BEWARE OF UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION

[zoidar]

No, they don't give a "number", but name one Christian organization that believes even 'most' of the world is, or ever was, Christian. This doesn't even require 'fact in writing'. Simply 'thinking rationally' gives the obvious answer IMO.

But if you have a 'factual' reference disproving what I've said....SHOW ME. If not, then God got his "hinderparts" kicked by the devil he created who convinced most of God's humans (which Jesus died for) to believe his lie. Bad support for omniscience and a good plan IMO.

You seem upset, why? I gave a very open answer, not giving my own opinion how many I believe will be saved. Don't know what my post had to do with omniscience.

Do you mean if God doesn't save all men when Jesus died for all men, He isn't omniscient?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You seem upset, why? I gave a very open answer, not giving my own opinion how many I believe will be saved. Don't know what my post had to do with omniscience.

Simple really.

God , the one and only true Creator, Sovereign Almighty, agrees with you in His omniscient knowing - He sees you keep to His Word, even when tempted or opposed by the ones who reject Jesus .
They , the ones who reject Jesus, of course get upset and mad. (as written).

 

[Skidder]

You are still evading my question: If Death is destroyed or defeated, is anyone still dead? Please answer.

BTW, I see "perish" as something occuring in the here-and-now world. In the world to come, death is destroyed, and all are made alive, AS WRITTEN.

Sin is the problem... hell is real... God so loved... Jesus paid the price!

The penalty of sin was placed on the Son of God. The Holy Lamb of God was the only one qualified to take away our sins. Jesus Christ SUFFERED a BRUTAL DEATH on a LONELY HILL, shedding his own blood for our sins; He was buried and He rose again on the third day according to the scriptures. And because He paid the FULL price for our sins, salvation is a free gift by believing in the Lord Jesus Christ!

So what exactly are the consequences for choosing the ‘penalty of sin’ over God’s Son who suffered the cross? Here are just a few, and they are not good!

Isaiah 66:22-24
“And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”

Daniel 12:1-2
Every one who is found written in the book. And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Matthew 18:6-9
“If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the everlasting fire.

Matthew 25:41-46
41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’ “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Mark 9:43-48
If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched— where ‘Their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.’ And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched— where ‘Their worm does not die, And the fire is not quenched.’ And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire— 48 where ‘Their worm does not die, And the fire is not quenched.’

2 Thessalonians 1:8-10
in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

Jude 7
as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Jude 13
They are clouds without water, carried about by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots; 13 raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

Revelation 14:9-11
Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

Revelation 20:10, 14-15
The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever….
Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

How does one avoid such a terrible outcome for their sin? BY ACCEPTING the FREE GIFT of ETERNAL LIFE that is only offered by FAITH in the ONE WHO PAID THE FULL PRICE FOR OUR SINS! The Lamb who was slain is the ONLY answer for the penalty of sin! “He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.” -1 John 5:12

John 8:24
Therefore I said to you that YOU WILL DIE IN YOUR SINS; for if you do not believe that I am He, YOU WILL DIE IN YOUR SINS”

John 3:36
He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but THE WRATH OF GOD ABIDES ON HIM.”

 

[Lazarus Short]

Sin is the problem... hell is real... God so loved... Jesus paid the price!

The penalty of sin was placed on the Son of God. The Holy Lamb of God was the only one qualified to take away our sins. Jesus Christ SUFFERED a BRUTAL DEATH on a LONELY HILL, shedding his own blood for our sins; He was buried and He rose again on the third day according to the scriptures. And because He paid the FULL price for our sins, salvation is a free gift by believing in the Lord Jesus Christ!

So what exactly are the consequences for choosing the ‘penalty of sin’ over God’s Son who suffered the cross? Here are just a few, and they are not good!

Isaiah 66:22-24
“And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”

Daniel 12:1-2
Every one who is found written in the book. And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Matthew 18:6-9
“If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the everlasting fire.

Matthew 25:41-46
41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’ “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Mark 9:43-48
If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched— where ‘Their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.’ And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched— where ‘Their worm does not die, And the fire is not quenched.’ And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire— 48 where ‘Their worm does not die, And the fire is not quenched.’

2 Thessalonians 1:8-10
in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

Jude 7
as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Jude 13
They are clouds without water, carried about by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots; 13 raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

Revelation 14:9-11
Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

Revelation 20:10, 14-15
The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever….
Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

How does one avoid such a terrible outcome for their sin? BY ACCEPTING the FREE GIFT of ETERNAL LIFE that is only offered by FAITH in the ONE WHO PAID THE FULL PRICE FOR OUR SINS! The Lamb who was slain is the ONLY answer for the penalty of sin! “He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.” -1 John 5:12

John 8:24
Therefore I said to you that YOU WILL DIE IN YOUR SINS; for if you do not believe that I am He, YOU WILL DIE IN YOUR SINS”

John 3:36
He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but THE WRATH OF GOD ABIDES ON HIM.”

You are mostly correct. So close! Yes, the wicked and unrepentant suffer loss and go through the Lake of Fire. They certainly do not get a ticker-tape parade entry into the Kingdom! Remember that I only take issue with eternal, conscious torment, aka Hell. I see God's wrath and punishment as corrective, else why do Christians go around saying, "God loves you, and has a Wonderful Plan for your life!"? If they stop and think about how many they expect to end up in Hell, they should fall to their knees, throw up and then cry.

The Bible states God's purpose very clearly: That ALL may come to know the God Who made them, and that they bend the knee and confess with their mouth that Jesus the Christ is Lord of the whole Cosmos. If Hell is stuffed full, that cannot happen.

The Lake of Fire is God's last instrument for correction. Hell is a wicked insertion, for I have found that the word and the concept come over from paganism. Years ago, I found in a magazine a photo of a depiction of the Tibetan Buddhist Hell. It featured suffering sinners, hideous demons, and fire. The color red was prominent. The only thing differing from Christian Hell was artistic style.

So...

Baptists believe in Hell.

Roman Catholics believe in Hell.

Tibetan Buddhists believe in Hell.

Who would have thought...?

Where DID our ideas of Hell come from?

 

[FineLinen]

It is not fair!

I simply do not understand why God would even consider placing dirsty rotten sinners, who have done nothing but sin, in a position with us elite sinners, who have made the right choices to find God and follow Him.

It simply makes zero sense to my nearly righteous mind!

 

[FineLinen]

Murmur who dares!

Well, starlings dare and when they do, it is the most incredible sight! Actually, it is called a 'murmuration'.

 

[FineLinen]

This year we will not be singing Joy to the World.

Reason=

The author of over 750 hymns of the Christian Church, Isaac Watts, fully believed in the Restitution of all things. Away with him and his songs!

Joy to the World

 

[martymonster]

Matthew 7:13-14

So? That destruction is the best thing that can happen to you. That is the destruction of the old man!

 

[Skidder]

You are mostly correct. So close! Yes, the wicked and unrepentant suffer loss and go through the Lake of Fire. They certainly do not get a ticker-tape parade entry into the Kingdom! Remember that I only take issue with eternal, conscious torment, aka Hell. I see God's wrath and punishment as corrective, else why do Christians go around saying, "God loves you, and has a Wonderful Plan for your life!"? If they stop and think about how many they expect to end up in Hell, they should fall to their knees, throw up and then cry.

The Bible states God's purpose very clearly: That ALL may come to know the God Who made them, and that they bend the knee and confess with their mouth that Jesus the Christ is Lord of the whole Cosmos. If Hell is stuffed full, that cannot happen.

The Lake of Fire is God's last instrument for correction. Hell is a wicked insertion, for I have found that the word and the concept come over from paganism. Years ago, I found in a magazine a photo of a depiction of the Tibetan Buddhist Hell. It featured suffering sinners, hideous demons, and fire. The color red was prominent. The only thing differing from Christian Hell was artistic style.

So...

Baptists believe in Hell.

Roman Catholics believe in Hell.

Tibetan Buddhists believe in Hell.

Who would have thought...?

Where DID our ideas of Hell come from?

First of all, we can tell the world God loves them because He does. He offers everyone the free gift of life with no strings attached. This eternal life is offered to all because Christ died for the sins of the world. Like I said before, God is just, there will be no innocence in hell. The Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin, righteousness, and judgement, of sin because they do not believe in Him. He is relentless in this conviction so they are without excuse. I know all the excuses because I once used them myself before I FINALLY acknowledged them at His feet. I wanted to hold on to my sin, and that is what I did. Sad, I know, but most will continue embrace these same excuses to why they reject Christ, but it's really their pride and love for their sin that stops them from reaching for the hand of FORGIVENESS... The Lord Jesus Christ. God will not be mocked, if they don't want to give up their sin they will not choose the one who died for those sins. Those who defend UR will often present these people as totally "innocent", like the Holy Spirit isn't convicting them constantly of their sin, that somehow God is throwing "innocence" in hell. NO, the only way to end up in hell is by choosing your sin over the one WHO DIED FOR THOSE SINS. And like I said before... this forgiveness is only IN CHRIST, not outside of Christ. There is no "sin free zone" outside of Christ. Only IN CHRIST do we have redemption through His blood the forgiveness of sins.

Don’t be deceived, there are only two standings before God, therefore only TWO REALMS: Saved from sin or unsaved, redeemed or unredeemed, justified or unjustified, lost or found, darkness or light, chains or freedom, death or life, Old Covenant or New Covenant, law or grace, unwashed or washed, apart from Christ or in Christ, kingdom of darkness or Kingdom of the Son. There is no third, fourth, or fifth realm or standing before God. But when human intellect and doctrines of demons collide we are given the ingredients for a recipe of DARKNESS, and you can be assured that IN CHRIST is nowhere to be found!!

Ephesians 1:7
IN HIM we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace

Colossians 1:14
IN WHOM we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is IN CHRIST, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

 

[Lazarus Short]

Murmur who dares!

Well, starlings dare and when they do, it is the most incredible sight! Actually, it is called a 'murmuration'.

A group of crows is called a "murder."

 

[Lazarus Short]

First of all, we can tell the world God loves them because He does. He offers everyone the free gift of life with no strings attached. This eternal life is offered to all because Christ died for the sins of the world. Like I said before, God is just, there will be no innocence in hell. The Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin, righteousness, and judgement, of sin because they do not believe in Him. He is relentless in this conviction so they are without excuse. I know all the excuses because I once used them myself before I FINALLY acknowledged them at His feet. I wanted to hold on to my sin, and that is what I did. Sad, I know, but most will continue embrace these same excuses to why they reject Christ, but it's really their pride and love for their sin that stops them from reaching for the hand of FORGIVENESS... The Lord Jesus Christ. God will not be mocked, if they don't want to give up their sin they will not choose the one who died for those sins. Those who defend UR will often present these people as totally "innocent", like the Holy Spirit isn't convicting them constantly of their sin, that somehow God is throwing "innocence" in hell. NO, the only way to end up in hell is by choosing your sin over the one WHO DIED FOR THOSE SINS. And like I said before... this forgiveness is only IN CHRIST, not outside of Christ. There is no "sin free zone" outside of Christ. Only IN CHRIST do we have redemption through His blood the forgiveness of sins.

Don’t be deceived, there are only two standings before God, therefore only TWO REALMS: Saved from sin or unsaved, redeemed or unredeemed, justified or unjustified, lost or found, darkness or light, chains or freedom, death or life, Old Covenant or New Covenant, law or grace, unwashed or washed, apart from Christ or in Christ, kingdom of darkness or Kingdom of the Son. There is no third, fourth, or fifth realm or standing before God. But when human intellect and doctrines of demons collide we are given the ingredients for a recipe of DARKNESS, and you can be assured that IN CHRIST is nowhere to be found!!

Ephesians 1:7
IN HIM we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace

Colossians 1:14
IN WHOM we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is IN CHRIST, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

You dance around my questions as masterfully as Jeff. Did I say or imply that the wicked and unrepentant get a free pass? No, I did not. They will suffer, but ultimately be saved. It is the Will of God.

 

[FineLinen]

IN HIM we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace

Dear Skidder: why do you persist in not completing the wonderful passage of Eph. 1 stopping at v.7?

Why?

“Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, To the praise of the glory of His grace , wherein He has made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace ; Wherein He has abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Having made known unto us the mystery of His will , according to His good pleasure which He has purposed in Himself. That in the dispensation of the fulness of times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in Him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of Him who works all things after the counsel of His own will .”

What does ta pante mean Skinner?

That is the word used regarding the dispensation of future times.

 

[martymonster]

Working all things after His counsel of His own will is letting everyone get what they deserve. People who obey Christ, everlasting life, and people who disobey Christ, everlasting contempt.

Daniel 12:2
Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will wake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.

What this verse is saying, is that those who are spiritually dead, will awaken from this state and never go back to the old carnal mindset. The old man will be despised and rejected forevermore.


Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

 

[Skidder]

Dear Skidder: why do you persist in not completing the wonderful passage of Eph. 1 stopping at v.7?

Why?

“Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, To the praise of the glory of His grace , wherein He has made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace ; Wherein He has abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Having made known unto us the mystery of His will , according to His good pleasure which He has purposed in Himself. That in the dispensation of the fulness of times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in Him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of Him who works all things after the counsel of His own will .”

Because you don't understand what IN CHRIST means. You act like redemption through his blood the forgiveness of sins is outside of Christ. I can assure you, like I've told you SEVERAL times, if a person is not IN CHRIST they do not have redemption through His blood the forgiveness of sins. It is incredibly bizarre to me that you keep tripping over the meaning of IN CHRIST. Why not try counting how many times IN CHRIST, IN HIM, appears in Philippians and Ephesians, maybe it will key something? At least I hope it will?

 

[FineLinen]

Because you don't understand what IN CHRIST means. You act like redemption through his blood the forgiveness of sins is outside of Christ. I can assure you, like I've told you SEVERAL times, if a person is not IN CHRIST they do not have redemption through His blood the forgiveness of sins. It is incredibly bizarre to me that you keep tripping over the meaning of IN CHRIST. Why not try counting how many times IN CHRIST, IN HIM, appears in Philippians and Ephesians, maybe it will key something? At least I hope it will?

Dear Skidder: I know exactly what union with the Saviour Lesous means. The word in koine is EN. The exact EN is what is transpiring in Phil 2, when every last dimension of creation will sing in harmonious vibrations of worship. Every last one!

For me, the journey into Him began over 62 years ago before I could spell perfunctory genuflections.

 

[mmksparbud]

Mal 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
Mal 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

 

[Der Alte]

You are still evading my question: If Death is destroyed or defeated, is anyone still dead? Please answer.
BTW, I see "perish" as something occuring in the here-and-now world. In the world to come, death is destroyed, and all are made alive, AS WRITTEN.

Wrong! As misquoted out-of-context. This passage is one continuous narrative there is no honest way to make it say that a later verse happens before an earlier verse.

Revelation 21:4-8
(4) And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Rev 21:5
(5) And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Rev 21:7-8
(7) He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
(8) But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.​

Vs. 4 "there shall be no more death" This says nothing about all the dead being saved.
Vs. 5 "I make all things new."
Although vs. 4 says no more death, in vs. 8, eight groups of people are thrown into the lake of fire which is [still] the second death.

 

[martymonster]

Mal 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
Mal 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

Isa 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
Isa 33:15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

TODAY is the day, IF you hear HIS VOICE< ,

Hebrews 3:15 As it has been said: "Today, if you hear His ...
Hebrews 3:15 As it has been said: "Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts, as you did in the rebellion."
While it is said, Today if you will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.....

Hebrews 3:10-19 New International Version (NIV)
10 That is why I was angry with that generation;
I said, ‘Their hearts are always going astray,
and they have not known my ways.’
11 So I declared on oath in my anger,
‘They shall never enter my rest.’ ”a]">[a]

12 See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. 14 We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end. 15 As has just been said:

“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion.”b]">[b]

16 Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? 17 And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies perished in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed? 19 So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.

Hebrews 4:11 New International Version (NIV)
11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.

 

[Skidder]

Dear Skidder: I know exactly what union with the Saviour Lesous means. The word in koine is EN. The exact EN is what is transpiring in Phil 2, when every last dimension of creation will sing in harmonious vibrations of worship. Every last one!

For me, the journey into Him began over 62 years ago before I could spell perfunctory genuflections.

Then why do you think there is forgiveness of sins outside of Christ? If a person is not IN CHRIST they do not have redemption through His blood the forgiveness of sins. There is no pre-wash cycle with the blood of Christ. A person is either washed in His blood or they will DIE IN THEIR SINS. And dying in one's sins only leads to God's wrath. Like I said earlier... Don’t be deceived, there are only two standings before God, therefore only TWO REALMS: Saved from sin or unsaved, redeemed or unredeemed, justified or unjustified, lost or found, darkness or light, chains or freedom, death or life, Old Covenant or New Covenant, law or grace, unwashed or washed, apart from Christ or in Christ, kingdom of darkness or Kingdom of the Son. There is no third, fourth, or fifth realm or standing before God. But when human intellect and doctrines of demons collide we are given the ingredients for a recipe of DARKNESS, and you can be assured that IN CHRIST is nowhere to be found!!

So are you telling me that a person who rejects Christ is washed in the blood?