BIG ERRORS: The Bride.

[Marilyn C]

Fail.

I didn't mention the root. I mentioned the tree. The "wild" branches are grafted into an existing tree and they both partake of the same root, that is the Lord. So you've 1) ignored the scripture cited, 2) ignored the context of the text, and three argued a red herring.

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The Lord is the Olive tree, He is the `Root and offspring of David.` (Rev. 22: 16) Israel is not the Olive tree. The branches are Israel & the Gentiles.

`For if you (Gentiles) were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches (Israel) be grafted into their own olive tree.`(the Lord) (Rom. 11: 24)

 

[Josheb]

Jesus taught us differently: Matthew 22:30 (WEB)
For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like God’s angels in heaven.

God is spirit. Those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth. A man can not marry a man. I cannot accept that God will marry thousands upon thousands of both men and women. Polygamy is bad enough. I can not accept this part of Revelation.

One body, many members or parts.

 

[Marilyn C]

Fail.

And you've proven my point: There is no two different blessings! There is one tree. Not two.

You said the church's inheritance is in heaven and Israel's is on earth. Yet scripture asserted and I have argued and now you have confirmed there is only one tree and its common root is Christ.

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`God....Having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both of which are in heaven and which are on earth - in Him. `(Eph. 1: 9 & 10)


The common root is Christ, and in Him all things come together in one, in harmony, under the Lordship of Christ. Things in heaven and things on the earth.

 

[Josheb]

The Lord is the Olive tree, He is the `Root and offspring of David.` (Rev. 22: 16) Israel is not the Olive tree. The branches are Israel & the Gentiles.

`For if you (Gentiles) were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches (Israel) be grafted into their own olive tree.`(the Lord) (Rom. 11: 24)

Still one tree. You're not proving the op. You argued two blessing. Can't be two different blessings for the same tree. At ;east you have yet to make the case for that premise. Can't be a tree that is half in heaven with one reward and half on earth with a different reward. Haven't made that case, either. Instead, you've acknowledge the root, tree, branches, and fruit are all Christ and his body.

 

[Josheb]

The common root is Christ, and in Him all things come together in one, in harmony, under the Lordship of Christ. Things in heaven and things on the earth.

Correct! NOT two different people, two different blessings or rewards!

Jeremiah 11:16
"The LORD called your name, "A green olive tree, beautiful in fruit and form"; With the noise of a great tumult He has kindled fire on it, And its branches are worthless."​

 

[Marilyn C]

Still one tree. You're not proving the op. You argued two blessing. Can't be two different blessings for the same tree. At ;east you have yet to make the case for that premise. Can't be a tree that is half in heaven with one reward and half on earth with a different reward. Haven't made that case, either. Instead, you've acknowledge the root, tree, branches, and fruit are all Christ and his body.

Right. Now that illustration shows we are all in Christ. However it does not go on to reveal the different inheritances. Other parts of scripture reveal that.

`But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the General assembly and church of the first-born who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, to Jesus...` (Heb. 12: 22 - 24)

Here we read of two groups - the Church, the Body of Christ, and the spirits of just men (& women)made perfect. These are the Old Testament saints who looked for a city.

`But now they (OT saints) desire a better, that is a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.` (Heb. 11: 16)

When the city, the New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven from God then the OT saints will be in it. The Body of Christ, however will be with the Lord on His throne on Munt Zion, the ruling area in the third realm, (angelic area).

`To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on my throne,...` (Rev. 3: 21)

Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

Correct! NOT two different people, two different blessings or rewards!

Two different groups.

`But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the General assembly and church of the first-born who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, to Jesus...` (Heb. 12: 22 - 24)

 

[Josheb]

Here we read of two groups...

No, here we read your eisegetic interpretation of the text, not what the text actually states.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Big Errors: The Bride.

I believe that many people have been wrongly taught that the Body of Christ is also the `Bride` of Christ. I personally find this very strange that men especially would believe this - men becoming a bride/female, when we are saying that people of transgender are against God`s ways. `Men, come to Jesus and be His bride!` That is quite wrong!


There is NO scripture that tells us that the Body of Christ is also the Bride of Christ. No Scripture. People say, `It means purity.` We can say purity but NOT that men have to be female, a bride, especially in this season of LGTB.


There are 2 scriptures that people use to wrongly make this doctrine.

1.Eph. 5: 25 - 33. This scripture is after 4 chapters where the apostle Paul has laid out the doctrine of the Body of Christ, the New MAN. Then in chapter 5 Paul starts to exhort children, wives and husbands. He encourages the husbands to love their wives as Christ does His BODY. It is an exhortation.


2.In 2 Cor. 11: 1 - 3 the Apostle Paul is speaking specifically to his disciples in Corinth and saying that he wants to present them to the Lord, in purity, like a virgin. This is just a symbol, and just for his disciples. Paul does NOT present us to the Lord for it is the Lord Himself who will present us. (Jude 24)



So who is the `Bride?`

God`s word tells us that Israel is the Bride.

`For your husband is your Maker, whose name is the Lord of hosts…for the Lord has called you like a wife forsaken….` (Isa. 54: 5 & 6)

`I will betroth you to Me forever; yes, I will betroth you to Me in righteousness and justice, in loving kindness and mercy; I will betroth you to Me in faithfulness, and you shall know the Lord.` (Hosea 3: 19 & 20)



Why is it important? There are different inheritances for Israel, (the Bride) and the Body of Christ, (the New Man).

`Let no one cheat you or your reward……and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the BODY, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.` (Col. 2: 18 & 19)


Marilyn.

No. The bride is the church.

Paul told this to a Gentile church (i.e. the Corinthians).

"For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ." (2 Corinthians 11:2).

The Bible references churches as females.
Even Israel is a woman in Revelation 12.
Revelation 17-18 speaks of another church. Well, it is a woman who represents a false church that gets destroyed during the time of the Tribulation. Granted, I am not allowed to say who this church is on the forums, though.

Now, this does not mean GOD is in favor of went on in Sodom & Gomorrah. He obviously destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for such a reason. The point of analogy here is that of a joining or committment. The idea is that it is wife is submission to a husband like man is in submission to the LORD. The metaphor is not to be taken to the far extreme here.

 

[prodromos]

And the noun is `the church,` the Body of Christ.

Both "bride" and "church" are feminine in Greek.

Η νύμφη
Η εκκλησία

You just keep on digging that hole deeper and deeper.
James 4:6

 

[Woke]

Big Errors: The Bride.

I believe that many people have been wrongly taught that the Body of Christ is also the `Bride` of Christ. I personally find this very strange that men especially would believe this - men becoming a bride/female, when we are saying that people of transgender are against God`s ways. `Men, come to Jesus and be His bride!` That is quite wrong!


There is NO scripture that tells us that the Body of Christ is also the Bride of Christ. No Scripture. People say, `It means purity.` We can say purity but NOT that men have to be female, a bride, especially in this season of LGTB.


There are 2 scriptures that people use to wrongly make this doctrine.

1.Eph. 5: 25 - 33. This scripture is after 4 chapters where the apostle Paul has laid out the doctrine of the Body of Christ, the New MAN. Then in chapter 5 Paul starts to exhort children, wives and husbands. He encourages the husbands to love their wives as Christ does His BODY. It is an exhortation.


2.In 2 Cor. 11: 1 - 3 the Apostle Paul is speaking specifically to his disciples in Corinth and saying that he wants to present them to the Lord, in purity, like a virgin. This is just a symbol, and just for his disciples. Paul does NOT present us to the Lord for it is the Lord Himself who will present us. (Jude 24)



So who is the `Bride?`

God`s word tells us that Israel is the Bride.

`For your husband is your Maker, whose name is the Lord of hosts…for the Lord has called you like a wife forsaken….` (Isa. 54: 5 & 6)

`I will betroth you to Me forever; yes, I will betroth you to Me in righteousness and justice, in loving kindness and mercy; I will betroth you to Me in faithfulness, and you shall know the Lord.` (Hosea 3: 19 & 20)



Why is it important? There are different inheritances for Israel, (the Bride) and the Body of Christ, (the New Man).

`Let no one cheat you or your reward……and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the BODY, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.` (Col. 2: 18 & 19)


Marilyn.

Body of Christ /bride of Christ are just metaphors.

Your comment about men being among the bride meaning that they would be transgender if true would apply just as much to Israel as the church, showing your analogy is weak.

How about the branch? All those are metaphors speaking of Christ's church, not Israel.

Today, and even more in biblical days, a husband exercises authority over his wife. That and the close relationship between them that each shares is all that bride of Christ means, no sexual connotation to it. Remember the scripture man is the head of woman, Christ is the head of man, God is the head of Christ? Look up 1 Corinthians 11:3.

So Christ is also the head of the collective church. He rules it like our brains rule our bodies. Like a husband rules his wife.

 

[dqhall]

One body, many members or parts.

Everyone may try to develop skills, strength and knowledge.

God is like a shepherd guiding a flock of sheep to pasture and safety.

Jesus also referred to himself as like a vine, the believers are like branches attached to the main trunk of the vine and his father like a worker pruning out unproductive vine branches.

 

[Blade]

New Jerusalem..how do you get OT Saints will be in it and the "bride/body of Christ" will be with Christ on His throne? Where GOD is also.. "even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne"
So were going to be with Christ and God the Father while OT saints will be in New Jerusalem?

Whats written about the new city "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God." I know how it was org written and nothing has changed.

Some things being said are speculation. Well some things you said are not written. Its what you personally believe.

 

[Marilyn C]

No. The bride is the church.

Paul told this to a Gentile church (i.e. the Corinthians).

"For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ." (2 Corinthians 11:2).

The Bible references churches as females.
Even Israel is a woman in Revelation 12.
Revelation 17-18 speaks of another church. Well, it is a woman who represents a false church that gets destroyed during the time of the Tribulation. Granted, I am not allowed to say who this church is on the forums, though.

Now, this does not mean GOD is in favor of went on in Sodom & Gomorrah. He obviously destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for such a reason. The point of analogy here is that of a joining or committment. The idea is that it is wife is submission to a husband like man is in submission to the LORD. The metaphor is not to be taken to the far extreme here.

Hi Bible Highlighter,

Paul is speaking specifically to his disciples, saying that he desires them to be pure, and that he would present them to the Lord. Paul does NOT present us to the Lord, for it is the Lord Himself who will present us. (Jude. 24)

Yes false religion is presented as a harlot, an unfaithful woman. This is shown in the OT as well. This does not mean that we are a `bride.`

The `bride` symbol is one of God`s purposes. It is for Israel as God is their owner, (symbol, husband) and is in the millennium and also in the New heavens and New earth - the new Jerusalem, AS a bride, describing the glory of God.

regards, Marilyn.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Hi Bible Highlighter,

Paul is speaking specifically to his disciples, saying that he desires them to be pure, and that he would present them to the Lord. Paul does NOT present us to the Lord, for it is the Lord Himself who will present us. (Jude. 24)

Yes false religion is presented as a harlot, an unfaithful woman. This is shown in the OT as well. This does not mean that we are a `bride.`

The `bride` symbol is one of God`s purposes. It is for Israel as God is their owner, (symbol, husband) and is in the millennium and also in the New heavens and New earth - the new Jerusalem, AS a bride, describing the glory of God.

regards, Marilyn.

Paul is saying I have espoused you (the Corinthians) to one husband (Christ) as if they were chaste virgins. This means they are the bride. The Corinthian believers. This is the most plain way to understand this passage in light of the other ones. But we can agree to disagree.

 

[Marilyn C]

Both "bride" and "church" are feminine in Greek.

Η νύμφη
Η εκκλησία

You just keep on digging that hole deeper and deeper.
James 4:6

Hi prodromos,

And of course you realise that In Ancient Greek, all nouns are classified according to grammatical gender (masculine, feminine, or neuter). In English we do not have such classification.

In God`s word unfaithfulness is described as a wonton woman. That does not mean the Body is a Bride. That false teaching is based on -

1. an exhortation.
2.Paul talking specifically to his disciples

That does NOT a doctrine make!

Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

Paul is saying I have espoused you (the Corinthians) to one husband (Christ) as if they were chaste virgins. This means they are the bride. The Corinthian believers. This is the most plain way to understand this passage in light of the other ones. But we can agree to disagree.

Paul is specifically speaking to HIS disciples. You cannot take that to yourself otherwise you would have to discount the Lord saying HE would present you to Himself.

` Now to Him (the Lord) who is able to keep you from stumbling, and TO PRESENT YOU faultless before THE PRESENCE of His glory with exceeding joy.` (Jude 24)

`...that I (Paul) MAY PRESENT YOU...TO CHRIST. ` (2 Cor. 11: 2)

Paul does NOT present us to the Lord, just his disciples.

And that does NOT a doctrine make!

Marilyn.

 

[prodromos]

And of course you realise that In Ancient Greek, all nouns are classified according to grammatical gender (masculine, feminine, or neuter). In English we do not have such classification.

And that is why you fail.
Also, you are aware that the New Testament was written in Koine Greek, not Ancient.

 

[Marilyn C]

New Jerusalem..how do you get OT Saints will be in it and the "bride/body of Christ" will be with Christ on His throne? Where GOD is also.. "even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne"
So were going to be with Christ and God the Father while OT saints will be in New Jerusalem?

Whats written about the new city "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God." I know how it was org written and nothing has changed.

Some things being said are speculation. Well some things you said are not written. Its what you personally believe.

Hi Blade,

Thank you for that important question.

`But now they, (OT saints ch. 11) desire a better, that is a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.` (Heb. 11: 16)

`But you have come to Mount Zion and to the CITY of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem...` (Heb. 12: 22)

`Then I, John saw the holy CITY, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven FROM God,..` (Rev. 21: 2)
God is with them in the spirit, as he is with us even now. However His eternal throne is above all & over all.

 

[Marilyn C]

And that is why you fail.
Also, you are aware that the New Testament was written in Koine Greek, not Ancient.

Thank you for the Greek lesson, however I`m sure the nouns in Koine Greek are also classified. BTW do you know how a doctrine is developed? Is it with a symbol, an exhortation?