Billy Graham and the millions of babies born in China

[Basil the Great]

I watched the second half of a documentary about the late Rev. Billy Graham on PBS Monday night. Much of the 2nd hour dealt with his close relationship with President Nixon, but the most interesting item of all was his interview with a reporter in a NYC hotel room, after Billy had returned from some overseas crusades. According to the reporter, Billy told him that he once believed that all of the babies born in China who never hear the Gospel message are headed for Hell. However, Billy went on to say that he no longer believed such.

The reporter did not go into much more depth about the subject, other than Billy saying that it was his job to preach the Gospel and up to God to do the saving. Apparently Billy was taking the position that some here at CF take, but not all, that only God can judge the fate of every human soul and that this especially applies to those who never hear the Gospel message.

What think all of you about this situation? Might those who live and die without hearing the Gospel relayed to them still have a chance to go to Heaven or are they automatically doomed to go to Hell?

 

[HTacianas]

I watched the second half of a documentary about the late Rev. Billy Graham on PBS Monday night. Much of the 2nd hour dealt with his close relationship with President Nixon, but the most interesting item of all was his interview with a reporter in a NYC hotel room, after Billy had returned from some overseas crusades. According to the reporter, Billy told him that he once believed that all of the babies born in China who never hear the Gospel message are headed for Hell. However, Billy went on to say that he no longer believed such.

The reporter did not go into much more depth about the subject, other than Billy saying that it was his job to preach the Gospel and up to God to do the saving. Apparently Billy was taking the position that some here at CF take, but not all, that only God can judge the fate of every human soul and that this especially applies to those who never hear the Gospel message.

What think all of you about this situation? Might those who live and die without hearing the Gospel relayed to them still have a chance to go to Heaven or are they automatically doomed to go to Hell?

They will be judged by their actions in this life. So will you. So will I. The spread of the gospel has just as much to do with changing a person's behavior as it does changing their belief.

Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law

Rom 2:13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;

Rom 2:14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,

Rom 2:15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)

Rom 2:16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

 

[RDKirk]

I watched the second half of a documentary about the late Rev. Billy Graham on PBS Monday night. Much of the 2nd hour dealt with his close relationship with President Nixon, but the most interesting item of all was his interview with a reporter in a NYC hotel room, after Billy had returned from some overseas crusades. According to the reporter, Billy told him that he once believed that all of the babies born in China who never hear the Gospel message are headed for Hell. However, Billy went on to say that he no longer believed such.

The reporter did not go into much more depth about the subject, other than Billy saying that it was his job to preach the Gospel and up to God to do the saving. Apparently Billy was taking the position that some here at CF take, but not all, that only God can judge the fate of every human soul and that this especially applies to those who never hear the Gospel message.

What think all of you about this situation? Might those who live and die without hearing the Gospel relayed to them still have a chance to go to Heaven or are they automatically doomed to go to Hell?

Billy Graham became an "inclusivist", as was CS Lewis, and as am I.

What I see in scripture is that God's judgment takes into consideration our level of knowledge of Him. For instance, God refused to destroy the Ninevites until they had heard from a prophet, and He explicitly stated their ignorance as the reason why.

Jesus said, "The servant who knows the master's will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked." -- Luke 12

Jesus also said: "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains."-- John 9

Paul says this from the opposite direction, that those are condemned who refuse to accept the knowledge they have:

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness. For what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse. -- Romans 1

Paul can make this harsh assertion because he knows of Greeks who have recognized and acknowledged "God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature" in creation (Psalm 19) and sought God even without having been given a direct revelation (Job would fall into this category).

For as I walked around and examined your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Therefore what you worship as something unknown, I now proclaim to you.
...
God intended that they would seek Him and perhaps reach out for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us. ‘For in Him we live and move and have our being.’e As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are His offspring.’" -- Acts 17

So we cannot say with certainty that salvation hinges solely on having heard the gospel. Clearly the level of knowledge we have and how we have responded to that knowledge is a factor of God's judgment.

We have to remember that God is not an impartial judge. God is, in fact, biased toward salvation.

The Lord is not slow in keeping His promise as some understand slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish but everyone to come to repentance. -- 2 Peter 3

But here is the "trick" for Christians: We have been given the mission to preach the gospel to the entire world. That mission stands for us regardless how God handles those we fail to reach. I can only presume there are benefits to membership in the Body of Christ that go beyond bare salvation.

Regardless, we have been given the mission to preach the gospel, so we must do so: "From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked."

 

[ChetSinger]

...What think all of you about this situation? Might those who live and die without hearing the Gospel relayed to them still have a chance to go to Heaven or are they automatically doomed to go to Hell?

The throne judgment in Matthew 25 includes "all the nations", which to Jesus' listeners were understood to be those who were not chosen by God. Yet some of them attain the resurrection via what sounds to me like their works alone.

So I think there will be "unchosen" people in the resurrection. Perhaps they'll come under the umbrella of "love covers a multitude of sins".

 

[OldWiseGuy]

God is only calling the church, the firstfruits, in this age. He will call the rest during the millenial reign of Christ.

 

[Done222]

Jesus said He was the only way to the Father. Is it possible that some who never heard the gospel can go to Heaven? Yes, but it must still be true that they only made it to Heaven by Christ, because He is the only way to the Father.

 

[RDKirk]

Jesus said He was the only way to the Father. Is it possible that some who never heard the gospel can go to Heaven? Yes, but it must still be true that they only made it to Heaven by Christ, because He is the only way to the Father.

Yes. Only through Christ and Him crucified is it possible for anyone to be saved.

Notably, Job--who had no direct revelation of God, but knew God through creation--made this statement: "If only there were someone to mediate between us,
someone to bring us together,
someone to remove God’s rod from me,
so that his terror would frighten me no more." Job 9

That mediator, as we learn in 1 Timothy and Hebrews, is Jesus. Job did not know the name of Jesus, but he knew he needed Jesus and was frustrated by that unfulfilled need.

I believe that there are many people like Job who discerned God in creation and became unsatisfied whatever religion was preached by their own people, and led discomfited lives unless or until they heard the gospel.

 

[Saint Steven]

I watched the second half of a documentary about the late Rev. Billy Graham on PBS Monday night. Much of the 2nd hour dealt with his close relationship with President Nixon, but the most interesting item of all was his interview with a reporter in a NYC hotel room, after Billy had returned from some overseas crusades. According to the reporter, Billy told him that he once believed that all of the babies born in China who never hear the Gospel message are headed for Hell. However, Billy went on to say that he no longer believed such.

The reporter did not go into much more depth about the subject, other than Billy saying that it was his job to preach the Gospel and up to God to do the saving. Apparently Billy was taking the position that some here at CF take, but not all, that only God can judge the fate of every human soul and that this especially applies to those who never hear the Gospel message.

What think all of you about this situation? Might those who live and die without hearing the Gospel relayed to them still have a chance to go to Heaven or are they automatically doomed to go to Hell?

Interesting topic, thanks.

Yes, ultimately salvation is through Christ. But for those who haven't heard and even those who currently have not yet believed, there will be ultimate redemption.

1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

1 Timothy 4:10
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

1 John 4:14
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

 

[sawdust]

Might those who live and die without hearing the Gospel relayed to them still have a chance to go to Heaven or are they automatically doomed to go to Hell?

1 Tim.1:13 Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief.

The Lord only judges you on the truth you have been given. If you are given little, little is required.

 

[Ceallaigh]

God is only calling the church, the firstfruits, in this age. He will call the rest during the millenial reign of Christ.

I tend to hold that view as well. As I recall it says somewhere regarding that time period, that we will be ministers and teachers. So that must mean there will be those whom will be in need of ministry and teaching.

 

[Der Alte]

I watched the second half of a documentary about the late Rev. Billy Graham on PBS Monday night. Much of the 2nd hour dealt with his close relationship with President Nixon, but the most interesting item of all was his interview with a reporter in a NYC hotel room, after Billy had returned from some overseas crusades. According to the reporter, Billy told him that he once believed that all of the babies born in China who never hear the Gospel message are headed for Hell. However, Billy went on to say that he no longer believed such.
The reporter did not go into much more depth about the subject, other than Billy saying that it was his job to preach the Gospel and up to God to do the saving. Apparently Billy was taking the position that some here at CF take, but not all, that only God can judge the fate of every human soul and that this especially applies to those who never hear the Gospel message.
What think all of you about this situation? Might those who live and die without hearing the Gospel relayed to them still have a chance to go to Heaven or are they automatically doomed to go to Hell?

Romans 1:16-20
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Romans 1:24
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Romans 1:26
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

Psalms 19:1-9
1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.
7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.

Romans 4:15
15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Romans 5:13
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Romans 2:13-15
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another