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And don't forget one of the greatest hits of the decade - "open economic borders" morphing magically to "open borders".
I do recall that there was no impeachment attempt that year or the next year or the next.Don't recall 2016?
Seriously? I neither said nor implied that. I've stated quite clearly over and over and over again that foreign interference in an American election is unlawful while American participation is lawful. What is difficult in understanding "foreign" vs "American" in regards to American elections? Dirty tricks [by Americans against American opponents] are a time honored tradition here.I'm sorry....
You'll have to be more clear about what you mean by Russian interference....
Are we talking about Russian trolls spreading disinformation on Facebook groups?
I can't really answer until I know what you consider "election interference" because apparently, a coordinated effort to spread disinformation isn't something that qualifies in your book.
Sure, erasing the audit trail in a thread is always so helpful!Is it clear now? I admitted my mistake. If it's still unclear I'll rewrite that post.
Non sequitur. Private citizens aren't covered by the Hatch Act.Right...I haven't gone through the entire list nor do I know what sort of work this private company of the letter author does....
Uh-huh.Which is why I asked if you knew.
Well okay! What fact fact did "the government" pay this company to do for them? I wasn't questioning that some signers work for the letter's author but that they were doing private contract work for "the government" that would have precluded their signing a letter of opinion that the whole laptop from hell October Surprise had looked like Russian disinformation:Uh....as in "the government pays this company to do something for them". It's not so much "hint hint" as it is "fact fact" that multiple signers work for the business run by the letter’s author.
Did Fusion GPS do contract work for the US government?If I had to guess, they're probably another Fusion GPS....but I honestly have no idea.
Open borders is an accurate description.
It's not my fault many on the left have blatantly supported "open borders" and I didn't come up with the meaning either.
Open borders is what this administration supports....and open borders is what we have.
Mega dittoes. Our conservative friends are always ready to round up the usual suspects. Soros, of course. But they mustn't forget Warren Buffett, Bill Gates, the Rockefeller Foundation, the Council on Foreign Relations, PBS, Steven Spielberg, Barbra Streisand, Oprah, and Bob Iger's Disney Organization. And I'm sure Hillary Clinton has her dirty hands in there somewhere..It's fascinating how concepts promoted by the Conservisphere become metastasized in the minds of their audience. We see it over and over. Between slogans like "you didn't build that", "what difference does it make (sic)" and "some people did something"; inversions of reality like "Hillary colluded with the Russians", "Biden shook down Ukraine to protect Hunter" and "Biden works for the CCP"; to outright fan fiction like "there was widespread fraud in 2020" and "Trump actually won, but the only reason it looked like he didn't is because the government (which was run by Trump, but actually was the deep state), the liberal media (WSJ), leftist social media and George Soros conspired to keep the laptop secret and thereby fooled people into voting for Joe Biden".
It's really quite something to witness.
I do recall that there was no impeachment attempt that year or the next year or the next.
Seriously? I neither said nor implied that.
I've stated quite clearly over and over and over again that foreign interference
in an American election is unlawful while American participation is lawful.
What is difficult in understanding "foreign" vs "American" in regards to American elections? Dirty tricks [by Americans against American opponents] are a time honored tradition here.
Sure, erasing the audit trail in a thread is always so helpful!
Non sequitur. Private citizens aren't covered by the Hatch Act.
Uh-huh.
Well okay! What fact fact did "the government" pay this company to do for them?
I wasn't questioning that some signers work for the letter's author
but that they were doing private contract work for "the government"
that would have precluded their signing a letter of opinion that the whole laptop from hell October Surprise had looked like Russian disinformation:
We want to emphasize that we do not know if the emails, provided to the New York Post by President Trump’s personal attorney Rudy Giuliani, are genuine or not and that we do not have evidence of Russian involvement -- just that our experience makes us deeply suspicious that the Russian government played a significant role in this case.
Did Fusion GPS do contract work for the US government?
Yeah, Biden should never have torn down Peaches,
put up welcome mats at the crossings
and directed border guards to just wave in all foreigners.
Mega dittoes. Our conservative friends are always ready to round up the usual suspects. Soros, of course. But they mustn't forget Warren Buffett, Bill Gates, the Rockefeller Foundation, the Council on Foreign Relations, PBS, Steven Spielberg, Barbra Streisand, Oprah, and Bob Iger's Disney Organization. And I'm sure Hillary Clinton has her dirty hands in there somewhere..
Did you just copy and paste the passenger logs of the Lolita Express?
Or are those just lucky guesses?
You forgot Will Smith and Steven Colbert....but it's a pretty close guess. Bravo.
I'd say that it is quite a stretch to think that Trump's DOJ was looking to impeach him. Ditto the Republican-led House, ditto the Republican-led Senate. Nor do I think it likely that the Obama administration was looking to impeach him before he was elected.There was an investigation beginning in 2016 (at least) into the Trump campaign and I don't think it's a stretch to say that the goal was impeachment.
I don't believe you are sincere in your arguments or your professed confusion.Ok....
Again, you'll need to be more clear about what you mean by "foreign interference".
A lot of posters on here, are in fact foreign, and they have (believe it or not) expressed complete nonsense about various candidates up for election as if it were factual.
Despite the fact that you're about to describe "foreign interference" as unlawful....you seem keenly aware that simply because you're from a different country doesn't mean you cannot go online and spread disinformation or misinformation.....about US politicians....even when they are up for election.
To my knowledge, that's mainly what the Russian disinformation was in 2016.
Is there something else you meant by "foreign interference"? Because I don't know if you're aware of this....but there's a "oster-pay" from "ermany-Gay" on this website who is sometimes wrong regarding US political candidates.
Do you think foreign posters on CF are breaking the law when the speak falsely of US politicians?
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you actually understand the difference between foreign and domestic....between a citizen of a foreign nation and one of the USA....
What I don't understand is what you mean by "interference". I didn't pay attention to every detail of every accusation made against Trump in 2016...particularly those involving Russia and the election. These accusations were like the stars in the night sky....too numerous to count, too distant to hold significance....and too many goofballs who believe in horoscopes were willing to endlessly tell you how important they were....
Maybe you know something I don't though....and maybe you know something actually illegal that happened. If being foreign to the US and factually incorrect were a crime....about 15-20% of the posters here would be doing life.
Oh, it had a genuine point: changing your old post would be way less than helpful. Did you really think otherwise?So is sarcasm without any genuine point!
Is that supposed to be an example of a non-sequitur? You don't need to label them before you write them.
That's right. Do you know what the Hatch Act is?I don't recall mentioning the Hatch Act. You did that.
Know what?You don't know...do you?
Yeah, that's the wink, wink nudge, nudge. You didn't mention any actual fact fact.That's not the fact I mentioned.
That is a totally different point from "Uh....as in "the government pays this company to do something for them".I said multiple signers work for the author. They're employees of his business. Imagine Jeff Bezos offering his professional opinion on how much time the average employee needs for restroom breaks during a 12 hour shift....and in his letter explaining this, he has a bunch of other experts signing their names in agreement.
If any of those names currently get their paychecks from Bezos....is their expertise still valid? Or does it lose some credibility?
Yeah, you implied it (wink wink nudge nudge): "Uh....as in "the government pays this company to do something for them".Why would you? As far as I can tell....you had no idea they worked for the author until I told you.
I didn't say that lol.
You are not the Great Informer you take yourself to be.Look...you had no idea who most of those signers were, right? You took it at face value because the media sources reporting on the letter are responsible/credible in your mind....right?
I meant what I said not what you want me to have meant.Laptop from hell/October Surprise.
By which you mean....factual reporting.
That's interesting....in their experience....
Do they have some sort of experience with weighing the validity of intel they've never seen nor reviewed the evidence for?
What exactly is their experience regarding scandals...true or false...and the timing of the scandal in relation to the candidates' opportunity? I wonder if they thought the Kavanaugh accusation was an attempt at Russian disinformation....30+ years and right before he gets the job.....scandal lol!
Strawman.Perhaps you forgot about the previous "Russian disinformation" claims of the 2016....and perhaps so did these former intel officials....because they didn't start with a Russian disguised as Hunter Biden dropping off a laptop of evidence at a repair shop.
Trump's campaign was not spied on - the FISA warrant was on Carter Page after he left the campaign.I wonder what part of their experience led them to jump wildly to the wrong conclusion?
Depends on how you look at it...they did contract work for the Hillary Clinton campaign and put together the Steele dossier which somehow ended up as the FBI's justification for a warrant to spy on Trump.
Disseminating opposition research to the FBI, yeah. Hacking the DNC email, giving them to Wikileak, and co-ordinating the leaks with the campaign managers? Foreign interference.But I suppose you'd just summarize that as...."election participation" lol.
Who is Peaches?
Who were?Well they were wearing his campaign shirts.
That's Biden literally telling illegals they should "surge to the border".
I'm not sure why a welcome mat would be needed.
Haven't heard how those border guards feel about their jobs huh? Do you think they are also under the illusion that people aren't merely being allowed in....but they're being transported around the country on the taxpayer dime?
Wanna hear what they said about receiving more funding?
There was an investigation beginning in 2016 (at least) into the Trump campaign and I don't think it's a stretch to say that the goal was impeachment.
Ok....
Again, you'll need to be more clear about what you mean by "foreign interference".
A lot of posters on here, are in fact foreign, and they have (believe it or not) expressed complete nonsense about various candidates up for election as if it were factual.
Despite the fact that you're about to describe "foreign interference" as unlawful....you seem keenly aware that simply because you're from a different country doesn't mean you cannot go online and spread disinformation or misinformation.....about US politicians....even when they are up for election.
To my knowledge, that's mainly what the Russian disinformation was in 2016.
Is there something else you meant by "foreign interference"? Because I don't know if you're aware of this....but there's a "oster-pay" from "ermany-Gay" on this website who is sometimes wrong regarding US political candidates.
Do you think foreign posters on CF are breaking the law when the speak falsely of US politicians?
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you actually understand the difference between foreign and domestic....between a citizen of a foreign nation and one of the USA....
What I don't understand is what you mean by "interference". I didn't pay attention to every detail of every accusation made against Trump in 2016...particularly those involving Russia and the election. These accusations were like the stars in the night sky....too numerous to count, too distant to hold significance....and too many goofballs who believe in horoscopes were willing to endlessly tell you how important they were....
Maybe you know something I don't though....and maybe you know something actually illegal that happened. If being foreign to the US and factually incorrect were a crime....about 15-20% of the posters here would be doing life.
So is sarcasm without any genuine point!
Is that supposed to be an example of a non-sequitur? You don't need to label them before you write them.
I don't recall mentioning the Hatch Act. You did that.
You don't know...do you?
That's not the fact I mentioned.
I said multiple signers work for the author. They're employees of his business. Imagine Jeff Bezos offering his professional opinion on how much time the average employee needs for restroom breaks during a 12 hour shift....and in his letter explaining this, he has a bunch of other experts signing their names in agreement.
If any of those names currently get their paychecks from Bezos....is their expertise still valid? Or does it lose some credibility?
Why would you? As far as I can tell....you had no idea they worked for the author until I told you.
I didn't say that lol. Look...you had no idea who most of those signers were, right? You took it at face value because the media sources reporting on the letter are responsible/credible in your mind....right?
Laptop from hell/October Surprise.
By which you mean....factual reporting.
That's interesting....in their experience....
Do they have some sort of experience with weighing the validity of intel they've never seen nor reviewed the evidence for?
What exactly is their experience regarding scandals...true or false...and the timing of the scandal in relation to the candidates' opportunity? I wonder if they thought the Kavanaugh accusation was an attempt at Russian disinformation....30+ years and right before he gets the job.....scandal lol!
Perhaps you forgot about the previous "Russian disinformation" claims of the 2016....and perhaps so did these former intel officials....because they didn't start with a Russian disguised as Hunter Biden dropping off a laptop of evidence at a repair shop.
I wonder what part of their experience led them to jump wildly to the wrong conclusion?
Depends on how you look at it...they did contract work for the Hillary Clinton campaign and put together the Steele dossier which somehow ended up as the FBI's justification for a warrant to spy on Trump.
But I suppose you'd just summarize that as...."election participation" lol.
Describes what we are talking about
President Joe Biden’s 2020 campaign colluded with U.S. intelligence agencies to rig the election by discrediting and helping censor the Hunter Biden laptop scandal, according to an explosive report Wednesday from the House Judiciary and Intelligence committees and the select subcommittee on the weaponization of the federal government.
Former or no - they were using their titles and positions to bolster misinformation that was beneficial to BodenFive days after the Post story, 51 former intelligence community officials, using their official titles and citing their national security credentials, released a public statement suggesting the story “ha[d] all the classic earmarks” of Russian disinformation.4 Three days after that, Vice President Biden used this public statement in a nationally televised presidential debate to rebut President Trump’s criticisms, asserting “there are 50 former national intelligence folks who said that what this, he’s accusing me of is a Russian plan
That you have to take up with the authorThat is simply a false statement. These were 51 former IC members....and were not active members of the intelligence agencies.
But kudos to the article for including tigger terms such as"colluded", "censor", "explosive"....
Former or no - they were using their titles and positions to bolster misinformation that was beneficial to Boden
Assessment of the material they never reviewed?They bolstered their opinion and assessment of the material based on what was known at the time. That is clearly visibile in the committee report. They did so legally. There is nothing to see here.
From the link in the OP
The public statement by 51 former intelligence officials was a political operation to help elect Vice President Biden in the 2020 presidential election. Contemporaneous emails show the organizers’ intent in drafting and releasing the statement: “[W]e think Trump will attack Biden on the issue at this week’s debate and we want to offer perspectives on this from Russia watchers and other seasoned experts,”12 and “we want to give the [Vice President] a talking point to use in response.”13 • The Biden campaign took active measures to discredit the allegations about Hunter Biden by exploiting the national security credentials of former intelligence officials. On October 17, 2020, Biden campaign advisor—now Secretary of State—Antony Blinken contacted former Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) Acting Director Michael Morell to discuss the Post’s reporting. Morell told Blinken that he was not familiar with the reporting and Blinken later emailed Morell a USA Today article alleging the FBI was investigating whether it was Russian disinformation.14 At the bottom of the email was the signature block of Andrew Bates, then-director of rapid response for the Biden campaign.15 Following this outreach from the Biden campaign, Morell began the process of drafting the statement—something Morell testified would not have happened but for Blinken’s communication. In addition, following the October 22 presidential debate— during which Vice President Biden used the public statement to rebut President Trump’s criticisms—Biden campaign chairman Steve Ricchetti called Morell to thank him for the statement.
They used their titles and influence to make a false statement that altered a national election.And so?
You mean like a typical campaign commercial? Even if they did somehow influence the election (which is unlikely), it's perfectly fine for them to do that. I mean, if they were making false statements (and there seems to be no sign of that), that's unethical, but again, that's like the typical campaign commercial.They used their titles and influence to make a false statement that altered a national election.
*FORMER* titles. Any group of people with fancy histories in government can group together to support a candidate or challenge the claims of a candidate. It's a free country.They used their titles and influence to make a false statement that altered a national election.
Good for him. And he's been doing a good job of it too.The architect of it was rewarded with a cabinet position.
There is nothing objectively false about what was stated in the letter. So far, the only thing that has been confirmed about the story is that at least some of the emails are genuine, which the letter makes zero claims about (in fact, it states "We want to emphasize that we do not know if the emails, provided to the New York Post by President Trump’s personal attorney Rudy Giuliani, are genuine or not and that we do not have evidence of Russian involvement -- just that our experience makes us deeply suspicious that the Russian government played a significant role in this case"). The emails being real or fake has no bearing on whether or not this was an attempt by the Russian government to influence the election, which this did (and still does) look like to people with knowledge of such things.They used their titles and influence to make a false statement that altered a national election.
So?The architect of it was rewarded with a cabinet position.
I hear tell that former President Trump has used his title and influence to make false statements to influence a national election. FEC don't care about any of this, even if Jim Jordan expires angry about it.They used their titles and influence to make a false statement that altered a national election.
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