Biden record of dealing with Pandemic - consistent with no Covid testing at border

[The Barbarian]

I'm thinking Trump's denial of the danger as a "hoax" and his unwillingness to listen to his doctors and scientists had a lot to do with nearly a half a million Americans dying in the pandemic.

I don't recall a single report where someone said "I am dying today because I did not believe the virus was real and for me the President of the United States has always been my chief biologist - and chief virologist".. much less half a million people saying it.

I don't remember anyone here saying that they did. However, Americans definitely blame Trump for his bungling of the COVID-19 response.
RealClearPolitics - Election Other - Public Approval of President Trump's Handling of the Coronavirus

 

[tz620q]

80% of covid deaths are at age 65 and over.

Mass infection of those in 30's has to do with their engaging in more group settings.

I suppose I should have been more explicit in my answer. I was referring to the H1N1 epidemic, not the Covid19 one.

 

[A_Thinker]

I don't recall a single report where someone said "I am dying today because I did not believe the virus was real and for me the President of the United States has always been my chief biologist - and chief virologist".. much less half a million people saying it. In fact I am pretty sure a lot of democrats died as well as republicans - even democratic candidates admit that the virus was not acting along party lines.

There are reports of patients dying from COVID ... even though they believed it was a hoax ...

 

[The Barbarian]

That's according to Jodi Doering, a South Dakota nurse who has gained national attention for her account of working on the front lines in a state where leaders have long minimized the impact of the virus and refused to implement rules like mask mandates.
...
"I have a night off from the hospital. As I’m on my couch with my dog I can’t help but think of the Covid patients the last few days. The ones that stick out are those who still don’t believe the virus is real," Doering wrote in a Saturday tweet.
...
She tweeted after her frustration boiled over, as she recalled numerous patients whose dying words echoed the same theme: "This can't be happening. It's not real."
South Dakota nurse says some COVID-19 patients die in denial

 

[BobRyan]

There are reports of patients dying from COVID ... even though they believed it was a hoax ...

There are reports of both Republicans and Democrats dying of COVID even though they did not believe COVID was a hoax and did not believe that American Presidents are "chief Biologist and chief virologist"

 

[BobRyan]

Speaking of H1N1 we have this

tz620q said: ↑
Under the "Could have been worse" category is that the reason younger people caught it more than older people was that a previous flu pandemic had given older people partial immunity.

Possibly or it is just because biology does not require that each virus have the same lethality, biological conditions change cases so some level of prior herd immunity might have been a factor. But doubtful since all the COVID deaths have the H1N1 prior immunity and that still did not stop the deaths to any great degree.


Speaking of COVID I said this

80% of covid deaths are at age 65 and over.

Mass infection of those in 30's has to do with their engaging in more group settings.

 

[A_Thinker]

There are reports of both Republicans and Democrats dying of COVID even though they did not believe COVID was a hoax and did not believe that American Presidents are "chief Biologist and chief virologist"

Perhaps the president shouldn't pretend to be the "chief Biologist and chief virologist" (i.e. stay in your lane) ...

 

[BobRyan]

I'm thinking Trump's denial of the danger as a "hoax" and his unwillingness to listen to his doctors and scientists had a lot to do with nearly a half a million Americans dying in the pandemic.

Only if you believe that none of them were democrats and none of them were Republicans that all knew the obvious detail that chief biologist and chief virologist is not "another title for American President". And only if you believe that none of them knew that Trump shut down the borders and the economy because of the severity of the pandemic.

So I guess if you "believe" that half a million people were thinking that. But for the rest of us...

I'm thinking Trump's denial of the danger as a "hoax" and his unwillingness to listen to his doctors and scientists had a lot to do with nearly a half a million Americans dying in the pandemic.

I don't recall a single report where someone said "I am dying today because I did not believe the virus was real and for me the President of the United States has always been my chief biologist - and chief virologist".. much less half a million people saying it. In fact I am pretty sure a lot of democrats died as well as republicans - even democratic candidates admit that the virus was not acting along party lines.

details matter. fiction-- not so much

Reality came slowly to some folks at CNN.

I don't remember anyone here saying that they did.

Then you don't remember claiming that 100% of the deaths were of people who did not believe the virus exists?

like this?

I'm thinking Trump's denial of the danger as a "hoax" and his unwillingness to listen to his doctors and scientists had a lot to do with nearly a half a million Americans dying in the pandemic.

Partisan media blamed Bush for rain fall, and Trump for halting travel from China...

However, Americans definitely blame Trump for his bungling of the COVID-19

So did Biden when he heard that Trump was blocking travel from China.

Nothing new in the partisan media and politics world -- business and usual.

Fortunately a "tiny spec" of truth got out about the hoax that BLM rioting did not spread COVID

"BLM SPIKE
LA Mayor Eric Garcetti admits Black Lives Matter protests DID lead to a spike in COVID cases"

"Garcetti said that social distancing “rules don’t change,” whether people are protesting, at home, at work, or shopping."

“In situations where people are close together for longer periods of time and it’s very crowded, we are certain that there is going to be spread,” Ferrer said.

“So, we’ve never said that there’s no spread from people who were protesting.”

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12026826/eric-garcetti-admits-black-lives-matter-protests-covid/

Meanwhile - "we were warned" about Biden

Biden has fought a pandemic before. It did not go smoothly.

“It is purely a fortuity that this isn’t one of the great mass casualty events in American history,” Ron Klain, who was Biden’s chief of staff at the time, said of H1N1 in 2019. “It had nothing to do with us doing anything right. It just had to do with luck. If anyone thinks that this can’t happen again, they don’t have to go back to 1918, they just have to go back to 2009, 2010 and imagine a virus with a different lethality, and you can just do the math on that.”


CDC estimated that 151,700-575,400 people worldwide died from (H1N1)pdm09 virus infection during the first year the virus circulated

Klain said “we did everything possible – wrong” – 60 million Americans contracted H1N1 in that period of time.

 

[BobRyan]

Perhaps the president shouldn't pretend to be the "chief Biologist and chief virologist"

I am still waiting for someone to quote him saying " I am chief Biologist and chief virologist" - false accusations are a dime-a-dozen. No 'news' there.

I am still waiting for someone to say "I am dying of COVID because I thought the President of the United States is also chief Biologist and chief virologist"

Censored News Network may believe that is what is going on... but I don't

 

[The Barbarian]

I'm thinking Trump's denial of the danger as a "hoax" and his unwillingness to listen to his doctors and scientists had a lot to do with nearly a half a million Americans dying in the pandemic.

Only if you believe that none of them were democrats and none of them were Republicans that all knew the obvious detail that chief biologist and chief virologist is not "another title for American President".

I have no idea what you're trying to say here. If you think the reality of all those deaths is merely a matter of political opinion, I'd have to disagree.

Then you don't remember claiming that 100% of the deaths were of people who did not believe the virus exists?

No, I don't remember anyone saying that.

like this?

Barbarian, earlier:
I'm thinking Trump's denial of the danger as a "hoax" and his unwillingness to listen to his doctors and scientists had a lot to do with nearly a half a million Americans dying in the pandemic.

That doesn't say anything remotely like what you said.

“It is purely a fortuity that this isn’t one of the great mass casualty events in American history,” Ron Klain, who was Biden’s chief of staff at the time, said of H1N1 in 2019. “It had nothing to do with us doing anything right. It just had to do with luck.

I notice that the H1N1 pandemic was not a disaster; your guy says Obama/Biden were just "lucky." And they say Trump was just "unlucky." Sure...

Trump's incompetence and unwillingness to listen to people who understood the danger was the reason he botched the COVID-19 response. As a result, half a million dead Americans.

60 million Americans contracted H1N1 in that period of time.

And 12,469 deaths from H1N1. On Trump's watch the next pandemic caused 498,258 American deaths. So far. We're not close to the end, yet.

That sums up the difference nicely, I think.

 

[tz620q]

Speaking of H1N1 we have this



Possibly or it is just because biology does not require that each virus have the same lethality, biological conditions change cases so some level of prior herd immunity might have been a factor. But doubtful since all the COVID deaths have the H1N1 prior immunity and that still did not stop the deaths to any great degree.

That's certainly true about changing lethality. The Spanish Flu epidemic in 1918-1919 was a H1N1 virus that started with low lethality and mutated to a much more lethal form. The H1N1 that caused an epidemic in 2009 was a much less lethal version. That is why Klain said with a little bad luck and higher lethality, the 60 million infected Americans could have had a lot more deaths.

In regards to the immunity of older people, I found this at this link:
The (H1N1)pdm09 virus was very different from H1N1 viruses that were circulating at the time of the pandemic. Few young people had any existing immunity (as detected by antibody response) to the (H1N1)pdm09 virus, but nearly one-third of people over 60 years old had antibodies against this virus, likely from exposure to an older H1N1 virus earlier in their lives.

 

[BobRyan]

I'm thinking Trump's denial of the danger as a "hoax" .

Saying things like "due to a hoax we are shutting down all travel from China"
and Saying "due to a hoax we are shutting down all non-essential business in America"??
And saying "due to a hoax we will put all American business on war time footing tot support the war against this deadly virus"?

And saying "we are going to create a vaccine faster than it was ever done before - for this hoax"??

You mean "that hoax"??

This is what lead half a million people to think it was nothing?

OR was it Pelosi partying in China town without a mask and telling U.S. citizens not to pay attention to the President warning about the spread of the virus?

Or was it Biden claiming that Trump was over reacting to the virus by shutting down travel from China?

hmmm...

 

[BobRyan]

The Barbarian said: ↑
I'm thinking Trump's denial of the danger as a "hoax" and his unwillingness to listen to his doctors and scientists had a lot to do with nearly a half a million Americans dying in the pandemic.

Only if you believe that none of them were democrats and none of them were Republicans that all knew the obvious detail that chief biologist and chief virologist is not "another title for American President". And only if you believe that none of them knew that Trump shut down the borders and the economy because of the severity of the pandemic.

So I guess if you "believe" that half a million people were thinking that. But for the rest of us...

I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

How else can you blame all 500,000 deaths on half a million people supposedly thinking it was a hoax that caused the U.S. to shut down travel from China, shut down the economy, switch to a war-footing for industry to manufacture supplies and vaccines to fight the "invisible enemy" as Trump called it?

You have have to portray them all as President Trump believers who thought he was over-reacting to switch to war-time measures for vaccine and medical intervention production since it is all a "hoax".

In fact I am not sure how you would stitch that story together at all.

 

[BobRyan]

I notice that the H1N1 pandemic was not a disaster; your guy says Obama/Biden were just "lucky." And they say Trump was just "unlucky." Sure... .

My guy??

that was Biden's guy saying that.

 

[The Barbarian]

Saying things like "due to a hoax we are shutting down all travel from China"
and Saying "due to a hoax we are shutting down all non-essential business in America"??
And saying "due to a hoax we will put all American business on war time footing tot support the war against this deadly virus"?

This:

NORTH CHARLESTON, S.C. — President Donald Trump accused Democrats of “politicizing” the deadly coronavirus during a campaign rally here on Friday, claiming that the outbreak is “their new hoax” as he continued to downplay the risk in the U.S.

“Now the Democrats are politicizing the coronavirus,” Trump said. “They have no clue, they can't even count their votes in Iowa.”

“This is their new hoax,” Trump continued, adding that attacking the White House’s response to the coronavirus had become the Democratic Party’s “single talking point.”
Trump calls coronavirus Democrats' 'new hoax'

President Donald Trump admitted to publicly downplaying the real threat of Covid-19 for weeks, even as cities and states shut down and more Americans fell sick, according to excerpts and audio recordings from reporter Bob Woodward’s forthcoming book Rage.

“I wanted to always play it down,” Trump said on March 19. “I still like playing it down, because I don’t want to create a panic.”

In several interviews with Woodward, Trump said he was aware of the threat of the novel coronavirus as early as January, and continued downplaying the true risk the disease presented well into March, when the US’s epidemic took off.
New audio proves it: Trump deliberately deceived America about the coronavirus

Stuff like that. We know he knew how bad it was, but he chose to "play it down." And his dishonesty thereby killed tens of thousands of Americans.

How else can you blame all 500,000 deaths on half a million people supposedly thinking it was a hoax that caused the U.S. to shut down travel from China, shut down the economy, switch to a war-footing for industry to manufacture supplies and vaccines to fight the "invisible enemy" as Trump called it?

Probably because Trump called the concern a "hoax", admitted he "played down" the danger, and promised that it would just go away "like a miracle."

This is why millions of his followers thought it was a hoax. He said so.

And that's why we have a half a million dead Americans. The death toll was much higher because he convinced his followers that it wasn't a big concern.

 

[The Barbarian]

My guy??

that was Biden's guy saying that.

You brought him in. Your guy.

But Americans aren't buying the story: "Obama was just lucky, and Trump was just unlucky."

 

[tz620q]

You brought him in. Your guy.

But Americans aren't buying the story: "Obama was just lucky, and Trump was just unlucky."

Isn't this a rather ridiculous thing to argue about. Neither Obama or Trump caused the pandemics. They didn't create the particular viruses that they had to deal with. The fact that that particular version of H1N1 in 2009 was much less lethal than the one that killed 50,000,000 people in 1918-19 is just pure luck of the genetic mutation draw. COVID19 is a different virus. Each new virus will need to be evaluated and measures taken to lessen it's impact. But the number of deaths is based on lethality more than contagiousness. Look at 2009, where an estimated 60 million Americans were infected. That is approximately the same as the number infected by COVID19. Why are there so many more COVID19 deaths than H1N1? To say that it is because of a lesser reaction by Americans to the pandemic is blatantly false and extremely demeaning to our health care system, which has done miracles in such a short time to change their approaches to this pandemic as new information and new treatments emerged. By making this a Trump versus Biden or Trump versus Obama thing is why Trump said that the Democrats were politicizing the pandemic.

 

[Job 33:6]

I don't recall a single report where someone said "I am dying today because I did not believe the virus was real and for me the President of the United States has always been my chief biologist - and chief virologist".. much less half a million people saying it. In fact I am pretty sure a lot of democrats died as well as republicans - even democratic candidates admit that the virus was not acting along party lines.

details matter. fiction-- not so much

Reality came slowly to some folks at CNN.


=============

When Donald Trump started calling the pandemic a political hoax by democrats, and he compared coronavirus to the flu. And when he did that, and he said that each year up to 50,000 people die from the flu, and when he said that coronavirus would just go away...

I agreed with Donald Trump. And that was back in March. And at the time, I said the same thing to other people. Trump said it was like the flu, and we only had a few thousand deaths at the time, so I just repeated what Donald Trump said.

I was influenced by Donald Trump.

But, as time went on, we came to find that indeed the virus was much worse than the flu. Deaths had risen to 20,000, then 30, then 40, then 50,000. And at that point, it became apparent that this wasnt just an average virus. We started seeing over 2000 people dying per day and eventually had had over 100,000 deaths.

Some people never gave up on their initial beliefs that covid was like the flu. Some just started saying "well, it's just a little bit worse but it's still not that bad".

Rather than 20-50,000 deaths (as with a normal flu season), we've now seen 500,000. 400,000+ of which were recorded in a single year.

But I think it's important to note that, while I admit that I was wrong in thinking that the virus was basically like the flu, Donald Trump never really admitted that he too was wrong. Instead he attempted to suggest that it was his intent to intentionally downplay the virus to prevent panic.

But I don't think Donald Trump was really fooling anyone. He made a serious blunder and misguided many Americans, arguably to their graves. He misguided me as well, and I am accepting of this.

It's the same thing with the riots. Donald Trump didn't explicitly tell rioters to attack the capitol. And yet, he clearly mislead his followers and influenced the riots with conspiracy theories and misinformation related to the election.

Now, don't get me wrong. I wouldn't use the word "incite". I think the impeachment efforts were unfounded because incitement would demand clear and unambiguous, intentional calls for riots, which Donald Trump did not give.

However, I think most reasonable republicans recognize that Donald Trump clearly was a negative influence and catalyst for the riots.

While some of us are smart enough not to think of Donald Trump as our expert source on virology, unfortunately many Americans arent particularly smart, and consider him an expert, none the less. Indeed, for a brief time, he was my expert virologist. Until the numbers taught me otherwise.

 

[The Barbarian]

Why are there so many more COVID19 deaths than H1N1? To say that it is because of a lesser reaction by Americans to the pandemic is blatantly false and extremely demeaning to our health care system, which has done miracles in such a short time to change their approaches to this pandemic as new information and new treatments emerged.

Well then, let's see what the people in the health care system have to say about that...

A new Columbia University study released this week suggests the U.S. delay in reacting to the COVID-19 pandemic cost the nation tens of thousands of lives.

The study, conducted by three Columbia University researchers, and funded by the U.S. National Institutes of Health and the National Science Foundation, suggests that if control measures designed to control the spread of the coronavirus had begun by March 1 — two weeks earlier than most measures began — 83% of the nation’s deaths by the virus could have been prevented.

The study says even one week earlier would have saved as many as 36,000 lives.

The researchers say the most basic of measures, such as social distancing and restricting individual contact in the early stages of the pandemic in the U.S., would have prevented the spread of the disease in “hot spots” such as New York, New Orleans and other major cities.

The study’s lead researcher, epidemiologist Jeffrey Shaman, told The New York Times that catching the virus in the early “growth” phase is critical in the exponential spread of the disease and in reducing deaths.
Delayed US COVID Reaction Cost Lives, New Study Finds

 

[Job 33:6]

Well then, let's see what the people in the health care system have to say about that...

A new Columbia University study released this week suggests the U.S. delay in reacting to the COVID-19 pandemic cost the nation tens of thousands of lives.

The study, conducted by three Columbia University researchers, and funded by the U.S. National Institutes of Health and the National Science Foundation, suggests that if control measures designed to control the spread of the coronavirus had begun by March 1 — two weeks earlier than most measures began — 83% of the nation’s deaths by the virus could have been prevented.

The study says even one week earlier would have saved as many as 36,000 lives.

The researchers say the most basic of measures, such as social distancing and restricting individual contact in the early stages of the pandemic in the U.S., would have prevented the spread of the disease in “hot spots” such as New York, New Orleans and other major cities.

The study’s lead researcher, epidemiologist Jeffrey Shaman, told The New York Times that catching the virus in the early “growth” phase is critical in the exponential spread of the disease and in reducing deaths.
Delayed US COVID Reaction Cost Lives, New Study Finds

I actually know some government officials with experience in the department of health. And there were experts calling for shutdowns literally a month before our nation reacted (if not earlier).

A lot of data is demonstrating that the virus had actually entered our country and was spreading by late January, but our country didn't really respond until early to mid March.

I think it was a combination of faults. Yes, it is the federal government's job to help states coordinate to effectively respond to these issues. But I think state governments were also caught off guard.

But I think that this is all the more reason that Donald Trump should have taken a more conservative stance and warned against potential dangers. Rather than marking it off as a big political hoax involving a virus similar to the flu.

It is feasible to suggest that if we had a different president in office, things may have been different. Especially considering that our nation has suffered the worst of any other nation on earth, it's certainly feasible to think that we could have done better, if we had the right guidance at our head.