To state that quotes from the FL LSME are 'uncorroborated' is illogical.
I didn't say the FL LSME was uncorroborated, I said your claims were.
I seem to recall an instance . . .
Adding to your uncorroborated claims, I see. If you can recall it, surely you can refind it and repost it instead of making even more unsubstantiated claims? As it stands, I'm not even certain what it is you're referring to.
Such evasions are what you do when you get cornered, again.
"Cornered?" You are obviously invested in this in some personal way, to characterize the give and take of debate as "cornering."
Well, you sure gave evidence of this one, when you kept trying to make the perfect ashlar out to be a rectangular solid, all the while "without knowing" that the real picture should be a picture of a cube.Researching is like putting a jigsaw puzzle together without knowing what the real picture should look like.
Funny thing, too, when every description of the object in Jacob's vision stated it was a ladder, how YOU kept tenaciously insisting on your "guesswork" that it was a "staircase."
So don't try to con readers with your high opinions of your "research," I don't think they buy it any more than I do. What we have seen on exhibition from you is NOT "research," it's pure double-D stubbornness masquerading as "research," refusing to admit to a single point even when the evidence before you doesn't lend your "guesses" even one iota of support.
Whether or not the 'guess' is true or not will be seen shortly.
I suppose, provided you are able to do what claim, and simply order and receive them. You claim to have simply "called up" the Grand Lodge of Florida and requested these booklets. You and I both know you just can't simply do that. Even if one IS a Mason, there are STILL all the hoops to jump through as regards protocol, identification, etc. I know, because I've been through the process. How did you manage to convince them you were a Mason, and therefore properly entitled to receive any such materials? I mean, at least with Mike, we found out how he went about it: he pretended to be someone from another religion, with questions submitted to SC GL as though he was interested in joining. Naturally, he tried to wiggle out of it, but with two different email versions of the contact, it was naturally suspect.
(Not that it wasn't already suspect. Over the years, I have had a number of contacts with Grand Lodge, and never once has the WM been the one to reply, it's always the Grand Secretary. I've had some contacts with other GL's too, and it's standard with them as well.. In fact, in some of the larger jurisdictions, it won't even be the Grand Secretary, there will be yet another person who acts as a buffer zone for the GS, just as the GS functions as one for the GM. My own take on it is, it's the same thing Mike has always done with his presentation of cited material, always over-aggrandizing the source to make it appear weightier than it might otherwise appear.)
Then you can complain, or apologize, depending on what I find out.
I don't have anything to "apologize" for. Not only do you not have any proper understanding of "research," you don't seem to have any concept of what it is to engage in debate. Points in debate are either proven or conceded, not "apologized for."
In the case of the NC materials, you tried to pull the same gimmick, trying to reframe the discussion to make it appear that I was making dogmatic proclamations, when all I was saying all along was, "sure, it sounds logical, but let's see your evidence first." And when the evidence came in, what did I do? Immediately, as I had already indicated I WOULD do as soon as someone had evidence and not mere claims, I conceded the point when the statement on the matter was produced--even though the evidence came from Mike, and was considered suspect, as anything automatically is from him.
Speaking of that incident, I found some comments by you recently on that matter to be curious. To be sure we get exactly what you said, so I do not make the same error you do in referring to past conversations with vague references like "I seem to recall . . .," here is what you stated, post #173 above:
You certainly do not learn from your mistakes. Visit the NC GL website and see the issue date for their LSME, which is older than the 1994 documents. It hasn't been reissued yet, though it still remains current.
That wasn't what I recalled being said by the comments Mike posted, so I took another look at the email he allegedly received from the NC GL:
The bold-highlighted sentence was the main reason I posted to Mike conceding the point. The reply says they had NOT USED the LSME for some years. So whatever they have been doing in Masonic education in those intervening years, has been by some other method than the LSME. Your claim falls on that point. Something cannot "remain" current which has been both out of print and out of use for a number of years. "Remain" necessarily entails that something first has to "BE" that which it is to "remain." The NC LSME was not in use, and thus could not be said to "remain" current. The last time it was "current" would be the last year in which it had been used.Email reply from the NC Grand Lodge sent December 13, 2010:
Hello Mike,
I apologize for not replying sooner but I have been out of the state or out of town since you emailed. As with all masonic questions the Code of the Grand Lodge would be followed. Also the 1969 LSME has not been used for some years now. Our grand lodge committee has been working on a new updated LSME to be adopted for use and should be available soon.
Sincerely,
William L. Dill
Past Grand Master
(emphasis added)
That makes it abundantly clear you are simply engaging in the same old antimasonic shape-shifting we've seen for years, offering first one argument, and then its antithesis, in the effort to make inconsistencies appear consistent. But with you it's more than that, it's more like, you can't let go of a single point, as if you fear your whole argument being a house of cards that can be dismantled by even the least point.
In that case, you were fighting tooth and nail to make the LSME 1969 version out NOT to be current; yet you flip-flop when the whim strikes you, and now start reversing what you were saying then, and trying to claim that the NC LSME booklet WAS current. As always, you engage in arguments of convenience. That's what inevitably happens with anyone who is more invested in the argument than they are in the truth.
So yeah, you can keep what passes for you as "research"--that is, "guesses" and jigsaw puzzles, bolstered by arguments of convenience that change direction with every passing wind (pardon the pun, but that's what your arguments are continually becoming like).
We just understand that its presence there is just a veneer to cover the fibreboard of Masonic thinking. And since the Bible can be replaced with any other part of the VSL
Just one more perfect example of the low level of discourse you seem to prefer: trying to label the biblical foundation of Masonic principles as a "veneer," while ignoring the fact of the veneer you keep plying with your un-Masonic term "part of the VSL."
Tell me, O great King of the Researchers: where did you do your research to come up with "part of the VSL," a term used NOWHERE in Masonry--or anywhere else--but by you?
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