Biblical, Enclosed Flat Earth and Firmament

[patrick jane]

You know I find it incredulous how Christians feel so free to make a statement, supported by no evidence, and happily call it truth. What evidence do you have that those astronauts were forced to lie.

As a christian to besmirch someones reputation based on no evidence - its simply ignorant and ... well it might be christian in your view to attack someones record, but its certainly unethical.

What these men and others that followed did, required extreme knowledge and skill, and bravery. Our world owes a debt of gratitude to the Russians and Americans [and now other agencies] who pioneered, and you feel so casual to call them all liars.

Christianity is fast exhausting my tolerances.

 

[patrick jane]

 

[AFrazier]

You can try refuting flat earth with science and technology etc, in my Conspiracy thread. This thread is for scriptures and Bible related posts, images and videos.

If you can show a globe or a ball shaped earth that flies millions of miles per hour through endless "outer space" while spinning over a thousand miles per hour and going around the sun, feel free.

No offense, but the Bible doesn't mention bacteria, single-celled organisms, air being a combination of oxygen and nitrogen, trees feeding via photosynthesis through their leaves, etc., etc., etc.

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. The Bible doesn't mention its spherical shape. That doesn't mean it isn't spherical. There are some things the Bible simply doesn't need to teach us relative to our moral existence, which is its primary focus.

And there are a few simple things that entirely destroy this flat earth nonsense. And it is nonsense.

1) Lunar eclipses are 100% predictable, right down to the minute they will start and end, the magnitude, whether full, partial, penumbral, and where in the sky they will occur, no matter what part of the earth you view it from, if it's visible from your location at all. The reason they are predictable with this level of accuracy is that we know the cause of lunar eclipses, the size and shape of the earth, moon, and sun. We know the distances of the moon and sun from the earth. We know the orbit and speed of the moon around the earth, as well as that of the earth around the sun in our heliocentric solar system.

Because we know these things, we can predict a lunar eclipse a thousand years in advance with no margin of error whatsoever.

The flat earth theory can't even explain such an occurrence in a credible way, much less predict one.

2) Stars and constellations are not all visible along the same points of latitude. What's visible from Maine is not visible in southern Chile. Given the model of the flat earth and the proposed motion of the sun above it, if the earth were flat, night and day would occur simultaneously in both places, and a flat surface would allow visibility of all the same stars. This is simply not the case.

3) Polar days and nights, which we know occur, would be impossible given the circumference of the sun's light footprint in the proposed flat earth model. The sun would have to corkscrew to the center, and then back out again, resulting in equatorial level temperatures in the north and south poles during the two phases of the polar nights and days. For the sun to be far enough away to allow a perpetual night in one pole or the other, its point of fullest intensity would have to be on the opposite pole. Any other model would fail to provide an equidistant sunrise and sunset. And equatorial temperatures at the poles would melt them in short order.

But a correct spherical model of the earth with a sun that is 92.96 million miles away allows equidistant sunrises and sunsets simultaneous to a polar day or night due to the tilted axis of our sphere, while maintaining the full intensity of the sun's light and heat at the known and established equator.

There are many more things that disprove a flat earth model beyond reproach. It's hogwash, and it shouldn't be taught. It takes away from the gospel, which is what we should be teaching and preaching.

 

[patrick jane]

So the numerous experiences of astronauts were delusions, the images and tracking of satellites are conspiracies...... Ok enough. I just shake my head how these types of issues arise with christian cohorts making Christianity look like a bunch of kooks.

I'm embarrassed FOR you. I'm sorry I embarrass you. But I won't shut up about it. I tried telling everyone in the OP and individually to keep the scriptures in this thread and the science, technology and conspiracy talk in the Conspiracy thread. Not everybody in the world thinks the same way about it and that's a good thing for everybody, including you.

I understand your position and I'm not trying to lie or call Christians evil. Some are, as you know. With the fear of harm or death to self and FAMILY possible it can make a person do or say anything. Christians are not immune to dishonesty and deception. I'm not here to make Christians "look bad" and as you also know, many "Christians" teach false doctrines, support homosexuality and abortion and I suppose I'm worse than that to you. Flat earth is not a doctrine and has NO effect on doctrine or salvation. The topic does not diminish a person's faith. I'm also not recruiting or making money. I get no benefits from doing this. I don't judge myself, neither should you. And I'm not judging anyone that deceives others.

 

[patrick jane]

No offense,

None taken.

 

[patrick jane]

No offense, but the Bible doesn't mention bacteria, single-celled organisms, air being a combination of oxygen and nitrogen, trees feeding via photosynthesis through their leaves, etc., etc., etc.

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. The Bible doesn't mention its spherical shape. That doesn't mean it isn't spherical. There are some things the Bible simply doesn't need to teach us relative to our moral existence, which is its primary focus.

And there are a few simple things that entirely destroy this flat earth nonsense. And it is nonsense.

1) Lunar eclipses are 100% predictable, right down to the minute they will start and end, the magnitude, whether full, partial, penumbral, and where in the sky they will occur, no matter what part of the earth you view it from, if it's visible from your location at all. The reason they are predictable with this level of accuracy is that we know the cause of lunar eclipses, the size and shape of the earth, moon, and sun. We know the distances of the moon and sun from the earth. We know the orbit and speed of the moon around the earth, as well as that of the earth around the sun in our heliocentric solar system.

Because we know these things, we can predict a lunar eclipse a thousand years in advance with no margin of error whatsoever.

The flat earth theory can't even explain such an occurrence in a credible way, much less predict one.

2) Stars and constellations are not all visible along the same points of latitude. What's visible from Maine is not visible in southern Chile. Given the model of the flat earth and the proposed motion of the sun above it, if the earth were flat, night and day would occur simultaneously in both places, and a flat surface would allow visibility of all the same stars. This is simply not the case.

3) Polar days and nights, which we know occur, would be impossible given the circumference of the sun's light footprint in the proposed flat earth model. The sun would have to corkscrew to the center, and then back out again, resulting in equatorial level temperatures in the north and south poles during the two phases of the polar nights and days. For the sun to be far enough away to allow a perpetual night in one pole or the other, its point of fullest intensity would have to be on the opposite pole. Any other model would fail to provide an equidistant sunrise and sunset. And equatorial temperatures at the poles would melt them in short order.

But a correct spherical model of the earth with a sun that is 92.96 million miles away allows equidistant sunrises and sunsets simultaneous to a polar day or night due to the tilted axis of our sphere, while maintaining the full intensity of the sun's light and heat at the known and established equator.

There are many more things that disprove a flat earth model beyond reproach. It's hogwash, and it shouldn't be taught. It takes away from the gospel, which is what we should be teaching and preaching.

Eclipses prove flat earth and your other "proofs" have been summarily debunked. Thanks anyway. They were predicting eclipse thousands of years ago based on a flat earth. Look it up.

 

[Zoii]

Thats it - thats your evidence for attempting to trash the reputation of Astronauts. So what are you saying - that all the past and current astronauts are rounded up and made to lie? The Chinese the Americans, Canadians, Japanese, Australians, Russians...all these Astronauts from different nations are blank faced liars based on - apparently no evidence other than some obtuse inference from a single you tube you posted. But you and others feel so very free to call them all liars.

Do you actually have any evidence what so ever. Any at all that all these existing astronauts/cosmonauts are actors and liars?

And what a disgraceful interview in that youtube. Zero evidence but conjecture after conjecture - Wow the patience of Buzz Aldrin to have been professionally insulted in that way.Zero evidence is provided to substantiate the interviewers allegations, just all inference.... as Buzz said - what a sad person he is and what a huge ego he has for the interviewer to attempt to propel himself into the public eye in this way.

Disgraceful

 

[patrick jane]

No offense, in both places, and a flat surface would allow visibility of all the same stars. This is simply not the case.

.

BTW, I didn't start this thread to be persuaded back to being on a flying spinning ball. I knew 100% that I was on a globe for nearly 50 years. This thread, as stated in the first post is for scripture and Bible related content. I have a Conspiracy thread to prove science and technology etc. I keep telling people, but I get sucked back in to the science here. I'm not avoiding it because I can answer every point you made but
I've been doing this for twelve hours today and only one or two people agreed with me. I'm answering several people now.

 

[DreamerOfTheHeart]

Where to begin. I haven't been here in a while but I've been a member since 2015. I will probably buy the Lifetime membership in a few days if the offer still stands. I knew a couple people here and wonder if they're still here. I hope this topic isn't taboo here because it DOES have Biblical support and quite a bit of it.

This POSSIBILITY of an enclosed flat earth and firmament was lunacy to me 3 weeks ago. I started a thread with the same title on a Christian site I've been at since 2014. The thread has 10,200 views in 3 weeks. I also have a thread called : Conspiracy - Are Some Theories Accurate? - It has 13,000 views in less than two months with most coming this month. I don't expect a huge response here but I feel the need to spread this and to allow adults, Christians and unbelievers alike to MAKE THEIR OWN DECISIONS, AND THINK FOR FOR YOURSELVES.

I'm only saying it's possible, NOT 100% THAT IT IS. I'm simply not 100% sure or convinced that I'm on a flying spinning ball anymore. I'm about 50/50 right now. With the growing scientific and physical evidence, our senses AND the Biblical support, I think this is a very compelling topic. Tell me what you think.

I am also not implying that believing this is required for salvation. I believe and trust the gospel of our salvation and I am saved and sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise. I am also NOT saying that if you DO believe in a globe earth that it's bad or evil. I will post scripture, memes and some scientific evidence but I will have another thread for scientific rebuttals. -

1 Corinthians 15:1-2 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV -

Ephesians 1:7-14 KJV -
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

All evidence is suspect. But, the world is round.

 

[patrick jane]

Thats it - thats your evidence for attempting to trash the reputation of Astronauts. So what are you saying - that all the past and current astronauts are rounded up and made to lie? The Chinese the Americans, Canadians, Japanese, Australians, Russians...all these Astronauts from different nations are blank faced liars based on - apparently no evidence other than some obtuse inference from a single you tube you posted. But you and others feel so very free to call them all liars.

Do you actually have any evidence what so ever. Any at all that all these existing astronauts/cosmonauts are actors and liars?

No. That's not it. I've been trying to answer questions since this morning and I'm answering several people at once for hours now. I can't answer every question and show every bit of evidence today.

I'll promise you that I won't accuse Christians or unbelievers of evil or corruption BUT ONLY THAT IT'S POSSIBLE. This topic doesn't seem to be for you and I don't want to argue or upset people. I can't prove anything, but evidence and behavior speak volumes. There are no pictures of earth from space showing curvature. They are ALL doctored in some way, photo shopped, CGI or artists' renderings. NASA says so. Many believe and evidence shows that we can't get out of low earth orbit.

Again, you don't want to hear this so we're both wasting our time with each other. Sorry I offended you.

 

[patrick jane]

All evidence is suspect. But, the world is round.

I can't prove it isn't. Yet round fits flat earth as well. If you think you live on a flying spinning ball then I can't change your mind. You'd have to actually seek out flat earth proof and confirmation. You don't seem the type to do that. Thanks for stoppin' by.

 

[The Times]

Let's play credibility stakes........

I'm only saying it's possible, NOT 100% THAT IT IS. I'm simply not 100% sure or convinced that I'm on a flying spinning ball anymore. I'm about 50/50 right now.

OK.

I knew 100% that I was on a globe for nearly 50 years.

OK.

Taking into consideration your one sided arguments, from your posts, I now gather that........

You are NOT 50/50 on the issue, right?

If still 50/50, please give your best arguments for a sphere. Thanks.

Also, for all the pictures you have given to support your arguments, please identify who the source is, who they worked for and the date of publication. Thanks.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Dear Patrick:

Have you ever been in a plane before?

This shows that you fan fly around the world.
https://www.airtreks.com/airfare/specials/

This shows that you can go to the Northern most point (within our planet).
North Pole Flights - Polar Explorers | Polar Expeditions

This shows that you can go to the Southern most point (within our planet).
Antarctica XXI - The World's First Air-Cruise to Antarctica
South Pole Flights | Polar Cruises

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Also, please see this article here:

10 easy ways you can tell for yourself that the Earth is not flat

 

[patrick jane]

Let's play credibility stakes........



OK.



OK.

Taking into consideration your one sided arguments, from your posts, I now gather that........

You are NOT 50/50 on the issue, right?

If still 50/50, please give your best arguments for a sphere. Thanks.

Also, for all the pictures you have given to support your arguments, please identify who the source is, who they worked for and the date of publication. Thanks.

Off the top I would have thought pictures at one time. The best evidence to me is that's what I've been told and the only version of earth I ever conceived of. I never once imagined a flat enclosed earth and firmament. I suppose I'm still excited about the thought of it and I'm probably biased. That's the only way this thread is possible.

I said 50/50 to not freak anybody out too soon but realitically now after almost a month of absorbing data, images and videos I'm 75/25 for a flat earth. We should trust our senses and not magical unseen forces acting on everything all the time. In my Conspiracy thread I'll get into who could be behind the deception and the connections.

It seems unreal but it's all possible, IMO. Btw, I'm not going to do that for images because I don't know how for one and anybody that does know how can check for themselves. They're all from Pinterest is all I know. The pictures of horizons are 100% real. Many of them I've seen on video. The others or more like observations and things that make you go hhmmmmmm.

 

[patrick jane]

Also, please see this article here:

10 easy ways you can tell for yourself that the Earth is not flat

They can't get far enough past the ice wall that surrounds earth in a circle. Nobody can circumnavigate north/south. Nobody can get to the "southernmost" point. The north pole is not the top of a ball, it's in the center of flat earth. Have you seen any of what I've posted on the ice wall? I'm not going to do it all over, it's on previous pages.

Nobody can go from the top of the globe to the bottom and then back up the other side to the top again. It can't be done. If you go south and keep going south you'll hit the ice wall. Please read the posts and images explaining that.

Your 10 ways to prove a globe are all nonsense and prove nothing. Gravity? Time Zones. Still possible on flat earth. If you only search for globe information, that's all you'll find.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

They can't get far enough past the ice wall that surrounds earth in a circle. Nobody can circumnavigate north/south. Nobody can get to the "southernmost" point. The north pole is not the top of a ball, it's in the center of flat earth. Have you seen any of what I've posted on the ice wall? I'm not going to do it all over, it's on previous pages.

Nobody can go from the top of the globe to the bottom and then back up the other side to the top again. It can't be done. If you go south and keep going south you'll hit the ice wall. Please read the posts and images explaining that.

Your 10 ways to prove a globe are all nonsense and prove nothing. Gravity? Time Zones. Still possible on flat earth. If you only search for globe information, that's all you'll find.

https://steemit.com/flatearth/@kerr...-antarctica-conspiracy-debunking-the-ice-wall

 

[patrick jane]

Attention Everyone interested in this topic. If you don't know anything about flat earth yet from my posts, images, videos and explanations the watch this or other videos. If you only try proving a globe, that's the only information you'll find.

I don't need to be convinced I'm on a flying spinning ball. Do some research so I don't have to answer the same questions over and over. Search for your own videos also and other flat earth confirmations and proofs, to be fair.

 

[Zoii]

They can't get far enough past the ice wall that surrounds earth in a circle. Nobody can circumnavigate north/south. Nobody can get to the "southernmost" point. The north pole is not the top of a ball, it's in the center of flat earth. Have you seen any of what I've posted on the ice wall? I'm not going to do it all over, it's on previous pages.

Nobody can go from the top of the globe to the bottom and then back up the other side to the top again. It can't be done. If you go south and keep going south you'll hit the ice wall. Please read the posts and images explaining that.

Your 10 ways to prove a globe are all nonsense and prove nothing. Gravity? Time Zones. Still possible on flat earth. If you only search for globe information, that's all you'll find.

Where's your evidence of an ice Wall if you say no-one can go there. All the satellite images... Fake? I've travelled by plane heading north to Iceland passing countries described by the globe. I see countless videos from space missions and satellites. You have zero photography or video. Zero physics, zero astronomy, zero astrophysics. Your welcome to believe what you like, but it distresses me that this view is almost solely a Christian view, which makes the lot of us seem illiterate uneducated, blind and superstitious.

 

[patrick jane]

https://steemit.com/flatearth/@kerr...-antarctica-conspiracy-debunking-the-ice-wall

That's a Fake image of the "continent" and the rest is just fluff. Here's an actual map with two Captains and two different ships i different years. Notice the routes and the miles recorded. One went 60,000 miles and the other went 70,000 miles. Unless they went "around" a "continent" SIX TIMES BY MISTAKE, WITHOUT REALIZING. Both of them had to do that and make that error 6 times each. Remember, this thread is for Biblical related content. My Conspiracy threads deals with your Fake science and technology. Also the Fake NASA "photos" - The bottom image is the Fake "continent" - The top two are flat earth. Read the story also.