

I'm with mehguy. I think you're just stirring the pot. Again.

 

[white dove]

What I've learned in my short, short life P) is that what annoys us about others is what we hate about ourselves. Sean, you focus intently on this kind of topic and I do now understand why someone like Vicky just gives up at this point. It really isn't a matter of why so-and-so is or isn't attractive to you. It's about you being content and happy with yourself. If you've got that genuine love for yourself, you don't have this ugly, judgmental attitude. And I'm not saying ugly because of what attracts you as a person - we've all got our attractions and characteristics that interest us in others. Those of us who have vision find people and things that are attractive to us in a physical or aesthetic way. It's the ugliness that insists that you are the epitome of which to judge the attractiveness of women as a whole. You're young and I get that and who knows, maybe a lot of young guys think like you at that age. But, I guess other than strongly advising that you start loving yourself and delving deeper into what really makes you who you are is.. go out and get to know a ton of women. A ton. I wouldn't say date them all, but man... I don't know where you live where you think that something like smart, hot women don't exist. Or maybe, Nano had a point and it's something that really scares some men off; thinking they probably don't deserve such women anyway. You said before that you have a self-esteem issue and if so, that probably (more than likely) has to go with the kinds of women you're meeting. Maybe you don't think you deserve them so you find yourself in places where it's impossible or improbable to meet such women. In the past, quality men have scared me off too. It's not only a guy thing. It's almost like seeing a unicorn - so rare, but existent and once you see some, meet some and maybe even date some it's kind of shocking or scary. But, I've gotten over it because men are people too. Everybody's got their flaws.

 

[acropolis]

Thank you.

The fact that you think this idea of smart women being unattractive and vice versa is even in question worth serious consideration shows you're either way immature or have some harmful, ignorant opinions of women. That you would propose as a reasonable answer that pretty women just don't need to be smart, and therefore aren't, is kind of shocking. How have you gone your entire life up to this point without coming across women who are both pretty and smart?

***

One thing everyone should keep in mind when making lists of people with positive attributes is that you are implying that anyone who doesn't make the list doesn't have that positive attribute, so be careful. Or better yet, don't list out people by name unless you sincerely want to hurt the feelings of those unnamed.

 

[Rory]

One thing everyone should keep in mind when making lists of people with positive attributes is that you are implying that anyone who doesn't make the list doesn't have that positive attribute, so be careful. Or better yet, don't list out people by name unless you sincerely want to hurt the feelings of those unnamed.

Uh nope. Being the one that made the list I feel I should point out what I actually said.

"I can name 5 off the top of my head that you know on here."

Then the list of 5 which I clearly mentioned as being just off the top of my head, and I followed the list with this.

"Not to mention about 50+ more on the forums. These are just a small sample of the ones that make me feel I need a helmet with a spinner on top at times"

Pretty obvious it's not a full list. Nowhere in there does it give the impression that anyone not mentioned doesn't fit. I even pointed out how it was a small sample.

So yeah not sure where you are pulling that line of thought from but it in no way applies to the "oh noes a list" posted in this thread.

 

[leothelioness]

Alright lets not forget that physical attractiveness is mostly subjective. It depends on the individual person.

No need to get all butthurt because Sean doesn't find you physically attractive. It doesn't mean you are ugly or an eyesore to the whole world; he can probably even find a Victoria's Secret model unattractive.

Sean has his "type" and its unfortunate that he has not met many women he finds attractive to also be intelligent. The thread actually has a topic to discuss to share opinions, as indicated by the general questions he bolded at the end of his topic. It was probably bolded for a reason. I'm not sure how it turned into a "lets drill Sean!" thread. Not once did he say he doesn't think a woman can be both attractive and intelligent. He simply said that he's had difficulty finding one, and I know for a fact that he's not the only one who's found themselves in that predicament.

Eh, I'm not offended. I would have to agree with Sean that I'm not super attractive, actually. And now I know why I'm still single. lol

 

[Apollo Celestio]

So to better answer the thread, what's "Attractive", I know Sean is picky but I don't think it's "inappropriate contentstars only plz"

 

[broken_one]

The fact that you think this idea of smart women being unattractive and vice versa is even in question worth serious consideration shows you're either way immature or have some harmful, ignorant opinions of women. That you would propose as a reasonable answer that pretty women just don't need to be smart, and therefore aren't, is kind of shocking. How have you gone your entire life up to this point without coming across women who are both pretty and smart?

I love how you've drawn your conclusion before you even looked at the evidence.

For pages now, I've shown that this type of person does exist, in multiple forms (and even in suppressed ones). All I said, in the preamble of the introduction of the OP, was that I've had troubles finding one myself (that naturally is single and around my age). That's it.

We're now on the same page, so let's move on.

 

[leothelioness]

I can see where Sean is coming from. I've had trouble finding single people around my age that I thought were attractive. And the ones that I do find attractive are sadly already taken.

I think maybe some folks are being a bit too harsh.

 

[Ukrainia]

I've decided that I'm getting really tired of girls who aren't interesting to me and who don't hold my attention. I've now trended toward being more deeply attracted to girls who are smarter, or at least appear to be so.

I think you're been using personality and intelligence kind of interchangably. Their are many girls that are quite good looking that are just as intelligent as I am, and many that are more so. That, I'm sure, goes for Broken One as well. Unless you're on the the extreme ends of the bell curve, this goes for pretty much anyone. Finding someone that has a personality that fits with yours is much more challenging. I remember a girl who in high school got a 32 on her ACT (a great score - way into the top 1%), and was quite good looking but had the persona of a ditzy cheerleader. If you didn't know her, you would have thought she was as dumb as a box of rocks. I can think of a hundred personality types that might be paried with both great looks and biting intelligence that just wouldn't jive with my own personality. In my opinion finding someone who just gets you, is always going to be a much greater struggle than finding someone who is merely intelligent and good looking.