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Featured Bible verses on Annihilation?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by DW1980, Apr 10, 2018.

  1. Halbhh

    Halbhh The wonder and awe of "all things" Supporter

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    Well, the rich man was actually in Hades, which we learn will *after* the Day of Judgement be thrown into the lake of fire.

    But not before. Not yet.

    It is an "eternal punishment" to be destroyed in the "second death" in the lake of fire.

    That's an eternal punishment.

    It fits everything that the devil and his angels are immortal already and that we are not unless given it.
     
  2. Halbhh

    Halbhh The wonder and awe of "all things" Supporter

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    On this question, you should be glad to see Romans chapter 2, verses 6 through 16, and in translations that are really clearly worded such as the NIV --

    Bible Gateway passage: Romans 2:6-16 - New International Version

    And along with that, we also later see Romans 4:15 and 5:13, helping us understand more that only those fully aware something is wrong are held to account for it. We are not held to account for what we do not understand or know on any level. Without Christ, we are judged on our actions as in Romans chapter 2, and that's a tough but also it's a fair standard, and we cannot claim to know the exact outcome for individual people outside the faith, nor even to guess accurately at what was in a person's heart in their last moments either! So, really, we have to admit we just don't know the fate of individuals, because we don't have the omniscience required to know. We only know the way that does work, not all things about any other outcomes.
     
  3. Halbhh

    Halbhh The wonder and awe of "all things" Supporter

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    But for how long? Will they perish there and be destroyed? We are not immortal like the devil and his angels unless we are given immortality. We don't have it already.
     
  4. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    Well I don't have time to post the proof texts but first you have to understand the distinction between the lake of fire and hell.. Hell is disembodied spirits while the lake of fire is where the body and soul are cast into the lake of fire. The fire never goes out so in that sense it's eternal punishment but body and soul are completely destroyed. Now I can get all but one verse late in Revelations to support that. I'll get to the proof texts after work.
     
  5. messianist

    messianist Well-Known Member Supporter

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    eternal
    ɪˈtəːn(ə)l,iːˈtəːn(ə)l/
    adjective
    1. 1.
      lasting or existing forever; without end.
     
  6. A_Thinker

    A_Thinker Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It is my opinion that we (believers) have, in large part, overblown the issue of God's punishment of the wicked.

    For example, few christians would deny that the depiction of hell as a place where Satan reigns, ... and demons torment people, ... is not a bit of an overblown fantasy (i.e. there's no scriptural support for such). I think that's because, when it comes to our fellows, ... we are more apt to be judgmental than gracious (as God is).

    I believe that that same vengefulness/judgementalness has tended to make our interpretation of what the scriptures do say, ... MORE judgemental than what God is truly intending.

    I'll give you another example of this ... I have heard countless preachers say that Jesus talked more about hell ... than He does about heaven. In this advent of electronic bibles, I eventually checked out that particular assertion, ... only to find that it was/is abjectly FALSE. Jesus talks about heaven (i.e. the fate of the saved) at least 3 times as much as he talks about hell (i.e. the fate of the lost). And that only makes sense ... as "He is a God of the LIVING, ... and not of the DEAD".

    I believe that this same BIAS has influenced our view of "hell". My own study on the subject finds that there are just a few passages which could be interpreted as support for "eternal conscious torment". And even those passages are not definitive.

    For instance ... "the fires of hell burn forever", "the worm dies not", ... but nowhere do the scriptures explicitly state that humans will burn forever in hell.

    My personal conclusion, at this point, is that the unsaved DIE, ... and after judgement (where there may be weeping and gnashing of teeth), ... are sentenced to eternal DEATH.
     
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  7. Halbhh

    Halbhh The wonder and awe of "all things" Supporter

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    Well, do you think it's true that being destroyed in the second death is eternal? Is an eternal punishment (irreversible)?
     
  8. messianist

    messianist Well-Known Member Supporter

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    As soon as
    How can it be irreversible?
     
  9. Halbhh

    Halbhh The wonder and awe of "all things" Supporter

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    Meaning once destroyed (after that finishes), there would then be nothing left, nothing to resurrect even, no remaining trace of any kind. That final end would be the eternal punishment for the non-immortal.
     
  10. messianist

    messianist Well-Known Member Supporter

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    nothing left of the physical body or the soul
     
  11. Halbhh

    Halbhh The wonder and awe of "all things" Supporter

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    Yes, that's that idea. I think it's not necessary to know which way is meant, but that is fitting all the verses, every one, without trying to make "destroy" and "second death" into metaphors. Any case, it's still a terrible outcome, and one we are going to not have to worry about, as we keep Christ in our hearts, and following Him Matthew 7:24-27.
     
  12. Sorn

    Sorn Active Member

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    People who have false teeth made of tough materials will unfortunately be gnashing for longer :(
     
  13. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    @DW1980 Hi, DW :) God bless you :)

    A number of evangelical people keep it pretty simple. They read that there is hell and they believe it is true, and this motivates them to reach to people so people do not go to hell.

    And then people accuse them of hating them.

    If you please, I have thought and prayed about things in the Bible, about this; and I have more than the simple explanation.

    Is there conscious suffering for a person who dies after he or she has lived in sin?

    Well . . . to start off > before a person dies, the person suffers if the person is living in sin. The person is hating oneself, in true reality, no need to blame God or anyone else.

    "Destruction and misery are in their ways;
    .And the way of peace they have not known."
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (Romans 3:16-17)

    In sinning, there is conscious "misery", even now before a person dies.

    Hebrews 2:14-15 tell us how people in sin are in slavery to "fear of death". This is conscious, and now.

    And we have >

    "But she who lives in pleasure is dead while she lives." (1 Timothy 5:6)

    So, you can be conscious, living in pleasure, but be "dead" > love-dead! In sin, people are conscious, yet dead. So, if you are dead after leaving this life, because of sin, you can still be conscious. Therefore, if the Bible says someone is "dead" after the person has left this life, this does not mean the person is no longer conscious.

    And a person in sin can love in a selfish and vain way, picking and choosing who is good enough to care about . . . very likely loving ones who the person can use. And Jesus warns, "if you love those who love you, what reward have you?" (in Matthew 5:46) So, while you love selfishly, you can be in truth love-dead, but very conscious so you can deeply suffer while living selfishly for pleasure.

    Also, Galatians 6:7-8 clearly says we all will reap what we have sown. We have sown things consciously. There will be so much more, after our bodies have died. Because then we will not longer have our bodily experience but only how we have been becoming spiritually.

    Deeply, we have been sowing so we become more and more alive in God's love and peace and joy; or, deeply, we have been developing more and more in love-dead misery and destruction.

    Frustration is love-dead. Lust for pleasure is love-dead, dominating, dictatorial. Greed is love-dead. Unforgiveness is love-dead.

    It is important, then, to invest in growing in God's love, in sharing with God and submission to how our Heavenly Father corrects us > Hebrews 12:4-11 > and personally rules each of us in our "hearts" >

    "And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

    Or else, one will reap the exact opposite, and you reap so much more than those tiny seeds you might have sowed. If a person has lived selfishly, the person is getting weaker and weaker so he or she can more and more give in to the deep suffering of nasty rotten cruel stuff.

    However, in this life the worldly person might use some pleasures to make the person feel something nicer; but after the person's nice body is gone, he or she will not be able to experience this pleasures of the body, but will only be able to feel one's deep spiritual horrible stuff of sin > of "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience" (in Ephesians 2:2).

    Therefore, it is so wise to now get rid of that nasty anti-love stuff >

    "Let all wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you." (Ephesians 4:31-32)

    Unforgiveness, then, is also anti-love. It is degrading, making someone worse and worse (2 Timothy 3:13).

    And "fear involves torment" (in 1 John 4:18). The torment of fear is conscious. If a person keeps giving in to and obeying fear and worry and anxiety and its "torment", the person is not investing in becoming perfected in God's love > 1 John 4:17-18. And then the person can go on to reap so much more horribleness of Satan, after the person leaves behind one's body > reaping so much more, than how the person has become at the time of one's death.

    And Jesus is the only way out of this. So, people are not loving anyone by saying there are other ways. And people are not loving wrong people by saying wrong people do not need Jesus on the cross and His forgiveness. It is discrimination to say that certain people do not need forgiveness. This is anti-love.

    And you can see how people are, emotionally, and how they are relating, while they live in the spirit > Ephesians 2:2 < which has them sympathizing with wrong people and even claiming wrong people do not need forgiveness.

    And charming is not the same as loving.

    So, a person is right to trust in Jesus for salvation, and then seek God for Himself and trust our Heavenly Father to give us real correction > Hebrews 12:4-11 < not our own make-believe efforts and struggling, but how God is almighty to succeed in truly correcting us. And learn how to submit to Him guiding us in His own peace (Colossians 3:15) while we learn how to relate in love as His children (Ephesians 4:1-3), while caring for and reaching to ones who do not know God and love.

    In His almighty power, this is easy for Him to do in us; His grace almighty does this in all His children. But this comes first with the real correction, and with growing.

    So, God is not just threatening people with hell. He is mainly about bringing people to Jesus and changing us to be like His Son Jesus. So, this is how much God our Father truly loves us, and is pleased to so fully share with us, that we are becoming like His own Son Jesus > Romans 8:29 < and there is no second-best blessing, but God loves us by wanting to have us share with Him like Jesus does > Jesus has claimed this in His own prayer according to His own faith > John 17:20-26.

    So, do not be fooled into supposing there is some second-best will which God has for us. He will have us share all with Him, or there is hell, the flaming sewer for the filth and stupid nonsense of Satan and his selfish spirit. Do not be a sewer bucket of this stuff which will go to the flaming sewer which burns with fire and brimstone!!

    God has given us His very own Son, and Jesus has so suffered and died for us so we can share all with Him and our Father >

    "He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?" (Romans 8:32)

    So, do not trust and worship any excuses for less. God is easily able to change us how we need. And have hope for ones who are refusing > love "hopes all things" (in 1 Corinthians 13:7).
     
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  14. ToBeLoved

    ToBeLoved Well-Known Member Supporter

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    How do
    those verses support annialation?
     
  15. Oldmantook

    Oldmantook Well-Known Member

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    I am sorry about your dad dying as an unbeliever. I do not subscribe to annihilation because I think it contradicts with God's stated purpose of redemption, namely that "For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross" (Col 1:19-20). The annihilist view is that those in the lake of fire are extinguished because they are unreconciled to Christ yet these verse in Colossians state that purpose of the atonement was to reconcile ALL to himself. This appears to be a contradiction as those extinguished still remain forever unreconciled.
    There is another view to which I subscribe which is the doctrine of apocatastasis - specifically Christian Universalism which acknowledges the existence of a literal lake of fire for unbelievers but not as a place of eternal torment, but rather as a temporary chastisement/punishment until such a sinner repents and is saved so "that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father" (Phil 2:10-11). This still gives you hope for your father but I won't elaborate more since this thread is meant to discuss annihilationism.
     
  16. Ron Gurley

    Ron Gurley What U See is What U Get!

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    God does not "punish" eternal spirits of Man.

    He separates them into two eternal spiritual realms.
    1. lake of fire
    2. heavenly realms

    God judges all immortal spirits. Eccl. 12

    Hebrews 9:27
    And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die (mortal Body/Soul combo) once and after this comes judgment, (of immortal spirit)
     
  17. dqhall

    dqhall Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You considered the existence of eternal torment in a supposed lake of fire. A body cannot remain conscious or alive in such conditions. You considered the destruction of body and soul that you call annihilation. There is a third option; that is paradise.

    It is written in the Bible, if I do a good thing, I will not lose my reward.
    Matthew 10:42 (WEB) Public Domain "Whoever gives one of these little ones just a cup of cold water to drink in the name of a disciple, most certainly I tell you he will in no way lose his reward."

    When I was lost in my sin, I suffered greatly. I had not reached hell and was already miserable for the choices I had made and my poor heath. After learning some of the wisdom of righteousness, I praised God for I had found a reward that was previously hidden from me.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2018
  18. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

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    Hey brother DW1980!

    I will be glad to help you out here, ok? There are many, many verses on this most precious subject, as this doctrine tells us about the great, awesome and wonderful love of God for us, demonstrating His tender mercies before all the inhabitants of the univese, fallen and unfallen.

    Well, that pastor, to be fair, and not unkind, is incorrect on the first part, but right upon the second. It is not a matter of "possible to read the Bible in a way that supported annihilation", but rather a simple plain reading from Genesis to Revelation will clearly show this. Now, admittedly, there are a handful, a very few, passages of scripture that need to be read carefully and prayerfully, as at the first they seem to go in another direction than the whole. However, when considered meticulously, they are seen to be in perfect agreement with all the texts from the beginning unto the last.

    Yes, I agree, we do not want a 'What I think ...', but rather an "It is written ...", and a "Thus saith the LORD ...", for as it is written:

    Isaiah 8:20 KJB - To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.​

    We can stick to just the Bible if you want, with as minimal an explanation as possible, where needed. Though, I must warn, my own definition of "minimal" can be quite expansive, compared to others definition of said word.

    The word "hell" in scripture has several components to it, whether in Hebrew H7585, "שׁאל / שׁאול", "she'ôl" or Koine Greek, G86, "[h]ᾅδης", "hadēs", and also Koine Greek G1067, "γέεννα", "geenna", and also linked Koine Greek G5020, "ταρταρόω", "tartaroō", however, it generally means the "pit", "grave", "lower parts of the earth", and linked with words like "darkness", "corruption", "death", "worms", "dust", "burnt", "fire", "torment", etc.

    It is not so much that "hell", or ever "hellfire", or even the "lake of fire", will not be a place of 'conscious torment', because it will be, but that it is not an eternal and endlessly suffering in conscious torment, but rather a punishment upon wickedness and sin, that brings the execution of the penalty, or the wages for sin, eternal death, called the "second death", "twice dead", etc, where those who perish in said fires, will come to a point of ceasing to exist, without any further opportunities at life, or resurrection. They will be gone forever, including satan and all his angels with him.

    I will demonstrate some of these, from the scripture [KJB], things in a moment.

    There are a few, as stated, passages that seem to teach an eternal, endless conscious torment, but when read prayerfully and slowly, and carefully, considering each word in its proper place, in comparison with the context of the whole, they will be seen to not teach such a doctrine, but rather the opposite. I am not asking anyone to take my word, but to take the "word" of God. Allow me to help you on this.

    You are right, God will always do the right thing, that's because He is love [1 John 4:8,16 KJB], and He always knows what is best, even for those who never accepted His offer in Christ Jesus.

    God is the judge of the heart of all persons, and He knows the light that all person have had in regards His offer in Christ Jesus.

    John 3:19 KJB - And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.​

    There will be those in Heaven who never knew the name of Jesus, because they had no opportunity in life to know:

    Zechariah 13:6 KJB - And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.​

    I am not looking to give any false hopes, but simply stating what scripture [KJB] says.

    According to scripture [KJB], no matter whether your father ultimately believed or did not ultimately believe, is dead, buried [assumably, if not cremated, buried at sea, etc] and in the grave, and is asleep in death, knowing nothing, feeling nothing, doing nothing, unconscious of any passage of time, until such time as his call by God to the resurrection*, either to the first great, being the resurrection of life [at the beginning of the 1,000 years] or to the second great, the resurrection of condemnation [at the end of the 1,000 years, Revelation 20; Isaiah 24 KJB, etc].

    [* as a side note, there will be a special resurrection of some wicked, and some righteous before the two great resurrections, but it does not apply to your father's case, more on that if you would like to know.]​

    Ok, onto the evidences, from scripture [KJB], which we can look at anything you would like, either presented or otherwise [what follows is non-exhaustive, but well representative, and not meant to be overwhelming, but at least a well-rounded presentation, and again I am open to looking at anything specific you would like to consider more closely]:

    Do the scriptures teach the Annihilation of the Lost in the 2nd Death?

    All darkness [shall be] hid in his secret places: a fire not blown shall consume him; it shall go ill with him that is left in his tabernacle. (Job 20:26)

    This [is] the portion of a wicked man from God, and the heritage appointed unto him by God. (Job 20:29)

    For what portion of God [is there] from above? and [what] inheritance of the Almighty from on high? (Job 31:2)

    [Is] not destruction to the wicked? and a strange [punishment] to the workers of iniquity? (Job 31:3)

    The wicked shall be turned into hell, [and] all the nations that forget God. (Psalms 9:17)

    Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins. (Psalms 7:9)

    Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: [this shall be] the portion of their cup. (Psalms 11:6)

    Thou shalt make them as a fiery oven in the time of thine anger: the LORD shall swallow them up in his wrath, and the fire shall devour them. (Psalms 21:9)

    For yet a little while, and the wicked [shall] not [be]: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it [shall] not [be]. (Psalms 37:10)

    But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD [shall be] as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away. (Psalms 37:20)

    For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off. (Psalms 37:28)

    But the transgressors shall be destroyed together: the end of the wicked shall be cut off. (Psalms 37:38)

    As smoke is driven away, [so] drive [them] away: as wax melteth before the fire, [so] let the wicked perish at the presence of God. (Psalms 68:2)

    Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous. (Psalms 69:28)

    For in the hand of the LORD [there is] a cup, and the wine is red; it is full of mixture; and he poureth out of the same: but the dregs thereof, all the wicked of the earth shall wring [them] out, [and] drink [them]. (Psalms 75:8)

    All the horns of the wicked also will I cut off; [but] the horns of the righteous shall be exalted. (Psalms 75:10)

    When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; [it is] that they shall be destroyed for ever: (Psalms 92:7)

    For, lo, thine enemies, O LORD, for, lo, thine enemies shall perish; all the workers of iniquity shall be scattered. (Psalms 92:9)

    Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more. Bless thou the LORD, O my soul. Praise ye the LORD. (Psalms 104:35)

    And a fire was kindled in their company; the flame burned up the wicked. (Psalms 106:18)

    The wicked shall see [it], and be grieved; he shall gnash with his teeth, and melt away: the desire of the wicked shall perish. (Psalms 112:10)

    The LORD preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy. (Psalms 145:20)

    But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it. (Proverbs 2:22)

    As the whirlwind passeth, so [is] the wicked no [more]: but the righteous [is] an everlasting foundation. (Proverbs 10:25)

    The hope of the righteous [shall be] gladness: but the expectation of the wicked shall perish. (Proverbs 10:28)

    The righteous shall never be removed: but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth. (Proverbs 10:30)

    The wicked are overthrown, and [are] not: but the house of the righteous shall stand. (Proverbs 12:7)

    The light of the righteous rejoiceth: but the lamp of the wicked shall be put out. (Proverbs 13:9)

    The house of the wicked shall be overthrown: but the tabernacle of the upright shall flourish. (Proverbs 14:11)

    For there shall be no reward to the evil [man]; the candle of the wicked shall be put out. (Proverbs 24:20)

    Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. (Ezekiel 18:4)

    The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. (Ezekiel 18:20)

    Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. (Isaiah 13:9)

    They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one [tree] in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD. (Isaiah 66:17)

    And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. (Isaiah 66:24)

    For while [they be] folden together [as] thorns, and while they are drunken [as] drunkards, they shall be devoured as stubble fully dry. (Nahum 1:10)

    For as ye have drunk upon my holy mountain, [so] shall all the heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been. (Obadiah 1:16)

    I will utterly consume all [things] from off the land, saith the LORD. (Zephaniah 1:2)

    I will consume man and beast; I will consume the fowls of the heaven, and the fishes of the sea, and the stumblingblocks with the wicked; and I will cut off man from off the land, saith the LORD. (Zephaniah 1:3)

    Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. (James 1:15)

    And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. (Matthew 10:28)

    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

    For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 6:23)

    But that which beareth thorns and briers [is] rejected, and [is] nigh unto cursing; whose end [is] to be burned. (Hebrews 6:8)

    But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. (2 Peter 3:10)

    And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. (Revelation 20:9)​

    Other passages can also be looked at individually, and such terms like "unquenchable", "eternal", "for ever and ever", "everlasting", etc and their Biblical use in terms of the righteous and the wicked in context.

    Begin to ask, where are the all of the wicked [including Satan and his angels] standing in Revelation 20:8-9? Do they [the wicked] live there eternally or are they rather not completely destroyed so that the New Heaven and the New Earth may be created there, wherein dwelleth righteousness, peace, no more tears, pain or sorrow or sin or satan?

    "...and there was found no place for them." Revelation 20:11;p​

    The text [Matthew 10:28] is saying, simply [a more thorough answer may come if needed/requested], that mankind cannot so kill/destroy the person to where they cannot be resurrected by God and so live again [therefore do not fear that temporary death], but says the text and Christ Jesus Himself, that God can so kill/destroy the person that they cannot be so resurrected ever again [a permanent death, and to fear/reverence Him, ie obey God rather than men].

    There is a clear and distinct difference in scripture given, between the 1st death ['sleep', 'no knowledge'] and 2nd death [annihilation, 'no more'].

    This text [Matthew 10:28] absolutely shows that the pagan and platonic philosophy of immortal tormenting sufferors [in any manner] is incorrect. God does not prolong the suffering of the wicked in their sin, hatred and misery, He justly, mercifully and even lovingly ends it forever.

    A More Thorough Answer:

    Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

    Matthew 10:28 και μη φοβηθητε απο των αποκτεινοντων το σωμα την δε ψυχην μη δυναμενων αποκτειναι φοβηθητε δε μαλλον τον δυναμενον και ψυχην και σωμα απολεσαι εν γεεννη

    Matthew 10:28 καὶ μὴ φοβηθῆτε ἀπὸ τῶν ἀποκτενόντων τὸ σῶμα, τὴν δὲ ψυχὴν μὴ δυναμένων ἀποκτεῖναι· φοβήθητε δὲ μᾶλλον τὸν δυνάμενον καὶ ψυχὴν καὶ σῶμα ἀπολέσαι ἐν γεέννῃ.

    Matthew 10:28 AndG2532 fearG5399 notG3361 (G575) them which killG615 theG3588 body,G4983 butG1161 are notG3361 ableG1410 to killG615 theG3588 soul:G5590 butG1161 ratherG3123 fearG5399 him which is ableG1410 to destroyG622 bothG2532 soulG5590 andG2532 bodyG4983 inG1722 hell.G1067

    Matthew 10:28 καιG2532 CONJ μηG3361 PRT-N φοβηθητεG5399 V-AOM-2P αποG575 PREP τωνG3588 T-GPM αποκτεινοντωνG615 V-PAP-GPM τοG3588 T-ASN σωμαG4983 N-ASN τηνG3588 T-ASF δεG1161 CONJ ψυχηνG5590 N-ASF μηG3361 PRT-N δυναμενωνG1410 V-PNP-GPM αποκτειναιG615 V-AAN φοβηθητεG5399 V-AOM-2P δεG1161 CONJ μαλλονG3123 ADV τονG3588 T-ASM δυναμενονG1410 V-PNP-ASM καιG2532 CONJ ψυχηνG5590 N-ASF καιG2532 CONJ σωμαG4983 N-ASN απολεσαιG622 V-AAN ενG1722 PREP γεεννηG1067 N-DSF​

    This very verse not only vindicates God in His infinite love, but also His word, His doctrine, that in the first death, all "sleep", from which we must be awakened (A) in a state of unawareness (B), and remain as such in the grave (C), until their respective resurrection (D), either the special (E), first great resurrection of the just/righteous/saints (F) which takes place when Jesus comes in Power and Glory (G), or in the second great resurrection of the unjust/unrighteous/wicked (H), which takes place, on earth (I), after the 1000 years (J), when Christ Jesus finally descend upon the mount of olives in the 3rd Advent with all of the saved and glorified saints and New Jerusalem (K), wherein satan, his devils and all of the wicked who have ever lived will face the executive judgment of the 2nd death (L), from which there is no returning, it is a total annihilation and removal of sin forever (M), but it also completely, absolutely, and most thankfully, eliminates any possibility of the satan [thus pagan] originated (N) doctrine of 'eternal tormented sufferers', 'immortal soul/spirit' theology and and a vindictive, sadistic, cruel and malevolent Jesus from being true.

    Why does it eliminate such possibility of 'eternal tormented sufferers' and erroneously dangerous 'immortal soul/spirit' theology? For the text in the latter half is most strikingly clear and decisive:

    "...fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

    God is able to, and will, 'destroy' both ['soul' + 'body'] in 'hell' (O), which mankind is unable to do. The doctrine of devils (P) that the wicked suffer eternally is now itself - destroyed, itself subject to the 2nd death. Jesus, Himself, "the resurrection and the life" (Q), says that we as His followers ought not to fear, or be afraid of, those people which are able to kill/destroy this current existence of ours, this mortal body/flesh (R), this animated "dust", "clay", "earthen" (S), of which we all are, for only God is immortal (T), for only in Him is Life, unborrowed, underived, eternal, self-existing (U), for those people cannot kill/destroy the soul, the 'nefesh' or 'psyche' (V), which is the total living and aware being made up of "dust" + "breath of life" of God (W), for these people can only kill/destroy in the manner which God has allowed which is the first death, and so those which are so killed/destroyed or die in such manner are, as Christ Jesus Himself, says, they which "sleepeth" (X) awaiting to be awakened in their respective resurrection by Him (Y), but says He, that we ought to rightly fear and reverence God (Z) who is not only able, but will so destroy all sin and sinners in the 2nd Death, which is to come, and from which there is no return, nor resurrection, nor life in any fashion.

    ...references to follow...

    A: [sleep, asleep, sleepeth] Deuteronomy 31:16; 2 Samuel 7:12; Job 3:13, 7:21, 14:12; 1 Kings 1:21, 2:10, 11:21,43, 14:20,31, 15:8,24, 16:6,28, 22:40,50; 2 Kings 8:24, 10:35, 13:9,13, 14:16,22,29, 15:7,22,38, 16:20, 20:21, 21:18, 24:6; 2 Chronicles 9:31, 12:16, 14:1, 16:13, 21:1, 26:2,23, 27:9, 28:27, 32:33, 33:20; Job 14:12; Psalms 13:3; Matthew 27:52; John 11:11-13; Acts 7:60, 13:36; 1 Corinthians 15:6,18,20,51; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-15; 2 Peter 3:4; [awake] Job 14:12; Psalms 17:15; Isaiah 26:19; Daniel 12:2; John 11:11-13; [grave/bed] Job 17:13; Psalms 139:8; Luke 17:34; [fathers and prophets are dead] John 6:49,58, 8:52,53; Acts 2:29,34, 13:36; Hebrews 11:4,13,16,40

    B: [knowing nothing] Genesis 27:4, 45:28; Ruth 1:17; Job 3:17-19, 7:8-10, 14:21, 21:32; 2 Kings 22:20; 2 Chronicles 34:28; Psalms 6:5, 28:1, 31:17, 88:4,10,11, 115:17, 143:7, 146:4; Ecclesiastes 9:4,5,6,10; Isaiah 14:11, 38:18; [reserved] 2 Peter 2:9; [He goes to prepare a place, so that when He comes again, 2nd Advent, He will raise us and receive us] John 14:2-3

    C: [grave/s, sepulchre/s, tomb/s, pit/s, hell [ie Hb: sheol; Gr: hades; grave]] Genesis 23:6, 35:20, 37:35, 44:29,31, 50:5; Exodus 14:11; Numbers 16:30, 19:16,18; Deuteronomy 34:6; Judges 8:32, 1 Samuel 2:6, 10:2; 2 Samuel 3:32, 4:10, 17:23, 19:37, 21:14, 22:6; 1 Kings 2:6,9, 13:22,30,31, 14:13; 2 Kings 9:28, 13:21, 21:26, 22:20, 23:6,16,17,30; 2 Chronicles 16:14, 21:20, 24:25, 28:27, 32:33, 34:4,28, 35:24; Nehemiah 2:3,5, 3:16; Job 3:17-19,22, 5:26, 7:8-10, 10:19, 11:8, 14:12-14,21, 17:1,13,16, 21:13,23-32, 24:19, 26:6, 30:24, 33:22; Psalms 5:9, 6:5, 18:5, 28:1, 30:3, 31:17, 35:7, 49:14,15, 55:15, 86:13, 88:3,4,5-12, 89:48, 94:13, 115:17, 116:3, 139:8, 141:7, 143:7; Proverbs 1:12, 5:5, 7:27, 9:18, 15:11,24, 23:14, 27:20, 30:16; Ecclesiastes 6:6, 9:10; Song of Songs [Solomon] 8:6; Isaiah 5:14, 14:9,11,15,19, 22:16, 28:15,18, 38:10,18, 53:9, 57:9, 65:4; Jeremiah 5:16, 8:1, 26:23, 20:17; Ezekiel 26:20, 31:15-17, 32:18,21-27, 37:12,13, 39:11; Hosea 13:14; Amos 9:2; Jonah 2:2 [<- figurative, typological]; Nahum 1:14; Habakkuk 2:5; Matthew 8:8, 11:23, 23:27,29, 27:52,53,60,61,64,66, 28:8; Mark 5:2,3,5, 6:29, 15:46, 16:2,3,5,8; Luke 8:27, 10:15, 11:47,48, 23:53,55, 24:1,2,9,12,22,24; John 5:28, 11:31,38, 12:17, 19:41,42, 20:1-4,6,8,11; Acts 2:29,34, 7:16, 13:29,36; Romans 3:13; 1 Corinthians 15:55; Revelation 1:18, 11:9, 20:13,14

    D: [resurrection/s] 1 Samuel 2:6; Job 14:12-14, 19:26; Psalms 16:10; Hosea 13:14; Matthew 22:23,28,30,31, 27:52,53 [special firstfruits resurrection; see also Isaiah 26:19; Ephesians 4:8]; Mark 12:18,23,25; Luke 14:14, 20:27,33,35,36; John 5:29, 6:25,28,29,39,40,44,54, 11:24,25; Acts 2:27,31, 4:2,33, 17:31,32, 23:6,8, 24:15,21; Romans 1:4, 6:5,8; 1 Corinthians 15:12,13,16,20,21,23,29,32,35,42,43,52-55; Ephesians 1:20, 4:8 [special firstfruits resurrection; see also Isaiah 26:19; Matthew 27:52,53]; Philippians 3:10,11; Colossians 3:3; 2 Timothy 2:18, 4:1; Hebrews 6:2, 11:35; 1 Peter 1:3, 3:21; Jude 1:9 [Moses resurrection; combine with Matthew 17; Mark 9; Luke 9; 2 Peter 1:16; Romans 5:14]; Revelation 1:5,18, 20:5,6,13; [translations] - Enoch [Genesis 5:24; Hebrews 11:5]; Elijah [2 Kings 2:1,11; Matthew 17:3; Mark 9:4; Luke 9:30,31] and some at Jesus's 2nd Advent/Coming [1 Thessalonians 4:13-17]; other special resurrections that took place - Elijah raises the Widow of Zarephath's [1 Kings 17:17-24]; Elijah raises the son of the Shunamite Woman [2 Kings 4:18-37]; A man and Elisha's Bones [2 Kings 13:20-21]; The Valley of Bones, the Resurrected Army [Ezekiel 37:1-14]; Jesus raises the Widow of Nain's Son [Luke 7:11-17]; Jesus raises Jairus's Daughter [Matthew 9:18,19,23-26; Mark 5:22-24,35-43; Luke 8:41-42,49-56]; Jesus raises Lazarus [John 11:1-47]; Peter raises Tabitha [Dorcas] [Acts 9:36-42]; Paul raises Eutychus [Acts 20:9-12]; Paul himself was not resurrected but was miraculously healed from stoning [Acts 14:19-20]; a special resurrection that will take place before the Great First Resurrection of the Righteous [Daniel 12:2,12; Matthew 26:64; Mark 14:62; Revelation 1:7, 14:13]; Jesus' Resurrection [Matthew 28:1-20; Mark 16:1-20; Luke 24:1-53; John 20:1-31]

    E: [a special resurrection, some righteous, some wicked - to witness Christ coming in Power in Glory to fulfill His Word] Daniel 12:1-3,12; Matthew 26:64; Mark 14:62; Revelation 1:7, 14:13

    F: [[first great] resurrection [of the saints, just, life, before/at start of the 1000 years when Christ Jesus returns in Power and Glory], raised] 1 Samuel 2:6; Job 14:12-14, 19:26; Hosea 13:14; Matthew 22:31; Mark 12:18,23,25; Luke 14:14, 20:35,36; John 5:29a, 6:25,28,29,39,40,44,54, 11:24,25; Acts 4:2, 17:31,32, 23:6, 24:15a,21; Romans 6:5,8, 8:11; 1 Corinthians 15:12,13,16,20,21,23,29,32,35,42,43,52-55; Philippians 3:10,11; Colossians 3:3; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; 2 Timothy 2:18, 4:1; Hebrews 6:2, 11:35; Revelation 20:5b,6; [All the Holy "Clouds" of Angels [the "reapers"] with Him] Psalms 68:17, 104:3; Isaiah 66:15; Matthew 13:39,49, 16:27, 24:30, 25:31,51, 26:64; Mark 8:38, 13:27; Luke 9:26, 21:27; Acts 1:9-11; 1 Thessalonians 3:13, 4:16-17; Hebrews 1:7; Revelation 1:7, 12:7

    G: [2nd Advent/Coming in Power and Glory, with all the holy angels, even unto the 3rd] Zechariah 14:1-7 [3rd]; Daniel 2:35,44,45, 7:14,22,27, 8:25, 12:1-3; Matthew 19:28, 24:30, 25:31; Mark 13:26; Luke 21:27; 1 Corinthians 15:43; 2 Thessalonians 1:9

    H: [[second great] resurrection [of the wicked, unjust, damnation, at the end/close of the 1000 years, when Christ Jesus and all of the Saints [then immortal] descend to Earth in New Jerusalem upon the Mount of Olives, and the Great White Throne Judgment takes place; Zechariah 14; Revelation 20]] John 5:29b; Acts 17:31, 24:15b; Revelation 20:5a

    I: [resurrection of unjust/damnation takes place on earth] Revelation 20:5,7-15

    J: [1000 years, the day of the Lord, the 7th millennium] Psalms 90:4; Isaiah 24:22; 2 Peter 3:8; Revelation 20:2,3,4,5,6,7; see also the Biblical pattern,

    Just as the week is 6 Days and the 7th of Rest [Genesis 2:2-3; Exodus 16:26, 20:8-11, 23:12, 31:15,17, 34:21, 35:2; Leviticus 23:3; Deuteronomy 5:12-15, Ezekiel 46:1; etc], so too is to be the 1000 years, a Sabbath of Rest in Heaven, for the Gospel has been preached in the world for 6000 years.

    Just as the feast of Unleaven Bread would last for 6 days and the 7th a solemn assembly; Deuteronomy 16:8

    Just as Joshua surrounded Jericho for 6 days [1 times] and on the 7th Day [7 times]; Joshua 6:3,4, 13-16

    Just as the Land itself was to be worked for 6 years and the 7th year it was to be left alone, so too is to be the 1000 years, a Sabbath of Rest in Heavenly Canaan - The Promised Land. [Exodus 23:10-11]

    Just as the slaves worked for 6 years, they were to be set free in the 7th year, so too is it to be in the 1000 years, a Sabbath of Rest in Heaven. [Exodus 21:2; Deuteronomy 15:12]

    Just as Moses waited at the base of the Mountain 6 days, and on the 7th he was then called up into the Mount, into the clouds, so too shall we be called upwards. [Exodus 24:16; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17]

    Just as Joash was hid in the Temple 6 years, while Athaliah [daughter of Jezebel] reigned, and in the 7th year he was crowned King and came out with an army to slay her, so too will CHRIST JESUS come as KING of Kings and LORD of Lords and HE shall reign, and slay the wicked. [2 Kings 1:3; 2 Chronicles 22:12]

    Just as JESUS and the three Disciples [Peter, James and John] after 6 days went up the Mountain of Transfiguration, they saw JESUS transfigured before them standing with Moses and Elijah [the Law and the Prophets, the Resurrected Dead and the Translated Living, types of those to be on Earth at the 2nd Advent; Matthew 17, Mark 9; Luke 9; 2 Peter 1:16].
    K: [New Jerusalem descends from Heaven with Christ and all Saints, after 1000 years] Zechariah 14:1-5; Revelation 3:12, 20:5-15, 21:2;

    L: [2nd death from which there is no life, nor resurrection, nor return - annihilation] Psalms 9:17; Matthew 5:22,29,30, 10:28, 18:9, 23:15,33; Mark 9:43,45,47; Luke 12:5; 2 Thessalonians 1:9; James 3:6; Revelation 2:11, 20:6,14, 21:8

    M: [sin/sinners gone forever, cut off, perished, no more, destroyed, passed away, etc] Job 20:26,29, 31:2-3; Psalms 7:9, 9:17, 11:6, 21:9, 37:10, 37:20, 37:28,38, 68:2, 69:28, 75:8,10, 92:7,9, 104:35, 106:18, 112:10, 145:20; Proverbs 2:22, 10:25,28,30, 12:7, 13:9, 14:11, 24:20; Ezekiel 18:4, 18:20; Isaiah 13:9, 25:8, 66:17,24; Nahum 1:10; Obadiah 1:16; Zephaniah 1:2-3; Malachi 4:1; Matthew 10:28; John 3:16; Romans 6:23; Hebrews 6:8; James 1:15; 2 Peter 3:10; Revelation 7:17, 20:9, 21:4

    John 3:16 says Perish or Everlasting Life [the wicked receive no such gift as everlasting life [there are no immortalized wicked anywhere and never will be], it is only a gift to the saved/just/righteous].

    Additionally, it is the Righteous who will eternally dwell with God, who is “a Spirit” [John 4:24 KJB], and “the Holy Spirit” the fullness of “fire” [Acts 2:3; Revelation 1:4; 4:5 KJB], who “baptize/s” with “fire” [Matthew 3:11; Mark 9:49; Luke 3:16 KJB], thus we will dwell with “everlasting burnings” [Isaiah 33:14 KJB], for God is a “consuming fire” [to sin and of “Love”] [Deuteronomy 4:24, 9:3; Hebrews 12:29; 1 John 4:8,16 KJB] and a “fire goeth before Him” [Psalms 97:3 KJB] which “shall devour before Him” [Psalms 50:3 KJB] and “he burned against Jacob like a flaming fire” [Lamentations 2:3 KJB], and for those whom He loves He is a “wall of fire round about” [Zechariah 2:5 KJB] and His “ministers a flame of fire” [Psalms 104:4; Hebrews 1:7 KJB] and His “tongue as a devouring fire” [Isaiah 30:7 KJB] His speech “fire” [2 Samuel 22:9; Psalms 18:8; Jeremiah 20:9; Acts 2:3; 2 Thessalonians 2:8 KJB], His “eyes … as a flame of fire” [Revelation 1:14, 2:18, 19:12 KJB], His “face as the sun” and His “feet a pillar of fire” [Matthew 17:2; 2 Corinthians 4:6; Revelation 1:15, 2:18, 10:1 KJB], for He is a “refiners fire” [Malachi 3:2 KJB] having a “throne of fire” [Psalms 89:36; Daniel 7:9; Ezekiel 1:26-28; Revelation 4:5 KJB], His Ten Commandments a “Fiery Law” [Deuteronomy 33:2; Ezekiel 28:14,16 KJB] and it is they who have the victory over sin who stand upon the sea of glass "mingled with fire" [Revelation 15:2 KJB], and will be as the burning bush which was not consumed [Exodus 3:3 KJB], for He is “Light”, even the Light of all.

    However, the lost are never immortal, for they are to be burnt up into smoke and ashes at the meeting out of Judgment, they are perished forever; Job 20:26,29, 31:2-3; Psalms 7:9, 9:17, 11:6, 21:9, 37:10, 37:20, 37:28,38, 68:2, 69:28, 75:8,10, 92:7,9, 104:35, 106:18, 112:10, 145:20; Proverbs 2:22, 10:25,28,30, 12:7, 13:9, 14:11, 24:20; Ezekiel 18:4, 18:20; Isaiah 13:9, 66:17,24; Nahum 1:10; Obadiah 1:16; Zephaniah 1:2-3; Matthew 10:28; John 3:16; Romans 6:23; Hebrews 6:8; James 1:15; 2 Peter 3:10; Revelation 20:9, 21:4 KJB.

    [Hebrew: machah מחה; meaning: to wipe out; blot out, obliterate; exterminated]
    [Hebrew: macah מסה; meaning: melt away, dissolve, liquefy, consumed]
    [Hebrew: muwg מוג; meaning: to melt, dissolve, faint, dissipate, flow away]
    [Hebrew: muwth מות; meaning: dead, death, kill, slain]
    [Hebrew: da`ak דעך; meaning: extinguished, to go out, put out, dry up, made extinct, quenched]
    [Hebrew: caphah ספה; meaning: to be swept away, destroyed, consumed]
    [Hebrew: shachath שחת; meaning: destroyed, corrupted, ruined, decayed]
    [Hebrew: parar פרר; meaning: break apart, frustrate, split, splinter to pieces, shatter, cracked up]
    [Hebrew: 'abad אבד; meaning: perished, vanished, destroyed, die, exterminated, blot out, put to death]
    [Hebrew: 'obed אבד; meaning: destruction, perish]
    [Hebrew: gava` גוע; meaning: to expire, die, death, breathe ones last, yield up the last breath]
    [Hebrew: cuwph סוף; meaning: to come to an end, to make an end, consume utterly, cause to cease, perish]
    [Hebrew: damah דמה; meaning: to cease, cause to cease, cut off, destroy, perish, to be undone]
    [Hebrew: charam חרם; meaning: to ban, destroy utterly and completely, exterminated, forfeited, divided, prohibited]
    [Hebrew: kalah כלה; meaning: consumed, determined, ended, finished, completely spent, at an end, perish, terminated, annihilation, complete destruction]
    [Hebrew: karath כרת; meaning: cut off, cut asunder, eliminate, kill, cut down]
    [Hebrew: kachad כחד; meaning: hide, conceal, cut down, make desolate, destroy, cut off, annihilate, efface]
    [Hebrew: bala` בלע; meaning: swallowed up, eaten up, to be ended]
    [Hebrew: balah בלה; meaning: to wear out, wear away, use up completely]
    [Hebrew: harac הרס; meaning: to tear down, break down, overthrow, destroy utterly]
    [Hebrew: show' שוא; meaning: devastated, ruined, laid to waste]
    [Hebrew: tsamath צמת; meaning: put an end to, cut off, destroy, exterminate, annihilate]
    [Hebrew: shamad שמד; meaning: destroyed, exterminate, annihilated, devastated]
    [Hebrew: naphal נפל; meaning: cast down, fail, waste away, overturn, knock down, fall]
    [Hebrew: 'akal אכל; meaning: to eat, devour, consume, to be wasted, destroyed]
    [Hebrew: chacal חסל; meaning: to consume, eaten up, bring to an end]
    [Hebrew: tamam תמם; meaning: to be complete, finished, at an end, consumed, exhausted]
    [Hebrew: 'oklah אכלה; meaning: object of devouring, consuming in judgment]
    [Hebrew: maqaq מקק; meaning: to decay, pine away, rot, fester, corrupt, dissolve]
    [Hebrew: guwz גוז; meaning: to pass over, pass away (of life), cut off]
    [Hebrew: yatsath יצת; meaning: to be burned up, to be made desolate, set on fire]
    [Hebrew: sĕrephah שרפה; meaning: burning, burn, burnt up throughly]

    [Greek: apollymi ἀπόλλυμι; meaning: to destroy, put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to ruin, render useless, kill, perish]
    [Greek: lyō λύω; meaning: loosed, undone, annul, dissolve, do away with, overthrow, break up]
    [Greek: katalyō καταλύω; meaning: dissolved, disunite, overthrow, render vain, bring to naught]
    [Greek: analiskō ἀναλίσκω; meaning: to expend, consume, destroy]
    [Greek: phtheirō φθείρω; meaning: to corrupt, to destroy, to perish, deprave]
    [Greek: diaphtheirō διαφθείρω; meaning: to corrupt, consume, destroy, kill, eat up, ruin]
    [Greek: aphanizō ἀφανίζω; meaning: to snatch away, take away, to make unseen, to destroy, consume, to make vanish]
    [Greek: phthora φθορά; meaning: corruption, destruction, perishing, decay]
    [Greek: kataphtheirō καταφθείρω; meaning: to corrupt, deprave, to destroy, perish]
    [Greek: ekkoptō ἐκκόπτω; meaning: hewn down, cut off or out]
    [Greek: apokoptō ἀποκόπτω; meaning: cut off, amputate]
    [Greek: nekros νεκρός; meaning: lifeless, dead, deceased, breathed ones last, inanimate, inactive]
    [Greek: nekroō νεκρόω; meaning: dead, put to death, to deprive of power, destroy the strength]
    [Greek: apothnēskō ἀποθνῄσκω; meaning: to die, perish, dry up, eternal death]
    [Greek: empi(m)prēmi ἐμπί(μ)πρημι; meaning: burn up, destroy by fire]
    [Greek: katakaiō κατακαίω; meaning: to burn up, consume by fire]

    Begin to ask, where are the all of the wicked [including Satan and his angels] standing in Revelation 20:8-9? Do they [the wicked] live there eternally or are they rather not completely destroyed so that the New Heaven and the New Earth may be created there, wherein dwelleth righteousness, peace, no more tears, pain or sorrow or sin or satan?

    "...and there was found no place for them." Revelation 20:11;p
    N: [the serpent/devil/satan/dragon said, "Ye shall not surely die..."] Genesis 3:4; and [God said "Ye shall surely die..."] Genesis 2:17, 27:4; Proverbs 19:16; Ezekiel 3:19, 18:4,20, 33:9; James 5:20; Revelation 16:3; and [God strictly warned and forbade necromancy, attempted communication, prayer to/with the 'dead', for He knew it was false, a deception of Satan to ensnare] Exodus 22:18, Deuteronomy 18:9-12; Isaiah 8:19; Luke 24:5; [Episode of Saul and the woman of Endor] 1 Samuel 28:7-25, 31:1-12; 2 Samuel 1:1-24; 1 Chronicles 10:1-13

    O: [Word definitions, from Strong's, but we can alwys look at how the Bible itself defines this word]:

    'Able': "δύναμαι"; "dynamai"; meaning "1) to be able, have power whether by virtue of one's own ability and resources, or of a state of mind, or through favourable circumstances, or by permission of law or custom; 2) to be able to do something; 3) to be capable, strong and powerful"

    'Kill': [also 'Destroy']: "ἀποκτείνω"; "apokteinō"; meaning: "1) to kill in any way whatever; a) to destroy, to allow to perish; 2) metaph. to extinguish, abolish"

    'Body': "σῶμα"; "sōma"; meaning "1) the body both of men or animals; a) a dead body or corpse; b) the living body; 1) of animals; 2) the bodies of planets and of stars (heavenly bodies); 3) is used of a (large or small) number of men closely united into one society, or family as it were; a social, ethical, mystical body; a) so in the NT of the church; 4) that which casts a shadow as distinguished from the shadow itself"

    'Soul': "ψυχή"; "psychē"; meaning "1) breath; a) the breath of life; 1) the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing; a) of animals; b) of men; b) life; c) that in which there is life; 1) a living being, a living soul; 2) the soul; a) the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.)"

    'Hell': "γέεννα"; "geenna"; meaning "1) Hell is the place of the future punishment call "Gehenna" or "Gehenna of fire". This was originally the valley of Hinnom, south of Jerusalem, where the filth and dead animals of the city were cast out and burned; a fit symbol of the wicked and their future destruction."
    P: [doctrines of devils] 1 Timothy 4:1

    Q: [Jesus is the resurrection and the life] John 11:25

    R: [man is mortal, mortality] Genesis 2:17; Job 4:17; Romans 6:12, 8:11; 1 Corinthians 15:53,54; 2 Corinthians 4:11, 5:4

    S: [dust, clay, earthen] Genesis 1:24,25, 2:7,19, 3:14,19, 18:27; Job 4:19, 7:21, 10:9, 13:12, 17:16, 20:11, 21:26, 30:19, 33:6, 34:15, 40:13; Psalms 22:15,29, 30:9, 103:14, 104:29; Ecclesiastes 3:20, 12:7; Isaiah 26:19, 29:16, 41:25, 45:9, 64:8; Jeremiah 18:4,6; Lamentations 4:2; Daniel 12:2; Malachi 4:3; John 9:6,11,14,15; Romans 9:21; 2 Corinthians 4:7; 2 Peter 2:6

    T: [God alone is inherently immortal] 1 Timothy 1:17, 6:14-16

    U: [God alone has inherent unborrowed life, original, eternal] John 1:4

    V: [nephesh / psychē] "The traditional Christian concept of an immaterial and immortal soul separate from the body is not found in pre-exilic Judaism, but evolved as a result of interaction with Persian and Hellenistic philosophy.[1] Accordingly, the Old Testament Hebrew word nephesh, although translated as "soul" in some older Bibles, actually has a meaning closer to "living being". Nephesh was rendered in the Greek Septuagint (a translation of the Old Testament dating from the centuries immediately prior to the modern era) as psyche (ψυχή), the Greek word for soul. The New Testament also uses the word psyche, but with the Hebrew meaning and not the Greek.[2]

    Genesis 2:7 gives the formula for creating a nephesh. According to this verse God did not make a body and put a soul into it like a letter into an envelope of dust; rather he formed man's body from the dust, then, by breathing divine breath into it, he made the body of dust live, i.e. the dust did not embody a soul, but it became a soul—a whole creature.[6] A dead body is not a nephesh. A living, conscious body is a nephesh.

    The only Hebrew word traditionally translated "soul" (nephesh) in English language Bibles refers to a living, breathing conscious body, rather than to an immortal soul.[3] John Goldingay writes, "The life of a human being came more directly from God, and it is also evident that when someone dies, the breath (rûaḥ, e.g., Ps 104:29) or the life (nepeš, e.g., Gen 35:18) disappears and returns to the God who is rûaḥ."[4]

    In the New Testament, the Greek word traditionally translated "soul" (psyche) has substantially the same meaning as the Hebrew, without reference to an immortal soul.[5]

    Man as Nephesh

    The LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground,
    and breathed into his nostrils the breath [neshemah] of life,
    and the man became a living being/soul [nephesh]
    Genesis 2:7

    Animals as Nephesh

    Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. ... And whatever the man called each living creature [nephesh], that was its name. .—Genesis 2:19" [Wikipedia; "Soul In The Bible"] - Soul in the Bible - Wikipedia

    "...The modern scholarly consensus is that the canonical teaching of the Old Testament made no reference to an "immortal soul" independent of the body.[174][175][176][177] This view is represented consistently in a wide range of scholarly reference works.[178][179][180][181][182][183]

    ...The mortalist disbelief in the existence of a naturally immortal soul,[1][5] is affirmed as biblical teaching by a range of standard scholarly Jewish and Christian sources. The Blackwell Encyclopedia of Modern Christian Thought (1995), says "There is no concept of an immortal soul in the Old Testament, nor does the New Testament ever call the human soul immortal.",[193] Harper's Bible Dictionary (1st ed. 1985), says that 'For a Hebrew, ‘soul’ indicated the unity of a human person; Hebrews were living bodies, they did not have bodies",[194] the New Bible Dictionary’ (3rd. ed. 1996), says "But to the Bible man is not a soul in a body but a body/soul unity",[195] the Encyclopedia of Judaism’ (2000), says "Scripture does not present even a rudimentarily developed theology of the soul",[196] the New Dictionary of Theology’ (2000), and "The notion of the soul as an independent force that animates human life but that can exist apart from the human body—either prior to conception and birth or subsequent to life and death—is the product only of later Judaism", [191] Eerdmans Dictionary of the Bible (2000), says "Far from referring simply to one aspect of a person, “soul” refers to the whole person",[197] the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia says "Possibly Jn. 6:33 also includes an allusion to the general life-giving function. This teaching rules out all ideas of an emanation of the soul.",[198] and "The soul and the body belong together, so that without either the one or the other there is no true man",[199] Eerdmans Bible Dictionary (1987), says "Indeed, the salvation of the “immortal soul” has sometimes been a commonplace in preaching, but it is fundamentally unbiblical.",[200] the Encyclopedia of Christianity (2003), says "The Hebrew Bible does not present the human soul (nepeš) or spirit (rûah) as an immortal substance, and for the most part it envisions the dead as ghosts in Sheol, the dark, sleepy underworld",[201] The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church (2005), says "there is practically no specific teaching on the subject in the Bible beyond an underlying assumption of some form of afterlife (see immortality)",[202] and the Zondervan Encyclopedia of the Bible (rev. ed. 2009), says "It is this essential soul-body oneness that provides the uniqueness of the biblical concept of the resurrection of the body as distinguished from the Greek idea of the immortality of the soul".[203][204]

    The mortalist disbelief in the existence of a naturally immortal soul,[1][5] is also affirmed as biblical teaching by various modern theologians,[205][206][207][208][209][210][211][212][213] and Hebblethwaite observes the doctrine is "not popular amongst Christian theologians or among Christian philosophers today".[214]" [Wikipedia; Immortality of the Soul; Modern Scholarship] - Christian mortalism - Wikipedia

    One might also consider [an additional reference]:

    What Happens When You Die? | Truth About Death

    Is Hell Real? | Hell Truth

    Ghosts: Who Are They? | Ghost Truth

    http://virginmarybook.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Mary-English.pdf

    http://www.pickle-publishing.com/papers/immortality.htm

    http://www.pickle-publishing.com/papers/soul-and-spirit.htm

    http://biblelight.net/luther-tyndale.htm

    Heresy

    The Truth About Death

    The Truth About Hell & Hellfire

    http://documents.adventistarchives.org/Books/CFOOF1966-V01.pdf

    http://documents.adventistarchives.org/Books/CFOOF1965-V02.pdf

    [Wikipedia; "Annihilationism"] - Annihilationism - Wikipedia

    [Wikipedia; "Conditional Immortality"] - Christian conditionalism - Wikipedia

    [Wikipedia; "Soul Death"] - Christian mortalism - Wikipedia

    [Wikipedia; "Christian Mortalism"] - Christian mortalism - Wikipedia

    Truth About Hell/Hellfire Mini -



    Truth About Death Mini-


    Testimony of an ex-Satanist, Roger Morneau:


    Testimonies of Godly men:

    “William Tyndale (1484-1536), English Bible translator and Martyr

    In 1530 responding to Sir Thomas More's objection to his belief that "all souls lie and sleep till doomsday" he vigorously replyed.

    "And ye, in putting them [the departed souls] in heaven, hell and purgatory, destroy the arguments wherewith Christ and Paul prove the resurection...And again, if the souls be in heaven, tell me why they be not in as good a case as the angels be ? And then what cause is there of the resurrection ?" - William Tyndale, An Answer to Sir Thomas More's Dialogue (Parker's 1850 reprint), bk.4, ch.4, pp.180,181 - An Answer to Sir Thomas More's Dialogue
    Tyndale went to the heart of the issue in pointing out the papacy's draft upon the teachings of "heathen philosophers" in seeking to establish its contention of innante immortality. Thus

    "The true faith puteth forth the resurrection, which we be warned to look for every hour. The heathen philosophers, denying that, did put that the souls did ever live. And the pope joineth the spiritual doctrine of Christ and the fleshy doctrine of philosophers together; things so contrary that they cannot agree, no more than the Spirit and the flesh do in a Christian man. And becuase the fleshy-minded pope consenteth unto heathen doctrine, therefore he corrupteth the Scripture to stablish it. If the soul be in heaven, tell me what cause is there for the resurrection?" - ibid., p.180
    In yet another section of the same treatise, dealing with the "invocation of saints," Tyndale uses the same reasoning, pointing out that the doctrine of departed saints being in heaven had not yet been introduced in Christ's day:

    "And when he [More] proveth that the saints be in heaven in glory with Christ already, saying, 'If God be their God, they be in heaven, for he is not the God of the dead;' there he stealeth away Christ's argument wherewith he proveth the resurrection: that Abraham and all saints would rise again, and not that their souls were in heaven; which doctrine was not yet in the world. And with that doctrine he taketh away the resurrection quite, and maketh Christ's argument of none effect." - ibid., p.118
    Tyndale presses his contention still further by showing the conflict of papal teaching with St. Paul, as he says is slightly sarcastic vein :

    " 'Nay Paul, thou art unlearned; go to Master More, and learn a new way. We be not most miserable, though we rise not again; for our souls go to heaven as soon as we be dead, and are there in as great joy as Christ that is risen again.' And I marvel that Paul had not conforted the Thessalonians with that doctrine, if he had wist it, that the souls of their dead had been in joy; as he did with the resurrection, that their dead should rise again. If the souls be in heaven, in as great glory as the angels, after your doctrine, shew me what should be of the resurrection?" - ibid. p.118
    John Frith (1503-33), associate of Tyndale and fellow martyr writes

    "Notwithstanding, let me grant it him that some are already in hell and some in heaven, which thing he shall never be able to prove by the Scriptures, yea, and which plainly destroy the resurrection, and taketh away the arguments wherewith Christ and Paul do prove that we shall rise;..and as touching this point where they rest, I dare be bold to say that they are in the hand of God." - An Answer to John Fisher, Bishop of Rochester
    Martin Luther (1493-1546) German reformer and Bible Translator.

    Regarding Luther's position Archdeacon Francis Blackburne of Cleveland; rector of Richmond states in his "Short Historical View of the Controversy Concerning an Intermediate State" of 1765 :

    "Luther espoused the doctrine of the sleep of the soul, upon a Scripture foundation, and then made use of it as a confutation of purgatory and saint worship, and continued in that belief to the last moment in his life." page 14.

    Martin Luther declared that it was the Pope, not the bible, who taught that "the soul is immortal" Martin Luther, Defence, proposition 27

    "Luther held that the soul died with the body, and that God would hereafter raise both the one and the other." Catholic Cardinal Du Perron, Historical View, p344
    Here are some sample Luther citations. The first one is from a 1573 translation.

    "Salomon judgeth that the dead are a sleepe, and feele nothing at all. For the dead lye there accompting neyther dayes nor yeares, but when they are awaked, they shall seeme to haue slept scarce one minute." - An Exposition of Salomon's Booke, called Ecclesiastes or the Preacher, 1573, folio 151v.

    "But we Christians, who have been redeemed from all this through the precious blood of God's Son, should train and accustom ourselves in faith to despise death and regard it as a deep, strong sweet sleep; to consider the coffin as nothing other than our Lord Jesus' bosom or Paradise, the grave as nothing other than a soft couch of ease or rest. As verily, before God, it truely is just this; for he testifies, John 11:11: Lazarus, our friend sleeps; Matthew 9:24: The maiden is not dead, she sleeps. Thus too, St. Paul in 1 Corinthians 15, removes from sight all hateful aspects of death as related to our mortal body and brings forward nothing but charming and joyful aspects of the promised life. He says there [vv.42ff]: It is sown in corruption and will rise in incorruption; it is sown in dishonour (that is, a hateful, shameful form) and will rise in glory; it is sown in weakness and will rise in strength; it is sown in natural body and will rise a spiritual body."- Christian Song Latin and German, for Use at Funerals," 1542, Works of Luther (1932), vol. 6, pp.287,288

    "Thus after death the soul goes to its bedchamber and to its peace, and while it is sleeping it does not realise its sleep, and God preserves indeed the awakening soul. God is able to awake Elijah, Moses, and others, and so control them, so that they will live. But how can that be ? That we do not know; we satisfy ourselves with the example of bodily sleep, and with what God says: it is a sleep, as rest, and a peace. He who sleeps naturally knows nothing of that which happens in his neighbor's house; and nevertheless he still is living, even though, contrary to the nature of life, he is unconscious in his sleep. Exactly the same will happen also in that life, but in another and a better way." -"Auslegung des ersten Buches Mose," in Schriften, vol.1, cols. 1759, 1760

    "...Protestants denied the Catholic purgatory. Luther taught mortality of the soul, comparing the sleep of a tired man after a day's work whose soul "sleeps not but is awake" ("non sic dormit, sed vigilat") and can "experience visions and the discourses of the angels and of God", with the sleep of the dead which experience nothing but still "live to God" ("coram Deo vivit").[4][5][6][7] ..."

    "..."so the soul after death enters its chamber and peace, and sleeping does not feel its sleep" (Commentary on Genesis – Enarrationes in Genesin, 1535–1545).[36]

    ... However, the best known advocate of soul sleep was Martin Luther (1483–1546).[95] In writing on Ecclesiastes, Luther says, “Salomon judgeth that the dead are a sleepe, and feele nothing at all. For the dead lye there accompting neyther dayes nor yeares, but when they are awoken, they shall seeme to have slept scarce one minute.[96]” - Intermediate state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    “As soon as thy eyes have closed shalt thou be woken, a thousand years shall be as if thou hadst slept but a little half hour. Just as at night we hear the clock strike and know not how long we have slept, so too, and how much more, are in death a thousand years soon past. Before a man should turn round, he is already a fair angel.[97]" - Christian mortalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    George Wishart (1500-1546), Greek scholar, friend of Latimer, tutor of John Knox, and martyr.

    Wishart was charged with attacking auricular confession, transubstatiation, extreme unction, holy water, invocation of saints and purgatory. Charge "XVI" was for promulgating the doctrine of the sleep of the soul.

    Charge "XVI": Thou false heretic has preached openly saying, that the soul of man shall sleep to the latter day of judgment and shall not obtain life immortal until that day." Blackburne, "Historical View", p.21.
    General Baptists In his "Institutes of Ecclesiastical History" chancellor of the University of Gottingen, Johann L. von Mosheim records that the "General Baptists" where spread in large numbers over many of the provinces of England As one article of faith they held

    "that the soul, between death and the resurrection at the last day, has neither pleasure nor pain, but is in a state of insensibility." - [see Page 697] Mosheim's Institutes of Ecclesiastical History, Ancient and Modern
    Samuel Richardson (1633-1658) Pastor, First Particular Baptist Church, of London wrote a discourse entitled :

    "A Discourse on the Torments of Hell : The Foundations and Pillars therof discover'd, serch'd, shaken, and remov'd. With Infallible Proofs that there is not to be a punishment after this Life, for any to endure that shall never end" 1658 [see also Page 70 herem right hand top Column] - A Baptist Bibliography
    John Milton (1608-1674), "Greatest of the Sacred Poets"; Latin secretary to Cromwell.

    "Inasmuch then as the whole man is uniformly said to consist of body, and soul (whatever may be the distinct provinces assigned to these divisions), I will show, that in death, first, the whole man, and secondly, each component part, suffers privation of life...The grave is the common guardian of all till the day of judgment.", "Treatise of Christian Doctine" Vol.1, ch. 13, [see Page 271 here] - The Prose Works of John Milton ...
    Dr A.A. Phelps, pastor Congregational Church, Rochester, New York, and editor of "The Bible Banner", in discussing "Is Man By Nature Immortal?" (pp.639-650), presents twelve counts against the doctrine of innate immortality:
    1. It has a bad history; it was introduced by the serpent in Eden, and springs from a heathen philosophy; it is not found in Jewish belief; is a compromise with Platonism; adopted and authenticated by the Church of Rome.

    2. It is at variance with the scriptural account of man's creation.

    3. It clashes with the Bible statement of man's fall.

    4. It is opposed to the scriptural doctrine of death.

    5. It is equally opposed to the physiological facts.

    6. Immortality is nowhere ascribed to man in his present state of existance.

    7. Immortality is a blessing to be sought, and not a birthright legacy.

    8. Inherent immortality is opposed to the scriptural doom of the wicked.

    9. It supersedes the necessity of the resurrection.

    10. It reduces the judgment scene to a solemn farce.

    11. It subverts the bible doctrine of Christ's second coming.

    12. It is a prolific source of error -Mohammedanism, Shakerism, Swedenborgianism, Spiritualism, Purgatory, Mariolatry, Universalism, Eternal-Tormentism.” - Heresy
    Modern era:

    "... annihilationists come from and are part of any number of different denominations. ...

    ... E. Earle Ellis was a professor of theology at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary (Southern Baptist Convention) until he fell asleep. Similarly, Dale Moody taught at Southern Baptist Seminary (also SBC). I bet you never thought conservative Southern Baptists would hold this view! Claude Mariottini, Old Testament professor at Northern Baptist Seminary (American Baptist Convention), is also an annihilationist, 7 ..." - Don’t Be Afraid to Rethink Hell: Why Other Beliefs Needn’t Get In Your Way

    "... I was a few weeks into the research when I read an article by a renown Southern Baptist New Testament scholar named E. Earle Ellis titled “The New Testament Teaching on Hell.” In it, he argued fairly and thoroughly that the New Testament advocates for an annihilation view of hell. This caught me off guard; I didn’t know he was going to argue for this. I read the article very casually, thinking it was going to be yet another defense of the traditional view. After all, Ellis is Southern Baptist. He’s evangelical. And he didn’t front his view at the beginning. He simply looked at all the relevant passages, exegeted them (with the exegetical methods I was taught in seminary), and then concluded that hell would not last forever; that is, its inhabitants would not experience everlasting conscious torment. And Ellis argued this from the text. ..." - Is Annihilation an Evangelical Option?
    E. Earle Ellis ; New Testament Teaching on Hell - Rethinking Hell

    W: [mankind is created as "dust" + "breath of life" of God, neither of which we own, and is no different in that respect than the beasts, thus in the first death; returning to dust which we are, "breath of life" of God returns to God, for it is His, not ours]
    Genesis 2:7, 6:17; Job 34:14,15; Psalms 104:29; Ecclesiastes 8:8, 12:7; Acts 17:25

    X: [Jesus, Himself says that the first death = "sleepeth"] Matthew 9:24; Mark 5:39; Luke 8:52; John 11:11

    Y: [God raises the dead] John 2:19, 6:39,44,54; Acts 26:8; 1 Corinthians 6:14; 2 Corinthians 4:14; Hebrews 11:19

    Z: [Fear/Reverence God] Ecclesiastes 12:13-14; Acts 5:29; Revelation 14:6-12
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2018
  19. Christian_Follower

    Christian_Follower http://seekingbiblicaltruth.weebly.com

    105
    +106
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    Here's a way to look at it that help put things in perspective

    There are opposites to everything when it comes to God

    Light - darkness
    Love - hate
    Holy - wicked
    Saved - lost
    Narrow way - broad way
    Sheep - goat
    Wheat - tares
    One way - many ways
    Eternally with God - Eternally separated from God

    Dont over think this and dont be fooled by those who say the wicked will cease to exist.. When we do that we call God a liar.

    Besides Christ spoke more on hell then heaven, i wonder why? (No i dont wonder, i know why)

    Millions and millions for all eternity will forever wish they had heeded the words they once heard

    Repent, and Believe and you shall be saved
     
  20. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

    +237
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    Protestant
    Single
    God is Eternal Life. To be eternally separated from God, is to be eternally without Life - ie dead and non-existant, forever. Don't be fooled by those who redefine the 2nd death to not mean 2nd death. Don't end up calling God a liar, when He clearly said, "surely die", therefore surely the opposite of Life is NOT life.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2018
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