BF-GF relationships sinful?

[blackribbon]

"Living together" is fairly common even in the Christian church. I have even gone out with otherwise religious Roman Catholic adult men who actually assumed that sex was a normal part of dating...and asked me my stance on it on the first date. ???

 

[SnowyMacie]

I don't believe I've ever heard of rape or molestation (or any other form of sexual assault) being referred to as "having sex", especially not the unfortunate recipient of such a crime.

That's just... wow. That's way out there.

Obviously if you were forced against your will, then obviously you didn't commit sin in that situation. I'm not sure why that needed to be specified.

That's kinda like saying that someone is not guilty of suicide if they're walking down the street and someone else plugs them in the head with a .45. Obviously.

I've heard people, if I understood them correctly, say that men raped by men are still guilty of homosexuality. I'm not sure what they think of heterosexual rape, but probably the same disturbing thing.

 

[Deidre32]

Any relationship can become sinful, if it leads you to sin. Jesus spent time with all types of ''sinners,'' He just didn't partake of their sin. People can date, and not enter into ''sin'' by doing so. You simply can't know if you want a marriage commitment with someone without the dating part, unless we go back to arranged marriages.

 

[Goodbook]

Yea keep it for the honeymoon I say.
The thing with arranged marriages is..you would still go on dates anyway. Just with one person only. There's nothing wrong with dating if you do it right!! If you can't control yourself, don't date. If you can't learn to say no, don't date.

 

[blackribbon]

Yea keep it for the honeymoon I say.
The thing with arranged marriages is..you would still go on dates anyway. Just with one person only. There's nothing wrong with dating if you do it right!! If you can't control yourself, don't date. If you can't learn to say no, don't date.

My friend from Pakistan went on one 'date' with the man her parents arranged for her to marry. She had the right to say "no" but she also said her father said he would disown her if she did say "no". Six weeks after getting married, she moved with him to the US. She was 17 years old.

 

[Goodbook]

I have noticed, that some people just get all angsty when we discuss sin.

Make no mistake, we sin and ALL fall short of the glory of God. Yet Jesus came to free us from sin, and its not so we can keep sinning and say we now under grace so we can now sin even more! Lol.

 

[Xalith]

I have noticed, that some people just get all angsty when we discuss sin.

Make no mistake, we sin and ALL fall short of the glory of God. Yet Jesus came to free us from sin, and its not so we can keep sinning and say we now under grace so we can now sin even more! Lol.

"Free Grace" and similar teachings are so prevalent in today's society, that's why a lot of people take so much extra care to make sure that nobody gets the wrong idea.

But then some people, while trying to avoid "Free Grace" teaching go too far into "Gloom and Doom" and start preaching nothing but Hell and Eternal Fire.

What we really need is something in-between: a message of hope and love. Yes, we're hopeless and entirely lost without Him. Yes, He will forgive us. No, this does NOT give us a license to sin. Yes, we DO have hope in Him (and only Him) and through Him we can avoid the fires of Hell and be with Him in Heaven for Eternity.

 

[redblue22]

I'd say you are doing great if sharing a bucket of popcorn is your worst offense to keep you up at night.

 

[Goodbook]

Well Jesus came to give us GRACE and TRUTH. Sometimes the truth is hard to take. But we all have to face up to it. GRACE, i learned..is Gods Riches At Christs Expense.

When we think about just how much it cost Jesus...His very life, I do not want to go on sinning and crucify him all over again. And Grace gives us power not to sin.

Grace is also a divine action on the heart. If youve ever felt convicted about something you know it in your heart...its hard to describe the feeling but in the bible it talks about being 'cut to the heart' or a 'circumcised heart'.

How I think of it is it just breaks my heart. ive had my heart broken and I dont want to break someone elses anymore...its just the saddest feeling. But in most all cases its necessary to feel that pain so our hearts can become new again. And to keep our new hearts pure.

 

[hopesprings]

In my opinion, there should be no commitment until marriage is proposed and decided.

Oi, that would be a surprise then for both parties, wouldn't it?? Reminds me of the chicken-before-the-egg debate: marriage proposal pre-commitment or commitment pre-marriage proposal...? Which comes first... I'm just giving you a hard time.

The BF-GF relationship is just pointless, and is a false commitment.

I agree conditionally. My question is: what is the end goal of the relationship? If the relationship plan is simply to "have someone" and marriage isn't on the table, what's the point? Simply to have a "placeholder" (boyfriend/girlfriend) in one's life? That's playing with fire, imo, and potentially setting you (or your bf/gf) up for an emotional train wreck. I understand that everybody's different (and relationship expectations can be set out beforehand) but I'm leery of leading someone on if I'm not really intentional about my plans (and vice versa). As far as having "someone" to do stuff with, I have friends of the same sex that fulfill that need in my life (though obviously, they aren't that "special someone" ). A marriage relationship has...(all sorts of)benefits...that platonic friendship doesn't!

God never meant for a couple to not know where their relationship was headed.

You're speaking to the need for honesty about your intentions about the relationship (friendzone vs. marriage) if I understand correctly, not about what happens after marriage.

...there should be no exclusivity or conveyance of affection until engagement.

Hmmm, sounds like old-fashioned courtship to me. "No exclusivity" being code for spending time in groups rather than being alone for extended periods? Meh, I could be totally off-track here. Anyway, I do agree about at least being careful about how much affection is "conveyed"...there's nothing sexy about abstinence (haha) but it has its pluses.

 

[blackribbon]

What about older folks? Can we date for companionship instead of the goal to get married? Why is it sinful to want someone to go to the movies with or sit and discuss politics over a cup of coffee even if we don't intend to get married. Potential reasons for not getting married include health issues that we don't want to burden the other person with or we lose our insurance benefits if we marry...or our grown children will be a pain in the butt if we do get married and screw with their "inheritance" or maybe, we just know enough to know we enjoy the other person's company but would be driven insane if we had to live with them day in and day out. Or maybe sex no longer is a draw...health issues or maybe we didn't like it so much in the first place.

 

[hopesprings]

What about older folks? Can we date for companionship instead of the goal to get married? Why is it sinful to want someone to go to the movies with or sit and discuss politics over a cup of coffee even if we don't intend to get married. Potential reasons for not getting married include health issues that we don't want to burden the other person with or we lose our insurance benefits if we marry...or our grown children will be a pain in the butt if we do get married and screw with their "inheritance" or maybe, we just know enough to know we enjoy the other person's company but would be driven insane if we had to live with them day in and day out. Or maybe sex no longer is a draw...health issues or maybe we didn't like it so much in the first place.

What an interesting question...can older folks date for companionship instead of the goal to get married? Since that's a rhetorical question (as well as deeply personal) you'll have to decide for yourself, like I will for myself. I'm really sorry that you think it's somehow sinful to go to the movies or discuss politics over a cup of coffee without a marriage proposal. What a shame. That cuts out a lot of decent friendships, particularly when both people understand that it's friendship and no one is being led on. You're absolutely right (and preaching to the choir) about health reasons. Living with fibromyalgia makes life...different ...for me than for other people. Happily, it also doesn't make me ineligible for marriage. If I and a lovely man decide together that life with fibromyalgia would work for both of us, well, hooray! I really wouldn't recommend marrying anyone that would drive you insane if you had to live with them day in and day out. LOL

 

[blackribbon]

What an interesting question...can older folks date for companionship instead of the goal to get married? Since that's a rhetorical question (as well as deeply personal) you'll have to decide for yourself, like I will for myself. I'm really sorry that you think it's somehow sinful to go to the movies or discuss politics over a cup of coffee without a marriage proposal. What a shame. That cuts out a lot of decent friendships, particularly when both people understand that it's friendship and no one is being led on. You're absolutely right (and preaching to the choir) about health reasons. Living with fibromyalgia makes life...different ...for me than for other people. Happily, it also doesn't make me ineligible for marriage. If I and a lovely man decide together that life with fibromyalgia would work for both of us, well, hooray! I really wouldn't recommend marrying anyone that would drive you insane if you had to live with them day in and day out. LOL

I don't think it is a sin to date for companionship but the OP obviously does. Not all dating relationships are limited to 20somethings with their whole lives waiting to happen. I don't know that any medical issue makes someone "ineligible for marriage" but I don't know that I would be ready to marry someone with early stage dementia, or uncontrolled or noncompliant hypertension (because I could find myself suddenly the caregiver for a massive stroke victim instead of a vacation partner), or uncontrolled diabetes because of all the life limiting complications that can change ones life when someone didn't take care of their health when they were healthy enough to make a difference. If I don't marry them, then I can still be friends and enjoy their company without resenting that they might also be limiting my life with their poor health choices.

 

[hopesprings]

I agree. Dating life doesn't stop after one turns 20! Caring for someone with serious health issues would be hard. At least with fibromyalgia it's chronic vs. life-threatening and it's just a pain (literally! lol). It's something I'm working on managing. I think perhaps it's easier to disagree with friends than a spouse (one can always escape home to steam and think things over).

 

[CCHIPSS]

After all, they are not in the Bible, and are not part of the Biblical model for finding a marriage partner.

I believe that they have no place in Christian life.

In my opinion, there should be no commitment until marriage is proposed and decided. The BF-GF relationship is just pointless, and is a false commitment. It wastes time if you're not actively seeking a marriage partner. God never meant for a couple to not know where their relationship was headed.

Therefore, I believe that dating should begin with the man stating his intentions (getting to know the woman and assessing their compatibility for the purpose of marriage), so there will be no guessing games, and there should be no exclusivity or conveyance of affection until engagement.

This is definitely not a popular view, so I welcome any comments!

Short answer: BF-GF and dating are allowed. To say they are sinful is being legalistic.

1) You don't even need to be BF-GF to sin. You just need to look at any random man or woman lustfully and you already committed adultery in your heart. (Matthew 5:28) And we all did it, many many many times.

I will say I sin this way almost everyday, especially in the summer when a lot of ladies wear their mini skirts. Even girls in church loves to wear them. I am not saying the ladies can't wear them. I am saying my own sinful nature is obvious.

Sin is not just the external actions. Sin include everything in our hearts. Sin comes from the heart.

2) Anything not written directly in the bible as sinful is allowed by God. There are some grey half-written rules, such as abortion. (Depending on what you consider a human life, which isn't 100% clear. And you have to consider the safety of the mother. The husband is commended to love his wife more than his child, relatively.)

However in the BF-GF case, it is certainly allowed. You have to understand that according to the bible, arranged marriage was the only way. There was no courting. There was no dating. But that doesn't mean God is against courting or dating. Back then nearly every culture does arranged marriages. India, China, etc. And they were nowhere near being Christians.

Joshua Harris himself apologized for writing that book on courting.
http://www.sgmsurvivors.com/2011/06/27/despite-apology-josh-harris-releasing-boy-meets-girl-again/

3) Sex before marriage is sinful.

This should be obvious. So let's say a Christian man dates a Christian lady. They had sex. Then they broke up a bit later. She meets another Christian man. And she have to tell her new BF that story.

How would that new BF feel?

If you are that first Christian BF, why would you take something away from your fellow brother in Christ (her future Christian BF)?

Oh because you thought that she won't have a future BF? Why do you think that? What made you think you would never break up with her? You would be assuming too much.

Or maybe she is no longer a virgin when you start dating her. So that is ok now? You want to join that long list of her regrets? You want to just be another one black mark on her list?

Dating is allowed. But you must imagine that one day you might break up. And one day she will invite you for dinner with her and her new BF. What do you want him to say to you?

"Brother, thanks so much for keeping her pure for me! We are both so grateful!"

Or

"You are a sinner and false Christian! Thanks for nothing. You stole this precious thing from me!"