BEWARE OF UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Note the one true foundation that leads to eternal life, et al...

People become jittery when their foundations shift. Best to follow what Jesus said that it is the Father that speaks truth, not the theories or doctrines of man. It is the rock He built His church on.

Like everything in this world there are two opposing forces. Christianity as a result has been built upon two different foundations.

Jesus is one.

u.r. i.e. quicksand is another.

 

[Lazarus Short]

Seek the truth,
which does not ever support u.r.

As I have said, I sought the Truth in the KJV for two years,and discarded Hell and damnation as false and aberrant. I still use the KJV to demonstrate that you can find the Truth even there, but for reading I prefer a version without Hell and damnation. UR may and does clash with church doctrines, but it clashes far less with the data, which is the Biblical text (properly translated) - far less than damnationism or annihilationism. It is best to get away from Bible versions translated by theologians, for they will put the cart before the horse - first an honest translation and only then, the theology.

 

[martymonster]

Dear Monster man: Knock it off!

"For I will not contend forever, Nor will I always be angry; For the spirit would fail before Me, And the souls which I have made."

Yeah, I was just kidding. LOL!

 

[Lazarus Short]

Again, this is very clearly stated in the Bible.

Look down, at the quicksand. There it is! A foundation not built on rock. (the so-called 'foundation' of the heresy/false gospel of u.r. )

Your Bible is clear that sand is not a foundation, and your response to my question put to BNR32FAN is not an answer at all, just an insult. To me, your position is built on sand.

When do I get an answer to my anathema question?

 

[martymonster]

BTW, why exactly is UR dangerous? How does it encourage people to sin?
Someone who is a christian because he wants to follow Christ, is surely a lot more noble than someone who only "follows" Christ, for reasons of fire insurance. I have been a christian for a long time, and I have never heard a christian who believes in UR, encourage someone to sin.

 

[Skidder]

John 15:1-10 and Romans 11:17-23 say otherwise. Eternal security is a reformed doctrine that began in the 16th century. Another indication in the scriptures would be 2 Timothy 2:12 where Paul says if we deny Him He will deny us. Surely you would agree that Paul was undoubtedly a devoted servant of Christ when he wrote this and yet he includes even himself as being capable of denying Christ resulting in Christ denying him. The scriptures mention people “falling away” at least 20 times. In my opinion John 15 holds the most conclusive evidence.

Eternal life is in the bible and very clear. If this life could be lost it would not be called "eternal". It would be called something like "conditional life" not ETERNAL. It really is that simple. Again, tell me how a person can be "uncrucified with Christ". What does that look like once they have already died WITH Christ? Does that mean Christ has to pass through the gospel backwards and be uncrucified? This is about the FINISHED WORK, not the UNFINISHED. What you are doing is proclaiming that your co-death with Christ is not finished.

 

[FineLinen]

BTW, why exactly is UR dangerous? How does it encourage people to sin?
Someone who is a christian because he wants to follow Christ, is surely a lot more noble than someone who only "follows" Christ, for reasons of fire insurance. I have been a christian for a long time, and I have never heard a christian who believes in UR, encourage someone to sin.

Dear Monster Man: The entire idea of One who can ultimately bring every last rotten sinner home to Himself is just obnoxious. We good guys who have made excellent choices & worked so tirelessly on His behalf & paid terrible costs to be His disciple will not stand for such folly.

NOT by any works we have done but according to His mercy

 

[Der Alte]

As I have said, I sought the Truth in the KJV for two years,and discarded Hell and damnation as false and aberrant. I still use the KJV to demonstrate that you can find the Truth even there, but for reading I prefer a version without Hell and damnation. UR may and does clash with church doctrines, but it clashes far less with the data, which is the Biblical text (properly translated) - far less than damnationism or annihilationism. It is best to get away from Bible versions translated by theologians, for they will put the cart before the horse - first an honest translation and only then, the theology.

Can you provide any credible, verifiable, historical, lexical, historical etc. evidence that any part of the KJV, or any other standard, version is not properly translated?

 

[Lazarus Short]

Can you provide any credible, verifiable, historical, lexical, historical etc. evidence that any part of the KJV, or any other standard, version is not properly translated?

Sure - I'll get back to you.

 

[Skidder]

BTW, why exactly is UR dangerous? How does it encourage people to sin?
Someone who is a christian because he wants to follow Christ, is surely a lot more noble than someone who only "follows" Christ, for reasons of fire insurance. I have been a christian for a long time, and I have never heard a christian who believes in UR, encourage someone to sin.

It's dangerous because it's a false gospel. And the bible says there is only one Gospel. UR proclaims that everyone has had their sins forgiven apart from faith in Christ, but the bible clearly states that everyone who rejects Christ will die in their sins. And everyone who dies in their sins has the WRATH of God on them. It also presents a false hell, because it teaches that people are saved from their sins when they are not.

 

[martymonster]

Dear Monster Man: The entire idea of One who can ultimately bring every last rotten sinner home to Himself is just obnoxious. We good guys who have made excellent choices & worked so tirelessly on His behalf & paid terrible costs to be His disciple will not stand for such folly.

NOT by any works we have done but according to His mercy

Yes! I'm so glad I was born in a part of the world where I was free to use my high intelligence to make the right choice in a wise and timely manner, without the pressures of persecution to worry about. I'm sure if I had been born in a Muslim or Buddhist country though, that I would have been smart enough to make the right choice to follow Christ. LOL!

People really don't stop to think about the implications of what they're saying actually are, do they.

 

[martymonster]

It's dangerous because it's a false gospel. And the bible says there is only one Gospel. UR proclaims that everyone has had their sins forgiven apart from faith in Christ, but the bible clearly states that everyone who rejects Christ will die in their sins. And everyone who dies in their sins has the WRATH of God on them. It also presents a false hell, because it teaches that people are saved from their sins when they are not.

There is only one gospel, and the "gospel" where most of humanity are lost and tormented without end, sure ain't it!

 

[martymonster]

Question of Hellfire christians, who insist that the Lake of fire is literal....

How many hands, feet and eyes do you have?

 

[Der Alte]

Question of Hellfire christians, who insist that the Lake of fire is literal....
How many hands, feet and eyes do you have?

What is your point? What does this question and/or answer have to do with this topic? Where is the scripture that says "God's mercy does not expire when you do?" Can you show us where God, Himself, or Jesus, Himself, says that all mankind will be saved/reconciled after death even if they are living an unrighteous, unrepentant life when they die?

 

[FineLinen]

It's dangerous because it's a false gospel. And the bible says there is only one Gospel. UR proclaims that everyone has had their sins forgiven apart from faith in Christ, but the bible clearly states that everyone who rejects Christ will die in their sins. And everyone who dies in their sins has the WRATH of God on them. It also presents a false hell, because it teaches that people are saved from their sins when they are not.

Dear Skidder: Where oh where did you ever come up with such a silly idea? Are you aware of Sir Isaac Watts? Yup, the author of over 750 Hymns of the Christian faith, one of which we shall be singing during this festive season (Joy To The World). Are you remotely conceiving of individuals of this calibre declaring "another Gospel? How about George MacDonald or dozens and dozens of others of like passion? My friend, wake up, stir yourself and show us some of these ones in bed with sin acclaiming such futility. Please please show us!

I hate lists almost as much as the word "clearly". So do not think for a nano-second the following is complete. I personally can add another 20 to the list at your request.

>Believers and Supporters of Christian Universalism

The Restitution of All Things another Gospel?

 

[FineLinen]

 

[zoidar]

Here! Here! God will pour out his wrath on sinners, and as it says, He is angry forever!

There is a seriousness in scripture that shouldn't be ignored. People are saved because of that seriousness, so it has to be there. Holding to U. R. does more damage to the Church than we know at first, we have to look deeper.

There is also a big difference hoping that everyone will be saved, than holding it as doctrine. Hoping is good, holding to untruth isn't.

 

[martymonster]

There is a seriousness in scripture that shouldn't be ignored. People are saved because of that seriousness, so it has to be there. Holding to U. R. does more damage to the Church than we know at first, we have to look deeper.

There is also a big difference hoping that everyone will be saved, than holding it as doctrine. Hoping is good, holding to untruth isn't.

That kind of depends on your definition of UR. Even if UR was unscriptural, I doubt it could do more violence to the scriptures, that haven't already been done by the Church as a whole.

 

[zoidar]

That kind of depends on your definition of UR. Even if UR was unscriptural, I doubt it could do more violence to the scriptures, that haven't already been done by the Church as a whole.

Maybe, how do you evangelize "knowing" everyone will be saved?

 

[FineLinen]

Maybe, how do you evangelize "knowing" everyone will be saved?

Dear Zoidar: Greetings again. Every follower of the Lord Jesus Christ is a letter to be read of all men. It is not just an epistle of words but His reach to every individual coming into contact with us. Remember this, the working of the Lord is in stages of past present and future. Those who are marked out for eternal life now, come now, the rest in the fulness of times.

God IS the Saviour of ALL mankind, especially them that believe/trust in Him.