Book - Sealed with 7 Seals

[miknik5]

Oh and I can prove it since it is clearly told us that the only ones allowed to come to the wedding are those with the right covering.

 

[miknik5]

Oh and I’m not going to add to the word of God. What God told Adam is clearly written for all to read.

It’s just that you overlooked two things

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Oh and I can prove it since it is clearly told us that the only ones allowed to come to the wedding are those with the right covering.

I have a thread on that, but it is about 8 yrs old and the formatting got messed up in the CF change over.

Matthew 22 and the "Man" not clothed for wedding feast

I agree with you student.
I feel that the man was not clothed with Christ.

Anywho, look at what Jesus calls the Man not dressed for the wedding feast?
"COMRADE/FRIEND"

2083. hetairos from etes
(a clansman); a comrade:--fellow, friend.
Strong's Number G2083 occurs 4 times in 4 verses

Matthew 22:
11 And entering yet the King to gaze of the ones the reclining, he saw there a Man not clothed/endedumenon <1746> clothing/enduma <1742> of wedding-feast [Zeph 1:8/Luke 16:24]
12 And He is saying to him: "Comrade/friend!<2083>
how thou entered here no having garment of marriage"? And he was speechless.

Same thing He says to Judas:

Matthew 26:49
"Then Judas quickly stepped up to Jesus and said, "Hello, Rabbi!" and kissed him."50 "The yet Jesus said to him, "comrade/friend!<2083>, why are thou here?"
Then toward-coming , they cast the hands upon Jesus, and they hold/seize Him."

Same exact form of #1746 is used in only one other verse, Reve 11:3

Matthew 22:
11 And entering yet the King to gaze of the ones the reclining, he saw there a Man not clothed/endedumenon <1746> cothing/enduma <1742> of wedding-feast [Zeph 1:8/Luke 16:24]

Revelation 1:13
and in the midst of the seven lamp-stands, one like to a Son of Man, clothed/endedumenon <1746> to the foot, and girt round at the breast with a golden girdle,

Zephaniah 1:8
And becomes in Day of sacrifice of Yahweh and I visit on the chiefs and on sons of the King and on all of ones being clothed/03847 clothing/4403 foreign. [Matt 22:11/Revelation 19]


.

 

[miknik5]

I have a thread on that, but it is about 8 yrs old and the formatting got messed up in the CF change over.

Matthew 22 and the "Man" not clothed for wedding feast

Anywho, look at what Jesus calls the Man not dressed for the wedding feast?
"COMRADE/FRIEND"

2083. hetairos from etes
(a clansman); a comrade:--fellow, friend.
Strong's Number G2083 occurs 4 times in 4 verses

Matthew 22:
11 And entering yet the King to gaze of the ones the reclining, he saw there a Man not clothed/endedumenon <1746> clothing/enduma <1742> of wedding-feast [Zeph 1:8/Luke 16:24]
Matthew 22:
12 And He is saying to him: "Comrade/friend!<2083>
how thou entered here no having garment of marriage"? And he was speechless.

Same thing He says to Judas:

Matthew 26:49
"Then Judas quickly stepped up to Jesus and said, "Hello, Rabbi!" and kissed him."50 "The yet Jesus said to him, "comrade/friend!<2083>, why are thou here?"
Then toward-coming , they cast the hands upon Jesus, and they hold/seize Him."

Same exact form of #1746 is used in only one other verse, Reve 11:3

Matthew 22:
11 And entering yet the King to gaze of the ones the reclining, he saw there a Man not clothed/endedumenon <1746> cothing/enduma <1742> of wedding-feast [Zeph 1:8/Luke 16:24]

Revelation 1:13
and in the midst of the seven lamp-stands, one like to a Son of Man, clothed/endedumenon <1746> to the foot, and girt round at the breast with a golden girdle,

Zephaniah 1:8
And becomes in Day of sacrifice of Yahweh and I visit on the chiefs and on sons of the King and on all of ones being clothed/03847 clothing/4403 foreign. [Matt 22:11/Revelation 19]

Okay

 

[Erik Nelson]

I consider Postvieww a friend, although we may not agree on all things.

I can only answer the question, based on the text.

Based on Revelation 16:15-21, and 2 Peter 3:10-13, this rotten, sin-cursed world is going to be destroyed at the Second Coming of Christ.

.

"Armageddon" destroyed "Babylon" in 70ad = 1 city

the beast was defeated by Constantine and Nicaea in the 4th century ad = 1 continent sized empire

that escalation from city to empire is why we trust that God could wipe out earth at revelation 20:9

 

[Choose Wisely]

"Armageddon" destroyed "Babylon" in 70ad = 1 city

the beast was defeated by Constantine and Nicaea in the 4th century ad = 1 continent sized empire

that escalation from city to empire is why we trust that God could wipe out earth at revelation 20:9

LOL, I needed a good laugh this morning. What else you got?

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[BABerean2]

"Armageddon" destroyed "Babylon" in 70ad = 1 city

the beast was defeated by Constantine and Nicaea in the 4th century ad = 1 continent sized empire

that escalation from city to empire is why we trust that God could wipe out earth at revelation 20:9

Do you believe we are now living in the eternal New Heavens and New Earth?

If not, when does the change happen?

.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Erik Nelson]

Do you believe we are now living in the eternal New Heavens and New Earth?

If not, when does the change happen?

.

think you are referring to the eternity AFTER Revelation 20:9

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net...tem-TFA.png/revision/latest?cb=20160415231856

 

[BABerean2]

think you are referring to the eternity AFTER Revelation 20:9

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net...tem-TFA.png/revision/latest?cb=20160415231856

You have not explained how we get from here to there (Revelation 20:9)...

.

 

[iamlamad]

John had been writing down the events, as he experienced them. But- come to chapter 10 - the seven thunders spoke, and now John will have to turn part of those experienced visions into the "mystery of God" He will rewrite parts and jumble them around. This mystery section will end with the 7th trumpet. This was all revealed to John during the time of Rev. 7 when he was not in the time of one of the opening of the seals. He had seen seals 1-6 be opened by the Lamb, but then came to him a new vision. A vision that would take time clear back to before even the 5th seal was opened.
standing on the four corners -
This shows that it is time to send the worst of the heathen against the land of Israel. He will come with several types of ways to slay people. Only the 4th seal rider/s was given more than one way to kill people.
There is more to tell, so later...just trying to show that Revelation is absolutely not given to us in the same way it was shown to John.

The last part = chapters 16-22 was not jumbled. John was told not to seal the sayings - of this -book. At that time, he had been writing of things from the little book that he'd eaten.

Odd to tell him not to seal this part, if he had not sealed any other sections up to this time.

Plus, there are two holy cities, and numerous plagues being shown in Revelation. Yet, the last part only is a warning as to one of those cities - and some of the plagues. - the plagues that can be added to a person

The trumpet plagues time is not that group. A person can be alive during those and still be saved- a Christian.
But be here in the time of the vials being poured...and men do not repent...
People can be in the holy city then, that is not the one being referred to in that - book. It is in the holy city New Jerusalem that will come down out of heaven. The plagues --the holy city -written in this book.
It is only talking about the time of Rev. 16-22.
The trumpet plagues are not found being told in detail in those. They are not the plagues -written in that book. Only the vials type full strength are told to us in the time of the little book that John ate.

Rev. 10
a little open book
/This is not the regular sealed book - the 7th seal was still not opened then. John is telling of events before that seal was even opened by the Lamb. He is telling what he wrote as to hidden from the time of Rev. 7.

Why did he eat this book, actually back in Rev. 7?
Because he would have more to tell people.
must prophesy -
This little book had sayings - more prophecy in it....and so we ended up having chapters 16-22. The words -the events written in the little book and not to seal those sayings. the time is at hand

chapter 1-3
shortly
chapter 4/hereafter
chapters 16-22 - the time is at hand
John was living in the time of the 6th king.
seven kings - five are fallen - one is

"But- come to chapter 10 - the seven thunders spoke, and now John will have to turn part of those experienced visions into the "mystery of God" He will rewrite parts and jumble them around."

This is MYTH - human reasoning simply because you don't understand it as John has written int. There NO JUMBLING.

ANY theory that insists on rearranging (imagining that John jumbled things) will be found in error. Believe this for it is TRUTH. If you understand the book, it makes total sense AS WRITTEN.

This was all revealed to John during the time of Rev. 7 when he was not in the time of one of the opening of the seals. He had seen seals 1-6 be opened by the Lamb, but then came to him a new vision. A vision that would take time clear back to before even the 5th seal was opened.

This is just MORE MYTH! The truth is, The Holy Spirit WILL NOT have Jesus open the 7th seal (which will start the 70tjh week of Daniel or "the trib") UNTIL the church is safely seen in heaven and the 144,000 are sealed. These two events MUST be accomplished before the Wrath of God begins, and it will begin the moment after the rapture.

AFTER these two events are accomplished, then the 7th seal WILL BE opened - as it is future to us today.

My point is, there is NO MYSTERY in chapter 7. It is as if John closes the curtain on the seals so he can rearrange the set before opening the curtain again.

Neither does chapter 7 take anyone back in time. Yes,the rapture will take place before the 6th seal, but JOhn is not writing in chapter 7 of the rapture, but AFTER the rapture took place. DON'T MESS with John's timing or you will be in error - EVERY TIME.

standing on the four corners -
This shows that it is time to send the worst of the heathen against the land of Israel.

Again I disagree. Why? The first trumpet judgments are GOD beginning systematically to DESTROY the WORLD - exact as promised. In other words, it is not "healthens" It is GOD. He causes the trumpets to be sounded.

 

[iamlamad]

Revelation does not just tell one long continuing story. It is broken down into sections and numerous visions.

chapter 1-3/in the Spirit
shortly come to pass
chapter 4/hereafter...in the Spirit
after
chapter 7
after
the mystery of God ends - 7th trumpet
...and more ---it will repeat at times, skip back in time to a former scene and add more details as to that already told about section of time

other visions begin
Rev. 18
after
Rev. 19
after
Rev. 21
one of the seven angels which had -full vial
/John is linking this character by what he already saw him do in the past.

Contrary to your belief system, which is seriously faulty, john did NOT "jumble" this book up. It is only human imagination that would imagine such a thing.

 

[iamlamad]

When do you think the day of the Lord starts?
The church is here till that day?
The day of the Lord will come as a thief.../but -the brethren are not in darkness as to that day?
Joel told how the moon becomes blood first, and Isaiah told how when it is that day -heaven -rolled as a scroll.

The day of the Lord and the day of Christ are the one and the same starting point in time.

We don't have to "think" where the Day of the Lord starts: John TELLS us it begins at the 6th seal. Some people say the 7th seal.

And Paul tells us that THE DAY follows instantly after his rapture of the church.

Yes, THE DAY comes as a thief - because HE - Jesus - comes as a thief. HE, Jesus, initiates the rapture and then instantly after THE DAY begins.

ARE we in darkness? Paul tells us those living in the light of the gospel will be raptured. EVERY believer should be WATCHING for His coming. How could we be in darkness if we believe the light of the Gospel?

1 Thessalonians 5:5
Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

Since Christ is Lord, I too believe they are referring to the same day. Some think the Day of Christ is the day of the rapture. I cannot prove that with scripture. I don't think anyone can.

 

[iamlamad]

We know that none of the seals are His judgment, as in the 5th seal-the martyrs want to know how long till He judges and avenges...their blood.
We know then for a fact that the church is here and still dying as martyrs in the time of the 5th seal.

We are finally in agreement here. Thank the Lord forever!

The 5th seals are church age martyrs. John PROVES this by showing is the timing of the first seals as soon as He ascended and sent the Holy Spirit down: Rev. 5.

However, the 6th seal is the start of the judgment they were asking about, so is future to us.

 

[iamlamad]

Jesus Christ told what happens immediately after the great tribulation.
the sun shall be darkened....the stars -fall
the sign of the Son of man in heaven

The church is not leaving any earlier than the time of the 6th seal.

4th - time of such as never was
5th seal -great tribulation
6th seal - end of trib events...day of the Lord begins...His wrath starts

Yes, agreed, there are signs of HIs coming: His coming as shown in Rev. 19 - His coming to Armageddon - BOTH the sun and moon darkened. This is speaking of total darkness - the Moon not visible.

But this is DISTINCT from the signs at the 6th seal, where the moon IS visible. These signs in the sun and moon are seen TWICE: first for the Day of the Lord, and then again 7 years later for the sign of His coming.

4th - time of such as never was
5th seal -great tribulation
6th seal - end of trib events...day of the Lord begins...His wrath starts

Sorry, but this part is total myth.

Either you don't understand Rev 4 & 5, or you simply do not believe what John is teaching us.

First Jesus NOT SEEN at the right hand of the Father.
First Jesus NOT FOUND in a search for one worthy

Then, after TIME has taken place, things change:

Someone WAS found worthy: Jesus was found.
And then John saw Jesus suddenly enter the throne room.

And there is a third witness: In chapter 4, the Holy Spirit there in the throne room. Jesus asked me - I heard His voice and His words: "WHY was the Holy Spirit there in the throne room, when I said, as soon as I ascend I will send Him down." I could not answer Him at that time.

Again, after TIME had transpired, Jesus appeared in the throne room and then immediately the Holy Spirit was sent down.

So, the big question is, WHAT does God want us to get from these things? What are we to learn? I know because He told me.

This was a vision of the past to John in 95 AD. John saw seeing the throne room while Jesus was on the earth, and before He rose from the dead. That is why Jesus was NOT at the right hand of the Father, because for 32 years He was on the earth and NOT beside the Father.

Jesus was not found in that first search that ended in failure because AT THAT MOMENT IN TIME - He had not yet risen from the dead.

But time passes - always - and in a subsequent search Jesus WAS found. This tells us that in the first search Jesus had NOT risen from the dead, but at the time of this other search Jesus had JUST risen from the dead, and was then found worthy.

And very shortly after Jesus rose from the dead, He ascended into the throne room and John got to see that very moment in time IN THE VISION.

So WHAT TIME is God trying to show us? He is showing us the moment in time Jesus ascended, right after telling Mary not to touch Him for He had not yet ascended. In other words, around 32 AD.

Go and read it - what did Jesus do first after ascending? He took the book and began opening seals.

So make no mistake here: the first seal was opened around 32 AD when Jesus ascended and took the book.

The first seal then, opened in 32 AD is to represent the CHURCH sent out with the GOSPEL. Jesus told them to make disciples of every nation.

Question: Is Satan going to allow the gospel to expand from nation to nation without a fight? No, of course not. The Devil was to do everything in his power to stop the advance of the gospel. For example, Stephen was stoned. And Paul was putting others to death.

Seals 2, 3 and 4 are to represent the devil's attempts to stop the advance of the gospel. He would uses wars, famines, pestilences and even wild animals.

Did you ever notice that the Red horse and rider, the black horse and rider and the pale horse and rider RIDE TOGETHER? They are NOT WITH the white horse and rider.

Notice that God limited the devil to 1/4 of the earth to try and hold the gospel in. That would take in Europe and Africa with the Middle East between. Did the devil succeed? No, for the gospel is everywhere now.

Where did world wars start? Europe, and were fought also in Africa. Where did the black plague hit (death) twice, killing perhaps 1/3 of the people each time? Europe. Where have the famines been? Mostly in Africa.

Even the 5th seal was opened right then, in 32 AD, for the martyrs of the church age. These are NOT 70th week martyrs! They are church age martyrs. 70th week martyrs were KNOW they had only to wait out the rest of the 70th week. These church age martyrs are told that judgment is not coming until the last church age martyr is killed.

This is a strong hint that the rapture would be the next event, for any martyr killed after the rapture would be in a different catagory: they would be 70th week or Day of the Lord martyrs. We see them showing up in chapter 15.

Therefore, "4th - time of such as never was" is MYTH. Teh 4th seal was opened in 32 AD and is for the church age. It was the pale horse and death - as in what Jesus said, "pestilences." The black plague, the AIDS epidemic, the yellow fever outbreaks. All this is church age. Notice that it comes before the 5th seal of church age martyrs.

The truth is, judgment will not start until the 6th seal, so the church has been waiting at the 5th seal for almost 2000 years now.

"5th seal -great tribulation" This is just more myth. The days of Great tribulation CANNOT come until the Beasts rise up, for they CAUSE the GT. And John does not show the beheaded showing up in heaven until chapter 15! You are about 2000 years off here.

"6th seal - end of trib events" More myth! It seems never to end! God is just about to BEGIN "the trib" with the 7th seal, and you have it finished. You could not be farther off if you TRIED!

Get this straight: "the trib" or the 70th week BEGINS at the 7th seal and ENDS at the 7th vial.

 

[iamlamad]

Rev. 7 -a vision begins - John was shown more information between the time of the end of the 6th seal and the opening of the 7th seal. He saw martyrs that came out of great tribulation. Martyrs are the ones that were being given white robes in the time of the 5th seal.

You are completely mistaken: there is not one HINT even that these are martyrs. The truth is, they are the raptured church! John has not yet started the "trib" ...much less arrived at the midpoint (it is in chapter 11) where Jesus said the days of GT would begin. No, in this case, John is only telling us that at the time of the rapture, people will be being put to death around the planet - just because they believe in Jesus. Always remember, for one that is martyred, it has been "great tribulation" for them. It cannot get any greater for they cannot be killed over and over.

Therefore these are NOT martyrs, they are raptured saints with resurrection bodies. And just as God promised, they are raptured just before the Wrath of God begins.

Is there ANY relationship between the martyrs at the 5th seal and these in the great crowd too large to number? Yes, of course, for the dead in Christ that rise at the rapture will INCLUDE all the martyrs. The martyrs at the 5th seal were told they had to wait - and at the 6th seal their wait is over: Judgment is starting.

Why would God begin to judge and avenge the blood of the martyrs if there were still more yet to die later for Him?

Simply because of a different catagory: church age martyrs versus 70th week martyrs. Church age martyrs are caught up with the dead in Christ at the pretrib rapture. 70th week martyrs will not be caught up until the end of the week. that would be at the 7th vial.

 

[miknik5]

Lamad,

Can you please explain where John was when Jesus breathed into his disciples and told them to receive the HOLY SPIRIT?

Did he also receive the HOLY SPIRIT?


Are you saying that John didn’t know that Jesus had ascended until after he was given a vision of the seals?

If that were the truth then he wouldn’t have received the Holy Spirit in the upper room because one of the requirements is the very truth that GOD raised him

And even the scripture regarding Elijah being taken up was a hidden prophecy and truth pointing us to CHRIST

 

[miknik5]

Even the theif on the cross understood that Jesus was “coming into HIS Kingdom”

Even as HE hung upon the cross beside him