Biden's Education Sec Pick Asked About Boys Playing in Girls' Sports

[FireDragon76]

Well, okay. I'd say that has no chance of happening, but if you take the opportunity right now to push hard on the issue, while school sports have taken a hit by COVID-19, who knows, you might make some progress. Considering how big school sports competition is in the American psyche, I seriously doubt you'll make any progress. And that doesn't affect adult sports.

Bread and circuses for the masses...

 

[Mayzoo]

So some folks honestly believe nontrans males are willing to be the laughing stock of their school, be regularly/constantly picked on at the minimum, and beaten (sometimes quite severely or to death) at the maximum just to rank higher in a sport? Some folks believe these kids would be willing to risk life, limb, and mental stability pretending to be what they are not, just to improve their stats? If they used those stats to get into a college, then they must continue the charade and the risk to their lives through college.

I simply find that very hard to believe that at a time when kids are so desperate to fit in, that they would intentionally sabotage their lives as they know it. IMO, it takes someone who is genuinely trans to be willing to risk their lives for what they believe is their true self.

 

[Mayzoo]

And you do realize right that even in boxing you have different divisions of competition. Heavy weight verses light weight? Why don't they all just fight together. Of course unfair advantage for one side.

In those events, would not the trans men be grouped by weight with the other men and visa versa for women?

 

[98cwitr]

Well, I doubt estrogen is banned by men's sports, so I guess you'd let transgender women play in men's sports, where they'd be at a serious disadvantage if they've been taking the estrogen treatments. Transgender men would be out of luck by your standards, though. Taking testosterone would make them ineligible for sports altogether. I can't really get behind your standards.

No, I don't think that's fair either.This is no real difference in logic than the "bathroom" argument. Go to the bathroom of your biological sex, play sports with your biological sex. This is simple and should not be offensive to anyone.

Isn't the real issue here boiling down to not gender, but instead gender roles?

On the other hand, I do have a problem with a lot of liberals on this. Many would go so far to say that a biologic male who simply identifies as female (no gender reassignment surgery, no hormone treatments, no nothin') should be allowed to play in women's sports. I can't go along with that, due to the obvious musculature advantages.

Those musculature advantages are still apparent. I recommend looking at current women's sports standings where transgender people are participating.

 

[WolfGate]

There’s a difference between saying something is fair and saying it should be allowed. In this case, I think it should be allowed because I think it would be incredibly rare for a trans girl not to have undergone any sort of social or physiological transition but suddenly insist on joining the girls’ team. The risk of girls getting dominated by a trans athlete in this sort of scenario is low. This also protects trans people from being judged as “not transitioned enough,” which can be devastatingly humiliating and invalidating. It seems that rules allowing for transgender participation have been abused a handful of times over the past few decades, but I’m not seeing evidence that it’s pervasive enough to merit banning them.

So I'm interpreting your position as a trans girl should be allowed to play even if medical/biological transition has not yet begun. While I am supportive of policies like the NCAA's (which allows after a year of testosterone suppression therapy), I could not agree with that.

Fundamentally, sports were separated by biological sex (not gender) to take into account the differences in physical abilities between the sexes. Any fair inclusion of MTF trans athletes in women's sports has to try to preserve that intention. Otherwise it is unfair to the biologically female participants. I understand it may be difficult if a trans athlete feels they are being told they are not transitioned enough. Biologically that may be true in order to compete, and if so they also need to not confuse gender with sex and recognize that doesn't impact their identity and also that their biological transition is something they control. It is also invalidating for biologically female athletes who have been training and working for years to have a chance to excel in their sport to then have a biological male step in and keep the from reaching goals that they have worked and invested so heavily in achieving.

I do not understand why so many on this thread seem to be wanting to give everything in the argument to one side and nothing to the other. No solution is perfect, but an all or nothing approach is simple and wrong either way. Title IX was a wonderful thing - it raised interest and participation in sports among girls and women without impacting percentages of boys and men who were able to play. I would hate to see some of that work undone by decisions that may be politically motivated instead of biologically balanced and taking into account the needs and desires of all athletes.

 

[KCfromNC]

So some folks honestly believe nontrans males are willing to be the laughing stock of their school, be regularly/constantly picked on at the minimum, and beaten (sometimes quite severely or to death) at the maximum just to rank higher in a sport? Some folks believe these kids would be willing to risk life, limb, and mental stability pretending to be what they are not, just to improve their stats? If they used those stats to get into a college, then they must continue the charade and the risk to their lives through college.

With questions like that, you're not going to get very far selling manufactured outrage to the overly credulous.

 

[gaara4158]

So I'm interpreting your position as a trans girl should be allowed to play even if medical/biological transition has not yet begun. While I am supportive of policies like the NCAA's (which allows after a year of testosterone suppression therapy), I could not agree with that.

I believe that no trans girl should be prevented from participating in girls’ sports. Trans girls who have undergone male puberty and haven’t undergone any transition shouldn’t join girls’ sports, but that should be up to them, not institutions. It seems obvious to me that most trans girls would see how that is unfair and just compete with the boys, and I’ve read about such cases where that’s what happens. It’s such a non-issue.

Fundamentally, sports were separated by biological sex (not gender) to take into account the differences in physical abilities between the sexes. Any fair inclusion of MTF trans athletes in women's sports has to try to preserve that intention. Otherwise it is unfair to the biologically female participants. I understand it may be difficult if a trans athlete feels they are being told they are not transitioned enough. Biologically that may be true in order to compete, and if so they also need to not confuse gender with sex and recognize that doesn't impact their identity and also that their biological transition is something they control. It is also invalidating for biologically female athletes who have been training and working for years to have a chance to excel in their sport to them have a biological male step in and keep the from reaching goals that they have worked and invested so heavily in achieving.

I agree with this sentiment, but with a small added caveat that sports don’t need to be separated by sex before puberty, and if a trans girl has been given puberty blockers into adolescence there is nothing wrong with her playing on girls’ teams.