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Biblical examples of people who lost their salvation

Discussion in 'Salvation (Soteriology)' started by Miss Shelby, May 8, 2002.

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  1. Miss Shelby

    Miss Shelby Legend

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    King Saul

    1 Samuel 10:1
    1 Then Samuel took a flask of oil and poured it on Saul's head and kissed him, saying, "Has not the Lord anointed you leader over his inheritance?

    1 Samuel 16:14
    14 Now the Spirit of the Lord had departed from Saul, and an evil [1] spirit from the Lord tormented him.

    It is well known that King Saul made some pretty foolish and jealousy-driven decisions in between time.


    The circumcision group in Galatians

    Galatians 5:4
    4You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. :eek:

    Luke 8:13--The believers who fell away

    13Those on the rock are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.

    1 Timothy 18-20: Hymenaeus and Alexander


    18Timothy, my son, I give you this instruction in keeping with the prophecies once made about you, so that by following them you may fight the good fight, 19holding on to faith and a good conscience. Some have rejected these and so have shipwrecked their faith. 20Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.

    And ofcourse, my personal favorite Judas Iscariot whom you can read all about by clicking here:

    http://www.christianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12510


    Michelle
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. MissytheButterfly

    MissytheButterfly Back and Better than EVER!

    +5
    Solomon

    His Salvation:
    1 Chronicles 22:10 -- He shall build an house for my name; and he shall be my son, and I will be his father; and I will establish throne of his kingdom over Israel for ever.
    This prophecy was given to David regarding Solomon. This prophecy came true, thus he was a child of God, and God was his Father.

    His Departure:
    1 Kings 11:4 -- For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as was the heart of David his father.

    See also 1 Kings 11:9, 1 Chronicles 28:9, and 1 Kings 11:40. You cannot "turn away", unless you were there to begin with.


    Demas

    His Salvation: Philemon 24: -- Marcus, Aristarchus, Demas, Lucas, my fellowlabourers.
    This doesn't necessarily prove that Demas was saved, but it gives a very good clue seeing he was following Paul and Paul even labeled a "fellowlabourer". Paul was picky about who traveled with him, as witnessed by Acts 15:37-41, where he refused to take someone with him because of a past experience of unfaithfulness.

    His Departure:
    2 Timothy 4:10 -- For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica;..."

    If any man loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. It is apparent that Demas was a believer, and then turned to the world.

    Fruitless Christians

    Their Salvation/Departure: John 15:2 -- Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

    John 15:6 -- If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

    There is a story in Matthew about a servant of the King who was given one talent and told to make good use of it. He didn't. He never lost the talent, but he was fruitless in getting more. What happened to this man?

    Matthew 25:30: And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
     
  3. Miss Shelby

    Miss Shelby Legend

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    Great points, Missy. :)

    A friend of mine once used a frightening analogy about believing the doctrine of OSAS.

    Think of the people who went aboard the Titanic. They were taught that it was unsinkable. They believed that it was unsinkable. They put their trust in the fact that it was unsinkalbe. And most of them died.

    Michelle
     
  4. tericl2

    tericl2 A Work in Progress

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    They put their trust in men, they believed men, they died trusting in men. In the end we can see that trust in men and worldly things is greatly misplaced.

    I am thankful that my faith and trust is in a God who doesn't change and is faithful to fulfill the covenant He made with me at the time i accepted his grace.
     
  5. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    Would you actually like me or someone to address these?

    "It is well known that King Saul made some pretty foolish and jealousy-driven decisions in between time. "

    Just one question...Do you know that this is talking about anounting (sp) ? I'm not willing to say that loosing your anouinting in biblical times means you go to hell. If that was the case all of Israel, despite what Paul tells us, are going to hell.
     
  6. Miss Shelby

    Miss Shelby Legend

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    Go for it, Louis. It's a free-for-all--but it looks like there aren't too many others interested in participating.

    Well, I was actually looking more at 'the Spirit of the Lord left him' as being the point where he may have lost his salvation.

    Michelle
     
  7. fragmentsofdreams

    fragmentsofdreams Critical loyalist

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    The problem with debating whether someone who is saved can lose their salvation is we don't know who is saved and who is not. We have only personal testimony to guide us, but how does someone who isn't saved know what is like to be saved? People who tell us that they are saved can either be self-deluded or lying for social approval.
     
  8. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    "Well, I was actually looking more at 'the Spirit of the Lord left him' as being the point where he may have lost his salvation. "

    Well, I would look at it as the anonting of the LORD left him. You also have to remember that in those days the spirit was not poured out on everyone either. :) I would say that he was no longer fit to lead Israel thus the loss of anounting.
     
  9. Miss Shelby

    Miss Shelby Legend

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    tericl2:

    They put their trust in men, they believed men, they died trusting in men. In the end we can see that trust in men and worldly things is greatly misplaced.

    I am thankful that my faith and trust is in a God who doesn't change and is faithful to fulfill the covenant He made with me at the time i accepted his grace.


    It is my opinion that the doctrine of OSAS is a man-made doctrine. It is built on certain scriptures and excludes the scriptures which encourage us to persevere and hold fast to our precious faith. I don't think that everyone who believes in OSAS will be lulled into a false sense of security, but I believe alot of people could be.

    fragmentofdreams:

    The problem with debating whether someone who is saved can lose their salvation is we don't know who is saved and who is not. We have only personal testimony to guide us, but how does someone who isn't saved know what is like to be saved? People who tell us that they are saved can either be self-deluded or lying for social approval.


    No, we cannot know for sure who is saved and who isn't. But Scripture clearly gives us warnings and examples of people who have 'shipwrecked their faith' and thus I believe the state of their souls at that point is/was put into a precarious position to say the least.

    Louis:

    Well, I would look at it as the anonting of the LORD left him. You also have to remember that in those days the spirit was not poured out on everyone either. I would say that he was no longer fit to lead Israel thus the loss of anounting.

    Well, it says the Spirit of the Lord--but okay. What about the rest of the examples? Not just mine, but Missy's too.

    Michelle
     
  10. Julie

    Julie ONLY JESUS CHRIST SAVES

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    Old Testament salvation is/was not the same as New Testament salvation.
    A saved person now is in Christ Jesus.

    It is my opinion that the damnable doctrine that one can lose his salvation comes from a lack of Bible knowledge and study, and not rightly dividing the word of truth.

    Most people who are never sure that they are saved are poor witnesses for the Lord Jesus Christ cause they have no joy or hope to offer anyone.

    The Bible is set up in such a way that a man (or woman) who will not study or believe can hang themself in the scriptures, thus false doctrines come about.

    We will find out at The Judgement Seat of Christ(this is the one that I KNOW I will be at) or The Great White Throne of Judgement(for the lost) who was wrong or right, but alas, it will be to late then.
    Julie :pink:
     
  11. Miss Shelby

    Miss Shelby Legend

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    Julie,

    What do you make of 1 Timothy 18-20? Paul is encouraging Timothy to hold fast to his faith and fight the good fight lest he become like the two who had 'shipwrecked their faith' and had to be handed over to satan to be taught not to blaspheme.

    Michelle
     
  12. Julie

    Julie ONLY JESUS CHRIST SAVES

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    The Christian life is nota playground;it is a battleground. Timothy had been enlisted by God as a Christian soldier (2 Tim. 2:3-4). Paul reminds the young pastor of his ordination years ago. Apparently some of the prophets in the local church had been instructed by the Spirit to single Timothy out and ordain him for special service (see Acts 13:1-3; 1 Tim. 4:14; 2 Tim 1:6). "God would not call you without first equipping you!" encourages Paul. "The fact that His Spirit set His seal upon you is proof that God will see you through the battles ahead." (See Phil. 1:6) These promises of the Spirit were not mere words; they were weapons for the spiritual warfare which Timothy was engaged. He was to use the Word of God as a sharp two-edged sword to overcome Satan (Eph. 6:17; Heb. 4:12). It is not enough, however, to have correct doctrine, the Christian soldier must also have correct living (faith and a good conscience vs. 19). Paul uses the word conscience several times in his pastoral letters to Timothy and Titus (I Tim. 1:5,19; 3:9; 4:2; 2 Tim. 1:3; Titus 1:15).
    Paul names two men in Ephesus who would give Timothy trouble: Hymenaeus (2 Tim. 2:17) and Alexander (2 Tim. 4:14). These two men had apparently been members of the Ephesian church whom Paul had disciplined (see I Cor. 5:1-5) because of their blasphemy and probably false doctrine.
     
  13. Miss Shelby

    Miss Shelby Legend

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    Paul names two men in Ephesus who would give Timothy trouble: Hymenaeus (2 Tim. 2:17) and Alexander (2 Tim. 4:14). These two men had apparently been members of the Ephesian church whom Paul had disciplined (see I Cor. 5:1-5) because of their blasphemy and probably false doctrine.

    Did they have faith at one time and then reject it, as Paul says?


    Michelle
     
  14. Julie

    Julie ONLY JESUS CHRIST SAVES

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    Are you implying
    that they are/were saved? If so why.
    Julie
     
  15. Miss Shelby

    Miss Shelby Legend

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    Are you implying
    that they are/were saved? If so why.
    Julie


    I think they were believers and then became apostates because Paul said they had shipwrecked their faith.

    Michelle
     
  16. Julie

    Julie ONLY JESUS CHRIST SAVES

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    If my past sins are forgiven when I am baptized in water, and it is possible for me to "lose my salvation" and go to hell after being baptized, then wouldn't my best chance of going to heaven be to drown in the baptistry?!! - before I had a chance to sin so as to be lost again? If I wanted to be absolutely sure of heaven, isn't that my best opportunity?

    If as a Christian I can sin so as to "lose my salvation," just what sin or sins will place me in such danger? Is it possible to know at what point one has committed such a sin, and become lost again? Please be specific and give clear Bible references.

    If as a Christian I can fall and "lose my salvation," is it possible to regain it? If so, how? If God "takes away" my salvation, doesn't that make Him an "Indian giver"? How could I ever know for sure that I was saved or lost?

    After becoming a Christian, are there any sins that will put me beyond the "point of no return" so that I cannot regain salvation? What sin or sins will put me in such jeopardy, so that, after becoming a Christian, I would be doomed to hell without any recourse? Please be specific and give me clear Bible references.

    If I committed some sin -whether in thought, word, or deed, one minute before a fatal car crash - would I go to hell if I did not have time to repent of it? And, please, don't just say that it's up to God without giving me a specific Bible reference.
     
  17. Martin Luther

    Martin Luther Member

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    One of the most famous cases was when Michaelango was in a tavern...he was looking for a face for Judas. He sketched it, but something was bothering him. Finally he got up, and asked him. "Have you ever modeled for me, before."

    The guy looked up and said...slurred, "Ya, you drew me for one of your diciples."

    For Michaelango, who was no saint, it was an eye opener.
     
  18. GreenEyedLady

    GreenEyedLady My little Dinky Doo

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    Every one of these examples are people in the OT (where they could lose their salvation) or NT saved people that backslid. they are so far removed from context and put into the context of "salvation" that it's not funny.

    This is what the Bible says about NT salvation RIGHT NOW. (After the rapture, this will change too)
    2 Timothy 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: (a millennial reign) If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

    Romans 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

    John 3:16 says, "...everlasting life..." when is that "over"

    1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

    Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

    Ephesians 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. (He would have to have an amputation before I could lose my salvation!)

    We didn't do anything to get saved (he saved us) how could we DO anything to get unsaved (unsaved: make-believe word)?


    the OP has failed to "rightly divide the word of Truth" and Study. (II Tim. 2:15) Be careful that you don't fall into that number that are "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth." 2 Timothy 3:7

    Look at this verse and think about it carefully ...
    John 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God.
    GEL
     
  19. VOW

    VOW Moderator

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    This was a question of the Early Church! People would often delay Baptism until their deathbed, because of their insecurity. Church teachings were widely misunderstood (no fax machines! no email!) and it took time for all the congregation throughout the remnants of the Roman Empire to be properly instructed. And this is where the teaching of the Sacrament of Reconciliation comes from.

    People are going to screw up. That is their nature. Satan will make sure there is every available opportunity to cause a Christian to stray. Those of us who view salvation as a process, not an event, realize that we will often stumble on the Path to Eternity, but Jesus has given us the means to make ourselves right with God again.


    Peace be with you,
    ~VOW
     
  20. Miss Shelby

    Miss Shelby Legend

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    Have you ever had one of those days when your computer would keep kicking you off line....right in the middle of a long post? AAARRRGGG!

    1 Corinthians 10
    12So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall!


    Romans 11: 19-23
    19You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in." 20Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
    22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

    Hebrews 3:1;12
    12See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness. 14We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.

    Hebrews 10: 26-29
    26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

    2 Peter 2:20-22
    20If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. 21It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. 22Of them the proverbs are true: "A dog returns to its vomit,"[6] and, "A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud."

    I suppose I am taking all of these verses out of context, too?

    Michelle
     
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