Bible and Koran

[johnnywong]

Agree.

Most discussions are not even between people who want to know the truth, and never find it. When one person is not caring about the truth, not knowing the truth, and does not seek the truth, they probably will not find the truth no matter how many times it is explained.
God says the natural man, no matter how many discussions he has, cannot grasp the truth... he must be made/become / spiritual in order to ever grasp it.

Agree. The most important part is a humble heart .When one start to deny himself and humble before the God.Then one can have the revelation from God about the truth.

 

[Erik Nelson]

if you read the Koran in chronological order. Especially according to the standard Egyptian chronological ordering of the chapters. Then it makes much more sense and is much more coherent, especially with a good set of foot notes.

There are a few crucial differences between Islam and Christianity. However, not nearly as many as the OP makes out. I would estimate that the overlap is something like 90 to 95%.

The chronologically earliest chapters of the Quran are basically Mohammed sounding much like John the Baptist preaching fire and Brimstone and the coming and approaching of final judgment.

 

[johnnywong]

The chronologically earliest chapters of the Quran are basically Mohammed sounding much like John the Baptist preaching fire and Brimstone and the coming and approaching of final judgment.

Thanks . This is very likely Mohammed copied and modified the essential parts for his use to establish a religion he planned to create which focus on the main theme of God gave up Jews , and chose Arabic as the new selected ones in the hidden agenda of getting more acceptance in the Arabic race.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Thanks . This is very likely Mohammed copied and modified the essential parts for his use to establish a religion he planned to create which focus on the main theme of God gave up Jews , and chose Arabic as the new selected ones in the hidden agenda of getting more acceptance in the Arabic race.

Well, that is quite an inference

Please do remember Christ's warning, attributing to Beelzebub what came from God is an unforgiveable sin (Matt 12 = Mark 3)

In theory, Muslims could be wrong about the Son of Man, and still be forgiven, but hypothetically Christians could be wrong about the inspiration of the Koran, and it would be unforgiveable everlastingly

So I would advise extreme caution in speaking about the Koran. If you truly don't feel any connection, or feel uncomfortable, just say nothing & change the subject -- like your grandparents always said, "if you ain't got nothin' nice to say, don't say anything at all"

There's really only one irreconcilable difference between the Koran & the Bible, namely whether or not the God ("Allah") the Father has equals (other top-tier divinities) beside His Throne in eternity beyond creation

Other than that, the Koran is mostly about Judgement Day described in fiery "John the Baptist like" terms completely compatible with 2 Peter 3:10 = Revelation 20:9

earth will end in fire, all will be destroyed, there ain't nothing the hu-mans of earth can or will do about it, it is a Final Decree of The One-and-Only Godlike Heavenly Power (who will evidently thusly remain the one-and-only)
wait, it's inbound, watch, it's nigh ("short range, for God anyway"), enjoy
The End​

My advice would be to say nothing about the Koran one way or another, unless the aim is to zero in on the one (seemingly) irreconcilable difference as to whether or not the God the Father "begot a son" and has equal "partners" (Word & Spirit) besides His Throne in eternity

 

[Daniel Marsh]

When you read side by side Bible and Koran,This is very easy to find the problems with Koran .
Why are there so many still believe in Koran.
While Bible has strong external evidence with 44 writers written in 1500 years and Koran only by one people without any witness and written in 26 years ?

question for our Muslim friends here, Is this a true statement?

"I have fabricated things against Allah and have imputed to him words which he has not spoken." (Al Tabari, The History of Al-Tabari, vol. 6, p.111)

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Do You Know These 7 Differences Between the… | Zondervan Academic

“And they said we have killed the Messiah Jesus son of Mary, the Messenger of God. They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, though it was made to appear like that to them; those that disagreed about him are full of doubt, with no knowledge to follow, only supposition: they certainly did not kill him. On the contrary, God raised him unto himself. God is almighty and wise.” (Quran 4:157-158)

The Quran And The Bible Have More In Common Than You Think

Similarities
1) Believe in one true God, not the concept of Trinity

Deuteronomy 6:4-5 “Hear O Israel: the Lord our God is one Lord, and the Lord your God is to be loved with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.”
Mark 12:28-30 …“Which law is the first of all?” Jesus said in answer, “The first is, Give ear, O Israel:The Lord our God is one Lord; and you are to have love for the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.”
Holy Quran 112:1-4 ‘Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begets not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him.
Holy Quran 2:163 ‘And your God is One God. There is no God but He, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.’

2) Confess that Jesus Christ (peace be upon him) was only a messenger, NOT GOD.

John 5:30 ‘I (Jesus) by myself can do nothing – as I hear I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my will, but the will of thy who has sent me’.
John 17:3 ‘This is eternal life, so that you may know there is one true God, and Jesus Christ, who Thou has sent.’
Mathew 19:16-17 ‘One of the persons approaches Jesus, and says ‘Good Master, what good things shall I do, that I shall attain eternal life.’ And Jesus said unto him, ‘Why do you call me good? For there is none good, except One, that is God – And if you want to enter life, keep the commandments’.
Holy Quran 4:157 ‘That they said (in boast), “We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah,” but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not.’

Differences
1) Christians believe that God rests and sleeps, but Muslims believe that God does not need a rest at all, neither does He need a sleep.

Psalm 44:23 “Why are you sleeping, O Lord? Awake! And come to our help, do not give us up forever.”
Holy Quran 50:38 ‘We created the heavens and the earth and all between them in Six Days, nor did any sense of weariness touch Us.’ (Holy Quran 2:255) ‘Allah. There is no god but He,-the Living, the Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him nor sleep…’

2) Christians believe that God can be seen, but Muslims believe that God cannot be seen at anytime and under any circumstances.

Genesis 32:30 And Jacob gave that place the name of Peniel, saying, “I have seen God face to face, and still I am living.”
Holy Quran 6:103 ‘Vision comprehends Him not, and He comprehends (all) vision; and He is the Knower of subtleties, the Aware.’

3) Muslims have great respect for their prophets and believe that their good manners are above suspicion, but prophets in the Bible were accused of great sins such as adultery, incest & blasphemy.

Genesis 19:31-36 ‘And the older daughter said to her sister, “Our father is old, and there is no man to be a husband to us in the natural way. Come, let us give our father much wine, and we will go into his bed, so that we may have offspring by our father.”
Holy Quran 21:74-75 ‘And (as for) Lot, We gave him wisdom and knowledge, and We delivered him from the town which wrought abominations; surely they were an evil people, transgressors; And We admitted him into Our mercy; surely he was of the good.’

4) Muslims are required to respect their parents & family members, but on the other hand, Jesus Christ in the Bible did not respect his own mother & encouraged his disciples to hate their fathers & mothers.

Matthew 12:47-50 ‘While he (Jesus) was still talking to the people, his mother and his brothers came, desiring to have talk with him. And one said to him, ‘See, your mother and your brothers are outside, desiring to have talk with you.’ But he in answer said to him who gave the news, “Who is my mother and who are my brothers?” And he put out his hand to his disciples and said, “See, my mother and my brothers! For whoever does the pleasure of my Father in heaven, he is my brother, and sister, and mother.”

Holy Quran 19:30-32 ‘Jesus said: Surely I am a servant of Allah; He has given me the Book and made me a prophet; And He has made me blessed wherever I may be, and He has enjoined on me prayer and poorrate so long as I live; And dutiful to my mother, and He has not made me insolent, unblessed…’

Holy Quran 46:15 ‘And We have enjoined on man doing of good to his parents; with trouble did his mother bear him and with trouble did she bring him forth; and the bearing of him and the weaning of him was thirty months…’

5) Women in Islam do have some rights over their husbands, but women in Christianity don’t have any rights, and they must only be silent.

1 Timothy 2:12-14 ‘In my opinion it is right for a woman not to be a teacher, or to have rule over a man, but she must be silent. For Adam was first formed, then Eve; And Adam was not taken by deceit, but the woman, being tricked, became a wrongdoer.’

Holy Quran 2:228 ‘…and their husbands have a better right to take them (women) back in the meanwhile if they wish for reconciliation; and they (women) have rights similar to those against them in a just manner…’

6) Wisdom & knowledge are emphasized in Islam, but not in Christianity.

Ecclesiastes 1:18 ‘Because in much wisdom is much grief, and increase of knowledge is increase of sorrow.’
Holy Quran 58:11 ‘…Allah will exalt those of you who believe, and those who are given knowledge, in high degrees; and Allah is Aware of what you do.’

7) In war, Islam commands Muslims not to kill the enemy’s women or children and to be kind & just to innocent people; but in the Bible, Jews are commanded to kill guiltless women and children during war.

1 Samuel 15:2-3 ‘The Lord of armies says, I will give punishment to Amalek for what he did to Israel, fighting against him on the way when Israel came out of Egypt. Go now and put Amalek to the sword, putting to the curse all they have, without mercy: put to death every man and woman, every child and baby at the breast, every ox and sheep, camel and ass.’

Holy Quran 5:32 ‘For this reason did We prescribe to the children of Israel that whoever slays a soul, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men; and whoever keeps it alive, it is as though he kept alive all men…’

8- In Islam, the Holy Quran tells us that the difference of languages is actually one of God’s miracles, but in Christianity, the Bible tells us that the difference is to confuse mankind due to God’s jealousy to them.

Genesis 11:1-7 ‘And all the earth had one language and one tongue… And the Lord came down to see the town and the tower which the children of men were building. And the Lord said, “See, they are all one people and have all one language; and this is only the start of what they may do: and now it will not be possible to keep them from any purpose of theirs. Come, let us go down and take away the sense of their language, so that they will not be able to make themselves clear to one another.”

Holy Quran 30:22 ‘And one of His signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth and the diversity of your languages and colours; most surely there are signs in this for the learned.’

*Source: Blogger
Similarities & Differences between Qur’an and Bible – The Pen Magazine

 

[Daniel Marsh]

The Koran vs. The Bible
A Comprehensive Listing of References to Jesus ('Isa) in the Qur'an - NAMB


"And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, 'O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, "Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?"' He will say, 'Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen,'" (Surah 5:116).
Did the author of the Quran understand the Trinity? | CARM.org
Errors in the Koran: Muslims mistakenly thought that Mary was the third member of the Christian trinity.
Trinity In Islam - Arabic Bible Outreach Ministry

 

[Daniel Marsh]

The Quran and the Holy Trinity: Islam’s Mistaken Views of Basic Christian Doctrines
The Quran Confirms the Trinity! Pt. 1
An Examination of the Parallel Passages of the Quranic Text: CONCILIATION OR CONFLICT

In contrast to the biblical portrait, the Quran goes out of its way to denounce the notion of Trinity:

O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not “Three”—Cease! (it is) better for you!—Allah is only One God. Far is it removed from His transcendant majesty that he should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as Defender. The Messiah will never scorn to be a slave unto Allah, nor will the favoured angels. Whoso scorneth His service and is proud, all such will He assemble unto Him (Surah 4:171-172, emp. added).

They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said: O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden Paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil‑doers there will be no helpers. They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of three; when there is no God save the One God. If they desist not from so saying a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve. Will they not rather turn unto Allah and seek forgiveness of Him? For Allah is Forgiving, Merciful (Surah 5:72-74, emp. added).
The Quran and the Trinity

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Jesus in the Quran

First, a consistent reading of the Qur’an itself undermines the charge that the biblical text has been corrupted. Listen to the words of Sura 10:94:

If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed to thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book [the Bible] from before thee; the truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord.

In this text, God tells Muhammad that if he has doubts about the revelations he has received, then he should go and consult the “People of the Book”—Jews and Christians—who have been reading the Bible for many years and who can verify the accuracy of what Muhammad has been told.3 This clearly implies that the Bible in circulation in Muhammad’s day was considered to contain the Word of God, to be an accurate and reliable text of God’s revelation. At least up to that point, the Bible had not been corrupted. But, the problem for the Muslim is that the Bible in existence then is precisely the Bible in existence today!

Second, Muslims insist that the Word of God cannot be changed or altered. In fact, such a claim lies behind much of their insistence that the Qur’an has escaped the kind of corruption they accuse the Bible of having (see Sura 6:34; 10:64). But, if the Word of God cannot be corrupted, then how is it that the Bible—which they claim was the Word of God in its original form—was corrupted? Why wasn’t it preserved? Indeed, if we take seriously the claim that the Word of God cannot be corrupted, then we have to conclude that the Bible was not in fact corrupted, and that the book which errs is not the current Bible, but the Qur’an.

Third, the charge of textual corruption is inconsistent with the selective quotation that Muslims make of the Bible in order to critique Christian doctrines. As we have seen, Muslims claim that the Bible’s original text is so corrupted that we cannot have any confidence in what it tells us about God, redemptive history, Jesus’ life and teaching, etc. However, if a biblical text seems to support something which they believe, they will not hesitate to quote it with confidence. For example, texts which underscore the humanity of Jesus, such as Luke 2:52 (which tells us that Jesus grew in wisdom and stature), they will cite as authentic and use it to argue against the deity of Christ. But, the Muslim cannot have his cake and eat it too. If the biblical text has been corrupted beyond repair, then how can he know that Luke 2:52 tells us the truth rather than John 8:58 where Jesus declares, “Before Abraham was born, I am”?

Fourth, despite the claims of Muslim apologists, the science of textual criticism has established the original text of the Bible beyond any reasonable doubt. Muslims are notorious for pointing out the fact that the many ancient manuscripts that we possess of the Old and New Testaments are filled with variant readings; that in all the Hebrew and Greek manuscripts that we possess, there are different readings at various places. This indicates quite clearly that those who copied the Bible by hand made mistakes as they did so. Of course, none of this is a secret. Most Christians are well aware of these facts. We believe that the original authors—the apostles and prophets—were inspired by God to write what they wrote, but we have never claimed that those who copied the biblical books were preserved entirely from error.

Nevertheless, Muslims who point to the transmissional errors in the biblical text assert that this is proof that the biblical text is corrupted beyond repair and therefore cannot be trusted as the Word of God. However, this charge indicates an ignorance on their part concerning the nature of textual criticism and the positive results it has achieved with regard to the biblical text.
The Qur’an vs The Bible

 

[Daniel Marsh]

The Quran vs. the New Testament: Conflicting Ethics

 

[Daniel Marsh]

question for Muslims, what translation of the bible do you read? and, what translation of the quran do you recommend and why?

 

[johnnywong]

Well, that is quite an inference

Please do remember Christ's warning, attributing to Beelzebub what came from God is an unforgiveable sin (Matt 12 = Mark 3)

In theory, Muslims could be wrong about the Son of Man, and still be forgiven, but hypothetically Christians could be wrong about the inspiration of the Koran, and it would be unforgiveable everlastingly

So I would advise extreme caution in speaking about the Koran. If you truly don't feel any connection, or feel uncomfortable, just say nothing & change the subject -- like your grandparents always said, "if you ain't got nothin' nice to say, don't say anything at all"

There's really only one irreconcilable difference between the Koran & the Bible, namely whether or not the God ("Allah") the Father has equals (other top-tier divinities) beside His Throne in eternity beyond creation

Other than that, the Koran is mostly about Judgement Day described in fiery "John the Baptist like" terms completely compatible with 2 Peter 3:10 = Revelation 20:9

earth will end in fire, all will be destroyed, there ain't nothing the hu-mans of earth can or will do about it, it is a Final Decree of The One-and-Only Godlike Heavenly Power (who will evidently thusly remain the one-and-only)
wait, it's inbound, watch, it's nigh ("short range, for God anyway"), enjoy
The End​

My advice would be to say nothing about the Koran one way or another, unless the aim is to zero in on the one (seemingly) irreconcilable difference as to whether or not the God the Father "begot a son" and has equal "partners" (Word & Spirit) besides His Throne in eternity

Good advice . But what I said is an easy deduction from the historic background of middle east. We have to be open-mined in thinking of all possibilities and don't fear the consequences.

 

[johnnywong]

question for our Muslim friends here, Is this a true statement?

"I have fabricated things against Allah and have imputed to him words which he has not spoken." (Al Tabari, The History of Al-Tabari, vol. 6, p.111)

Great explanation.
To me it is very simple , the old Testament agreeded by all Hebrew tells us about the coming Jesus . But not a single similar thing declares the coming of Mohammed.It is very strange and illogical.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Great explanation.
To me it is very simple , the old Testament agreeded by all Hebrew tells us about the coming Jesus . But not a single similar thing declares the coming of Mohammed.It is very strange and illogical.

I understand it is true that the Koran does claim & allege that earlier revelations predicted the coming of Muhammad

Perhaps the reference is, in the OT, to Deuteronomy 18:15-19, "YHWH thy God will raise up a prophet" like Moses; and in the NT to John 14:16, "another comforter" who would come

Think the Koran even goes so far as to claim that earlier revelations prophesied the coming of "Ahmed", a variant of the name "Muhammad"

If that were actually factually true, then either those references have been edited out of surviving Judeo-Christian scriptures, or were contained in (say) the original Hebrew-Aramaic gospel and not (accurately) translated into Greek, or some such

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Hi any suggestions on making this thread more interesting?

 

[Erik Nelson]

Non human non terrestrial otherworldly interventions from Heaven into Earth history are the most significant issue imaginable?

 

[johnnywong]

Hi any suggestions on making this thread more interesting?

What is your idea ?

Can we set up some forums just to compare Koran and Bible .

It is very interesting to me to see that it is very obvious

: for Koran was used to strengthen Arabic race with this book ; while Bible is full of sins of Hebrew race and a very bad propaganda for Jews. this make an outsider ( a Chinese with no historic burden of the struggle between the two races for thousands of years ) like me believe Bible is not by man's hand.

 

[Jesus_is_Saint]

Did Muhammad really receive revelation from angel Gabriel?

 

[johnnywong]

Probably not.

 

[Jesus_is_Saint]

Did devil masquerade as Gabriel to cheat mohamad ?