Bible Q and Advice Needed with Scripture

[Joy Allen]

I have only seen my aunt in my 35 years of life attend church on a regular Sunday one time. She is a very hot-headed person. Everything makes her mad. In her world, she has it "going on," meaning that she is dead sexy. My sister is convinced that my grandmother saw something wrong with her (autism, but I am sure that's not it) as a child and built her up to think she was beautiful. She was beautiful in her 20s, but she was not the supermodel she thinks she is. She is in her 60s now and 10 years ago she thought she could get a job at Hooters, LOL. She's not ugly by any means. She seems to be really sexually motivated- you will see this soon.

She watches a certain pastor (and his family) on TV and won't go to actual church. I don't want to expose him or his church due to starting any drama here and because one of them has died. You can't talk to her about the Bible. I was told by a Biblical Counselor to not take biblical advice from my aunt after I shared this... When you talk to her about the bible she almost always goes back to The Garden of Eden. She will say that Eve had sex with Satan. I told her I don't know anything like that I have never seen that in the Bible (or the like). She told me I needed to watch her pastor on TV. I kindly told her that I just don't watch churches on TV. This made her mad. Later on she was muttering enough for me to hear her down the table because I don't want to watch her pastor. She told my mom "Adam and Eve both had sex Satan!" My mom said, "I have never heard that." She came back with, "Yes, I have seen it myself!" SEXUALLY MOTIVATED. She cannot stop talking about this. I try to never ever bring up The Bible, etc. around her because it always goes back to Eve having sex and Cain belonging to Satan as his son. She never talks about being saved or even following Christ. She seems to be very hung up on sex in The Bible. Then the rapture- she is hot over that too. She goes on and on and on about how the rapture is false doctrine. It's a made up word. I mean, I don't use rapture. I say "return of Christ." This guy has his own theology on the return. He brings up good, valid points. All together, I don't think he is completely wrong, but I am not sure if he is right on a lot of things. She is so excited she has these tidbits of The Bible to share with everyone and let them know that their pastors are so wrong and that she is so right because of her TV pastors. She even jumped all over my sister one day when she ran into her over at our grandfather's house. She ripped into her wanting to know if her church believed in the rapture. This was a new church for my sis and I think she said she was pretty sure they did and then she was really ugly to my sister over it. She got all over me to be careful about reading anything but the KJV because she found out I had a NKJV. Turns out she doesn't read KJV. She also has NKJV. I think this is how this pastor has her thinking about the Eve situation. In Genesis it says that Eve was "beguiled" and that means that she had sex with Satan. There is not any supporting evidence to back that up (that I can find) since beguiled actually just means to be deceived and we all know she was deceived.

I have checked my aunt's TV church out and the main pastor isn't very pleasant. My sister agrees. Anyone we talk to is like don't believe these people. My mom doesn't think he is right on every topic. I can remember hearing him on TV and feeling like something was off, not to listen to him. She would love to travel out and go to that church these pastors belong to. The church is 11.5 hours away from us. She would love to go there, but not attempt to find one like that in the area we live in. So with that she has never been baptized and doesn't seem like she ever will be since she can't go to any of our local churches and she doesn't want to fellowship at all. She doesn't like people. She has maybe 1 friend and it's because she is affiliated with her hobbies. She wrecks relationships at work, etc. When she needs references, she has to use my mom's friends. She is truly a miserable person and her husband drinks a lot and argues her about politics because they don't agree. I often wonder if the drinking problem is because he was always over her attitude. I was happy she started getting into the Bible, but she is a wreck. She could use prayers of course. My mom wants her to get medicated because she is afraid she will have a stroke. Aunt won't. Those meds will take away her boldness. There is nothing bold about any of her behavior. Not sure if this church is brainwash or what. Hope it's heart wash if ya know what I mean. She cannot go anywhere else. Only this TV church. I have researched this church and it's 50/50 on the opinion. It's labeled as an anti-biblical cult and a false prophet as the pastor on a few very popular sites.

If you can help here... please do!

-Prayers
-Anyone else believe like this? How do you find this if so in scripture?
-Anyone can point her towards sound doctrine, etc.
-How can we get her into church (she is literally a ticking bomb)
-How can we help her without her even getting mad?
-When she starts about the bible, what is a good place to come back with to point her back to Christ? Let's use the word!

Thanks yall

 

[d taylor]

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As for pointing to sound teaching this is an excellent group (Grace Evangelical Society) to show her. Grace Evangelical Society

They also have a Youtube Channel. Grace Evangelical Society

 

[Jamdoc]

I have only seen my aunt in my 35 years of life attend church on a regular Sunday one time. She is a very hot-headed person. Everything makes her mad. In her world, she has it "going on," meaning that she is dead sexy. My sister is convinced that my grandmother saw something wrong with her (autism, but I am sure that's not it) as a child and built her up to think she was beautiful. She was beautiful in her 20s, but she was not the supermodel she thinks she is. She is in her 60s now and 10 years ago she thought she could get a job at Hooters, LOL. She's not ugly by any means. She seems to be really sexually motivated- you will see this soon.

She watches a certain pastor (and his family) on TV and won't go to actual church. I don't want to expose him or his church due to starting any drama here and because one of them has died. You can't talk to her about the Bible. I was told by a Biblical Counselor to not take biblical advice from my aunt after I shared this... When you talk to her about the bible she almost always goes back to The Garden of Eden. She will say that Eve had sex with Satan. I told her I don't know anything like that I have never seen that in the Bible (or the like). She told me I needed to watch her pastor on TV. I kindly told her that I just don't watch churches on TV. This made her mad. Later on she was muttering enough for me to hear her down the table because I don't want to watch her pastor. She told my mom "Adam and Eve both had sex Satan!" My mom said, "I have never heard that." She came back with, "Yes, I have seen it myself!" SEXUALLY MOTIVATED. She cannot stop talking about this. I try to never ever bring up The Bible, etc. around her because it always goes back to Eve having sex and Cain belonging to Satan as his son. She never talks about being saved or even following Christ. She seems to be very hung up on sex in The Bible. Then the rapture- she is hot over that too. She goes on and on and on about how the rapture is false doctrine. It's a made up word. I mean, I don't use rapture. I say "return of Christ." This guy has his own theology on the return. He brings up good, valid points. All together, I don't think he is completely wrong, but I am not sure if he is right on a lot of things. She is so excited she has these tidbits of The Bible to share with everyone and let them know that their pastors are so wrong and that she is so right because of her TV pastors. She even jumped all over my sister one day when she ran into her over at our grandfather's house. She ripped into her wanting to know if her church believed in the rapture. This was a new church for my sis and I think she said she was pretty sure they did and then she was really ugly to my sister over it. She got all over me to be careful about reading anything but the KJV because she found out I had a NKJV. Turns out she doesn't read KJV. She also has NKJV. I think this is how this pastor has her thinking about the Eve situation. In Genesis it says that Eve was "beguiled" and that means that she had sex with Satan. There is not any supporting evidence to back that up (that I can find) since beguiled actually just means to be deceived and we all know she was deceived.

I have checked my aunt's TV church out and the main pastor isn't very pleasant. My sister agrees. Anyone we talk to is like don't believe these people. My mom doesn't think he is right on every topic. I can remember hearing him on TV and feeling like something was off, not to listen to him. She would love to travel out and go to that church these pastors belong to. The church is 11.5 hours away from us. She would love to go there, but not attempt to find one like that in the area we live in. So with that she has never been baptized and doesn't seem like she ever will be since she can't go to any of our local churches and she doesn't want to fellowship at all. She doesn't like people. She has maybe 1 friend and it's because she is affiliated with her hobbies. She wrecks relationships at work, etc. When she needs references, she has to use my mom's friends. She is truly a miserable person and her husband drinks a lot and argues her about politics because they don't agree. I often wonder if the drinking problem is because he was always over her attitude. I was happy she started getting into the Bible, but she is a wreck. She could use prayers of course. My mom wants her to get medicated because she is afraid she will have a stroke. Aunt won't. Those meds will take away her boldness. There is nothing bold about any of her behavior. Not sure if this church is brainwash or what. Hope it's heart wash if ya know what I mean. She cannot go anywhere else. Only this TV church. I have researched this church and it's 50/50 on the opinion. It's labeled as an anti-biblical cult and a false prophet as the pastor on a few very popular sites.

If you can help here... please do!

-Prayers
-Anyone else believe like this? How do you find this if so in scripture?
-Anyone can point her towards sound doctrine, etc.
-How can we get her into church (she is literally a ticking bomb)
-How can we help her without her even getting mad?
-When she starts about the bible, what is a good place to come back with to point her back to Christ? Let's use the word!

Thanks yall

Well, the problem here is that many teachers allegorize scripture, when scripture says one thing they take it to mean something else because it's "spiritual"

I have heard from some Catholics, now mind you it won't be all Catholics, probably not majority even, that the fruit itself was sex, they had allegorized it to not be a literal fruit of a literal tree but sex/carnal knowledge (even though God said to be fruitful and multiply), and so these people treat sex as kind of this filthy half sin, even between a married man and wife, if it's not specifically for procreation it's sin.

The really difficult part in this is once someone has "spiritualized" scripture into making it mean something other than the literal plain meaning, they're stuck on it. They likely will not be able to view the scripture in a plain sense meaning anymore, and if you have a closer to literal interpretation, not only will they reject it, but they will treat it as if they are more spiritual than you because they've adopted this "spiritual" meaning. They'll see themselves as better than you in other worlds.

As far as autism goes, medication really doesn't help it. Autism is not some chemical imbalance of neurotransmitters as some other psychiatric illnesses can be (and even that a lot of people have doubts over, many people simply do not believe in mental illnesses at all). Autism, is more a variance in how people's neurological pathways in their brain develop, basically as you grow up there are connections of neurons, paths that electrical signals follow, like different circuits on a printed circuit board on a computer. If you alter the flow of electrons to different components on the board, it does different things. The brain works likewise, in the first few years of life your brain builds "circuits" and sometimes those circuits are just wired different than other people's. It's essentially irreversible although you can learn new behaviors and coping mechanisms (learning new things = new circuits are created, but it doesn't necessarily overwrite the older ones). But it just results in autistic people processing information differently than another person, it's in varying degrees that's why it's a spectrum. I have mild high functioning autism myself.

Sometimes doctors will put a patient on certain other psychotropic drugs to control behaviors like acting out or sensory overload but I'm dubious as to whether those actually help or they just dope someone up.

as for rapture .. well, it's a non essential doctrine that is hotly debated and not really agreed upon. I wouldn't worry too much about that particular thing, Just not everyone is pre-trib (I'm not for one). So we just have to have a little bit of grace. When it comes to bible translations that's another "little bit of grace" issue. As long as it's a well received and adopted translation and agrees with other translations in what they mean it's fine. King James, New King James, NASB, ESV, there's a lot that people will use I prefer the ones that are word for word translations like those I listed there. As long as it's not something like "the Mirror" "translation" or something like that that is pretty much rejected as an actual bible translation. Some people will go with a paraphrase translation like the NLT, I don't prefer those myself but I haven't heard widespread heresy out of that one at least.
I USUALLY use the KJV myself, but if I need to reference and check an interpretation i will cross reference with the ESV and NASB, if all 3 agree, I'm usually satisfied. Some people are hardcore KJV only.. and that can be a problem, depending on WHY they are KJV only. If it's just a matter of "it's a tried and true trusted translation" okay.. sure but if there's some people who teach that in 1611 God gave direct revelation to the translators for that specific version and that version is inspired and all other translations are not.. I'd avoid that church/pastor.

 

[Joy Allen]

Well, the problem here is that many teachers allegorize scripture, when scripture says one thing they take it to mean something else because it's "spiritual"

I have heard from some Catholics, now mind you it won't be all Catholics, probably not majority even, that the fruit itself was sex, they had allegorized it to not be a literal fruit of a literal tree but sex/carnal knowledge (even though God said to be fruitful and multiply), and so these people treat sex as kind of this filthy half sin, even between a married man and wife, if it's not specifically for procreation it's sin.

The really difficult part in this is once someone has "spiritualized" scripture into making it mean something other than the literal plain meaning, they're stuck on it. They likely will not be able to view the scripture in a plain sense meaning anymore, and if you have a closer to literal interpretation, not only will they reject it, but they will treat it as if they are more spiritual than you because they've adopted this "spiritual" meaning. They'll see themselves as better than you in other worlds.

As far as autism goes, medication really doesn't help it. Autism is not some chemical imbalance of neurotransmitters as some other psychiatric illnesses can be (and even that a lot of people have doubts over, many people simply do not believe in mental illnesses at all). Autism, is more a variance in how people's neurological pathways in their brain develop, basically as you grow up there are connections of neurons, paths that electrical signals follow, like different circuits on a printed circuit board on a computer. If you alter the flow of electrons to different components on the board, it does different things. The brain works likewise, in the first few years of life your brain builds "circuits" and sometimes those circuits are just wired different than other people's. It's essentially irreversible although you can learn new behaviors and coping mechanisms (learning new things = new circuits are created, but it doesn't necessarily overwrite the older ones). But it just results in autistic people processing information differently than another person, it's in varying degrees that's why it's a spectrum. I have mild high functioning autism myself.

Sometimes doctors will put a patient on certain other psychotropic drugs to control behaviors like acting out or sensory overload but I'm dubious as to whether those actually help or they just dope someone up.

as for rapture .. well, it's a non essential doctrine that is hotly debated and not really agreed upon. I wouldn't worry too much about that particular thing, Just not everyone is pre-trib (I'm not for one). So we just have to have a little bit of grace. When it comes to bible translations that's another "little bit of grace" issue. As long as it's a well received and adopted translation and agrees with other translations in what they mean it's fine. King James, New King James, NASB, ESV, there's a lot that people will use I prefer the ones that are word for word translations like those I listed there. As long as it's not something like "the Mirror" "translation" or something like that that is pretty much rejected as an actual bible translation. Some people will go with a paraphrase translation like the NLT, I don't prefer those myself but I haven't heard widespread heresy out of that one at least.
I USUALLY use the KJV myself, but if I need to reference and check an interpretation i will cross reference with the ESV and NASB, if all 3 agree, I'm usually satisfied. Some people are hardcore KJV only.. and that can be a problem, depending on WHY they are KJV only. If it's just a matter of "it's a tried and true trusted translation" okay.. sure but if there's some people who teach that in 1611 God gave direct revelation to the translators for that specific version and that version is inspired and all other translations are not.. I'd avoid that church/pastor.

Ok, so you have my same thoughts. You are totally right about how they will view scripture after that "spiritual" sense. This pastor she watches is possibly oneness pentecostal. Yeah, I didn't think she was autistic. I have had plenty of students along the spectrum when I was working as a school counselor. All of those translations are the ones I use. I love word for word. I mainly use KJV, but I have been reading an ESV and a NLT (which is pretty much The Living Bible, but I think it's better). I feel so much power and the presence of God when reading the KJV. It's awesome. I used to go to a Baptist church that was kinda fundamentalist, but not what you think and the pastor told me to read a Bible that I understood. I thought it was The Living Bible, but is was a NCRV. Although I could follow along with it at church and it was comparable, there were parts that were not, so I don't exactly suggest that version. I wonder if the pastor she listens to is KJV only so that he can take the Old English language and make it mean something else since we don't exactly speak like that in today's English.

 

[Jamdoc]

Ok, so you have my same thoughts. You are totally right about how they will view scripture after that "spiritual" sense. This pastor she watches is possibly oneness pentecostal. Yeah, I didn't think she was autistic. I have had plenty of students along the spectrum when I was working as a school counselor. All of those translations are the ones I use. I love word for word. I mainly use KJV, but I have been reading an ESV and a NLT (which is pretty much The Living Bible, but I think it's better). I feel so much power and the presence of God when reading the KJV. It's awesome. I used to go to a Baptist church that was kinda fundamentalist, but not what you think and the pastor told me to read a Bible that I understood. I thought it was The Living Bible, but is was a NCRV. Although I could follow along with it at church and it was comparable, there were parts that were not, so I don't exactly suggest that version. I wonder if the pastor she listens to is KJV only so that he can take the Old English language and make it mean something else since we don't exactly speak like that in today's English.

That's the worst kind of manipulation in a Church, to use a language that you don't speak, not allow you to cross reference so that HE can tell you what it means (kinda like the Catholic Church insisting on Latin for a very long time, even though it was not a language people learned after the fall of the Roman Empire, thankfully they've moved away from that). It's a means of control, where Jesus and the Apostles taught us that we are all priests in our own right in Christ.

It sounds almost like a cult. Even though I will go to a KJV only Baptist Church, I make sure that the reason they're KJV only is just because it's a tried and true translation, not that it was especially Inspired. I can get some gripes some pastors will have with some modern translations as there are requirements in copyright law that your book has to be x% different than other versions for you to get a copyright and sell it. So you have to change 20% of the text's content in order to make it different enough, and some people don't trust that it's the same "Word of God" as an older translation like the KJV or Geneva Bible.
That all said, the Early Modern English is sometimes using words in ways we don't use them anymore, like the word "suffer" we have a different meaning than they did in the 17th century (where it meant "allow"). So I don't like really hardcore KJV only, I like "KJV preferred" where other versions are used to clear up meanings.. as long as those multiple versions can agree with each other across the board I'll accept that meaning.

But with this guy's allegorizing scripture with a non orthodox interpretation, insisting on an older translation so that he can tell people what it means.. that's a cult.

 

[Joy Allen]

That's the worst kind of manipulation in a Church, to use a language that you don't speak, not allow you to cross reference so that HE can tell you what it means (kinda like the Catholic Church insisting on Latin for a very long time, even though it was not a language people learned after the fall of the Roman Empire, thankfully they've moved away from that). It's a means of control, where Jesus and the Apostles taught us that we are all priests in our own right in Christ.

It sounds almost like a cult. Even though I will go to a KJV only Baptist Church, I make sure that the reason they're KJV only is just because it's a tried and true translation, not that it was especially Inspired. I can get some gripes some pastors will have with some modern translations as there are requirements in copyright law that your book has to be x% different than other versions for you to get a copyright and sell it. So you have to change 20% of the text's content in order to make it different enough, and some people don't trust that it's the same "Word of God" as an older translation like the KJV or Geneva Bible.
That all said, the Early Modern English is sometimes using words in ways we don't use them anymore, like the word "suffer" we have a different meaning than they did in the 17th century (where it meant "allow"). So I don't like really hardcore KJV only, I like "KJV preferred" where other versions are used to clear up meanings.. as long as those multiple versions can agree with each other across the board I'll accept that meaning.

But with this guy's allegorizing scripture with a non orthodox interpretation, insisting on an older translation so that he can tell people what it means.. that's a cult.

I'm afraid it's a cult. I just wonder if that is why he uses KJV because it is so easy to tell someone what it means to you. That's just some discernment. I just can't get into their studies. I think that is why my aunt likes it because it's a study, not preaching. One of my friends who is a pastor said that his wife was working at a Christian bookstore and a woman wanted a Bible saying that she wanted KJV because that is how Jesus talked LOL.

 

[Jamdoc]

I'm afraid it's a cult. I just wonder if that is why he uses KJV because it is so easy to tell someone what it means to you. That's just some discernment. I just can't get into their studies. I think that is why my aunt likes it because it's a study, not preaching. One of my friends who is a pastor said that his wife was working at a Christian bookstore and a woman wanted a Bible saying that she wanted KJV because that is how Jesus talked LOL.

Oof on that one, lol

Yeah unfortunately some people will go with the KJV because they believe it "sounds like the bible" and that's just because it's the most familiar version.
It's fine to adopt that version because it's so widely adopted and agreed upon that it's a good translation, but it should never be treated as the ONLY good translation.

I can get that a bible study would be more appealing than preaching or in my case it's way more appealing than singing. Being a bit autistic, I can struggle with large crowds especially with a bunch of voices in cacophony (because let's face it congregational singing isn't a smoothed out choir sound) because it becomes too many sound sources at once, it can be sensory overload. Then I myself don't like to sing because I hate the sound of my voice and the way it vibrates my chest if I try singing.
So I'm much more apt to want to go to bible study (because I love scripture and it's smaller groups) than worship services. I don't mind preaching as long as it's expository, focusing on scripture rather than the Pastor's own agenda.

Does your church have a day of bible study? That might be a way to get her in.