Blame or responsibility?

[OldWiseGuy]

I’m questioning the premises of your question.

Fair enough.

What do you think the cause of bad outcomes is? You must have something other than poor decisions in mind.

Here's a group of 2.3 million (innocents notwithstanding) that are suffering bad outcomes because of bad decisions.

How many people are locked up in the United States?

I'm sure I could cite numbers in the millions who have made bad financial, career, health, relationship, etc. decisions. Just citing divorce alone would be a huge number in support of my premise.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

have never said that ^ , nor would I

have tended to think it's the school's fault when my child came home with bite marks on arm and face bruised from other kids (multiple times)

have tended to think no one's watching the kids at recess
however, as my child gets older, less school mishaps

so either the kids are behaving better/growing up
or my child is not playing near the "troublemakers" or combination of both

Maybe it's generational thing.

 

[quatona]

That's the very point I would like to explore...the details.

Then look at the details - in every single case.

My life is good. I'm about helping others...see the light.

You are giving unasked for and incompetent advice. You aren´t trying to help them, you are trying to lecture them. You are assuming a responsibility on your part that you don´t have.

Those actions referred to in the opening paragraph of the OP don't have life-long consequences. It was meant to illustrate the 'double jeopardy' children often face.

First of all, "double jeopardy" is a total misnomer for the call the parents make there.
Second, you aren´t the parent of the people you talk about.
Third, pointing out the consequences of the initial action is often just stating the obvious. The actual question is: What can they do with this knowledge - after the fact, and what can the observer do with it, after the fact. In any case, just stating responsibility and/or blame doesn´t help solving problems.
Fourth, you would have to explain how the initial paragraph relates to the problems of the persons you are talking about.

 

[quatona]

You have a good memory. That was a business decision.

...for which you don´t have to take responsibility?

 

[mama2one]

Maybe it's generational thing.

generational thing that some parents will say "if you hadn't done this or that, wouldn't have happened?"


cause I wouldn't say that but does sound like something my parents might have said

 

[OldWiseGuy]

generational thing that some parents will say "if you hadn't done this or that, wouldn't have happened?"


cause I wouldn't say that but does sound like something my parents might have said

You got it.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

...for which you don´t have to take responsibility?

I take full responsibility for my decisions.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Then look at the details - in every single case.


You are giving unasked for and incompetent advice. You aren´t trying to help them, you are trying to lecture them. You are assuming a responsibility on your part that you don´t have.




First of all, "double jeopardy" is a total misnomer for the call the parents make there.
Second, you aren´t the parent of the people you talk about.
Third, pointing out the consequences of the initial action is often just stating the obvious. The actual question is: What can they do with this knowledge - after the fact, and what can the observer do with it, after the fact. In any case, just stating responsibility and/or blame doesn´t help solving problems.
Fourth, you would have to explain how the initial paragraph relates to the problems of the persons you are talking about.

I have two "Agree's" on my OP. So at least two others actually understand what I've presented. If others don't...oh well.

 

[Madsaac]

By "good education" I assume you mean a college education. Why not the trades?

I'd rather see my taxes used for trade schools. We need more skilled tradespersons.

I pay taxes. I don't dictate how it's spent (however I do vote Republican, mostly).

You think Jesus would promote atheism and evolution? I think not.

Recall that college grads will earn $1Million more than me (a HS grad) in their lifetime. Why should I pay for their education?

Ouch!

You didn't address my point about people having various degrees of opportunity. Varying degrees of opportunity because of cultural influence, education, intelligence, environmental situations like being a single parent child, etc

The fact that you vote Republican says it all. Christianity and Republican values do not go together. Help thy neighbour..........

You give Christians a very bad name with your pathological tendencies

 

[Robert65]

Even parents lay 'double jeopardy' on their kids. "Well, if you hadn't 'done this or that, or gone here or there', this wouldn't have happened to you."

Assigning blame is simply charging someone responsibility for the consequences of their own actions or decisions. We are told "Don't blame the victim" whenever we are critical of some group that is having a hard time of it economically, medically, legally, socially, or whatever.

But what if it is actually their fault? Shouldn't it be pointed out that if they change their actions and decisions their lives would surely improve?

The direct approach will likely be met with one becoming defensive. Also we revisit the "You can lead a horse to water" analogy. Helping someone change for the better is like picking fruit off the vine, it is best to do when they are ripe for the picking else one will be just wasting their time.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You didn't address my point about people having various degrees of opportunity. Varying degrees of opportunity because of cultural influence, education, intelligence, environmental situations like being a single parent child, etc

This is true, and is a major reason why some don't do as well as others. What further comment are you seeking?

The fact that you vote Republican says it all. Christianity and Republican values do not go together. Help thy neighbour..........

That's harsh.

You give Christians a very bad name with your pathological tendencies

Ouch! (again).

 

[OldWiseGuy]

My goodness, the subject was sure deflected away from the OP's statement regarding personal accountability real fast.

Par for the course here. They're arguing more with me than with the topic.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The direct approach will likely be met with one becoming defensive. Also we revisit the "You can lead a horse to water" analogy. Helping someone change for the better is like picking fruit off the vine, it is best to do when they are ripe for the picking else one will be just wasting their time.

You've got the shoe on the wrong foot. I make my help available on my schedule, not theirs. If they don't like the conditions they can seek help elsewhere.

For example, I told my kids that if they wanted to go to college that I would pay half of their out of pocket costs...the second half. They would have to save up the first half and I would match it.