BEWARE OF UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION

[Der Alte]

How do you square Damnationism with "UNCONDITIONAL LOVE AND MERCY"?
There is no "Grace and Peace" in Damnationism.
Unless you think you can really enjoy heavenly bliss knowing that below you countless billions are suffering eternal conscious torment with no hope of escape.

I can't find the phrase "unconditional, love and mercy" in my Bible.
How many people were around really enjoying heavenly bliss knowing that there were countless millions being destroyed during the flood and in Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities where God told the Israelites to kill every living thing, which included old, young, men, women, children, infants?

 

[FineLinen]

It is not pointless! It does away with all sin--once and for all. And God is justice---they will be punished "according to their works." It is most definitely not for no apparent reason! During the 1000 years everyone will learn why those wicked are lost. Everyone will acknowledge the justice of God---everyone---the sinner, too, will see the justice of his punishment.
Rom_14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
They will be exterminated mercifully, they will not be made sport of. All sinners will be ashes, along with Satan and his angels---there will be no more sin and the new earth will be made new. No more tears, no more sorrow, no more pain. What will remain of sin are the scars that Jesus carries---and it is those scars, and the love seen in them by His sacrifice, that sin will never rise again. What God does, He does out of love, not fear. He needs no eternal burning hell to keep the saved from sin---His love, through His scars, will do that.

Dear Lady: There is nowhere in Scripture that says God is justice. Our God is indeed just, but it is not His essence. God is Love/Spirit/Light/Reconciliation/Saviour out of which His glorious justice flows in perfect rectitude.

Justice -George MacDonald

Unspoken Sermons by George MacDonald: Justice

 

[Hillsage]

How can God be omniscient, sovereign, yet not everyone will be saved? It is a philosophical question.

Slippery ground for me who rests in it being an "after Christ" question.

COL 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Some people solve it by saying God chose some people He wanted saved.

Hence, we have the Calvinists quoting all scriptures which support that 1/2 truth indoctrinated POV.

Others like me solve it by saying God wants everyone to be saved but not all are, because by free will people are resisting the Holy Spirit. There are other options as well.

Being spirit saved....or 'born again' is not a 'free will' salvation. You are 'born' of your Father's free will not yours. He who Christ has set FREE has free will. But even then, what do Christians choose? Is it to sin?

JOH 1:12 But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God; 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
So whose will is it in this verse above? The will of you/man, or the will of GOD?

And where do you think you GOT the supposed FREE WILL to believe?

PHI 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

I don't see the teaching of universialism in the Bible. We have to ask ourselves, do we see it because we so desperately want it to be true, or because the scripture actually teaches it?

Having been in the shoes of believing 'like I was indoctrinated to see/believe from the beginning', I'm more inclined to say you also only have eyes to see/believe what you too have been indoctrinated to see/believe. I see that often when I'm having people read a verse for a doctrinal discussion we're having on salvation, and ask them what they noticed. When I point out what God has showed me, they are astounded that they never 'saw' that before. Tell me what strikes you doctrinally, as you read the verse below.

KJV EPH 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

I lost my best friend a few years ago, who wasn't a Christian. Of course I want him to be saved, but honestly, I can't know. I'm leaving it to God. I know God will judge him justly.

Of course you 'want him to be saved'. But it doesn't matter what you 'want' it matters WHY you want that.

Christ has laid a mission on me, and that is to proclaim the gospel, so that as many as possible will know Christ and be saved.[/QUOTE]
Yes he has. And that also shows many that they really don't understand where we're coming from. When our church's founding pastor found out I believed in Ultimate Reconciliation/Christian Universalism he made me tell him it was true in a 'meeting' in his office. When I share with him it was true, he was baffled. And, he said; "How can you believe that? You've brought more people into this church than 'anyone else I know of." I told him; "You don't understand why, because you don't understand UR/UNI.

 

[mmksparbud]

- How can you confess Jesus as Lord without the Holy Spirit? (1 Corinthians 12:3)
- How can you confess Jesus as Lord without then being saved? (Romans 10:9)
- The context of the scripture you quoted says the reason Christ died and returned was to be the Lord of both the dead and the living. (Romans 14:9)

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says,
“Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. ​

This is the last day of evil---the Holy Sirit is no longer working on anyone, the Saved are with God, the wicked are not responding to the Holy Spirit---they are responding to God who stands before them in all His heavenly glory with all the saved and all the angels and all creation looking on!! They can do nothing else but concede defeat and acknowledge that God is Supreme. The Holy Spirit works only on the lost humans, who have a chance at responding to Him. The wicked have all driven away the Holy Spirit from them---He can do nothing for them---that is the unforgiveable sin---they drove away their salvation and now they stand before God's unveiled, unconcealed majesty---they can no nothing else but bow down in acknowledgement of His justice. What else can they do? They have no intercessor, no friend in this court---they stand guilty as charged. There is no court of appeals, no higher court--This is the real, true Supreme Court. Nothing else they can do or say. They stand in front of the universe and have nowhere to run, nowhere to hide----it is over.

 

[GraceBro]

So your saying the whole world is IN CHRIST apart from faith? I think you need to read the part that says IN CHRIST again, and then find out who is IN CHRIST.

No, I'm saying that "in Christ" God forgave the world.

 

[GraceBro]

You need to read the verse right before, verse 17.... Therefore, if anyone is IN CHRIST, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 18 Now all things are of God, who has RECONCILED US to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has GIVEN US the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not"imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

If you interpret the verse the way you are saying, that means you are proclaiming everyone is IN CHRIST. A direct contradiction to verse 17 that says those who are in Christ are new Creation, and the old has passed away. Is that what you are saying? Everyone is in Christ apart from faith?

You're making the assumption that forgiveness is salvation. Jesus dying on the cross didn't save anybody. Salvation is the restoration of the life of God. Forgiveness of sin is necessary for salvation but is not salvation itself. The world is forgiven, but they are not alive to God until they are "in Christ;" accepting Jesus Christ as their savior. In Christ in verse 17 is how you become a new creation. In Christ in verse 19 is Who God reconciled the world through.

 

[FineLinen]

This is the last day of evil---the Holy Sirit is no longer working on anyone, the Saved are with God, the wicked are not responding to the Holy Spirit---they are responding to God who stands before them in all His heavenly glory with all the saved and all the angels and all creation looking on!! They can do nothing else but concede defeat and acknowledge that God is Supreme.

Dear Lady: Where oh where are you learning such folly?

The worship, yes worship, is IN/EN the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ, not in perfunctory genuflections "at" the sound of His Name.

"That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow (ινα εν τωι ονοματι Ιησου παν γονυ καμπσηι — hina en tōi onomati Iēsou pan gonu kampsēi). First aorist active subjunctive of καμπτω — kamptō old verb, to bend, to bow, in purpose clause with ινα — hina Not perfunctory genuflections whenever the name of Jesus is mentioned, but universal acknowledgment of the majesty and power of Jesus who carries his human name and nature to heaven. This universal homage to Jesus is seen in Romans 8:22; Ephesians 1:20-22 and in particular Revelation 5:13.

Under the earth (καταχτονιων — katachthoniōn). Homeric adjective for departed souls, subterranean, simply the dead. Here only in the N.T."

Overview - Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament

Every knee, every tongue, every dimension of heaven, earth & the underworld in harmonious worship

 

[mmksparbud]

Dear Lady: There is nowhere in Scripture that says God is justice. Our God is indeed just, but it is not His essence. God is Love/Spirit/Light/Reconciliation/Saviour out of which His glorious justice flows in perfect rectitude.

Justice -George MacDonald

Unspoken Sermons by George MacDonald: Justice

You really would do better getting to know the bible and quoting it rather than all these men's opinions. They will not save you. Get to know your bible---get to know your God.

Deu_32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
2Sa_23:3 The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spake to me, He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God.
Job_4:17 Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Isa_45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
Rev_15:3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.
Psa_89:14 Justice and judgment are the habitation of thy throne: mercy and truth shall go before thy face.
Jer_23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
Jer_31:23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; As yet they shall use this speech in the land of Judah and in the cities thereof, when I shall bring again their captivity; The LORD bless thee, O habitation of justice, and mountain of holiness.

 

[mmksparbud]

Dear Lady: Where oh where are you learning such folly?

The worship, yes worship, is IN/EN the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ, not in perfunctory genuflections "at" the sound of His Name.

Overview - Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament

Every knee, every tongue, every dimension of heaven, earth & the underworld in harmonious worship

From the Holy word of God---not from the foolish opinions of the men you keep quoting who know nothing.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You really would do better getting to know the bible and quoting it rather than all these men's opinions. They will not save you. Get to know your bible---get to know your God.

Well, one good thing, the men / sources he quotes have long ago been proven poor sources - false gospel and all or other false teachings.... thus revealing the quicksand the false gospel is built upon....

 

[Lazarus Short]

Well, one good thing, the men / sources he quotes have long ago been proven poor sources - false gospel and all or other false teachings.... thus revealing the quicksand the false gospel is built upon....

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...l-reconciliation.8138525/reply?quote=74493042

"Proven poor sources"? Proven by whom? Proven when? Proven where? Your sources?

Please do better than "Two legs good, four legs baaaaaaaaaad."

 

[Saint Steven]

I can't find the phrase "unconditional, love and mercy" in my Bible.

You'll have to ask the OP. I was quoting.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The posters on this thread using sources teaching a false gospel, show by their use that they are unreliable, untrustworthy sources. This is further revealed when researching any and all of them on the so-called 'list'....

Since the teachings (fruit) coming off that tree is bad (and very bad) , the tree and the roots and the leaves and the seeds that started it and the seeds that come from it are also bad.

Researching to prove all that is 'good' if someone takes care not to be deceived...
"little children, guard yourselves and keep yourselves from idols".

As noted earlier in one thread , if someone just gives the enemy a foot in the door, just agrees to let 'a little' bit of error slip in, he comes in with many others and takes over, using the deception, the motives, the feelings, the emotions and the tickled ears and the false teachings to get control of the subject/victim? ....

 

[Lazarus Short]

The posters on this thread using sources teaching a false gospel, show by their use that they are unreliable, untrustworthy sources. This is further revealed when researching any and all of them on the so-called 'list'....

Since the teachings (fruit) coming off that tree is bad (and very bad) , the tree and the roots and the leaves and the seeds that started it and the seeds that come from it are also bad.

Researching to prove all that is 'good' if someone takes care not to be deceived...
"little children, guard yourselves and keep yourselves from idols".

As noted earlier in one thread , if someone just gives the enemy a foot in the door, just agrees to let 'a little' bit of error slip in, he comes in with many others and takes over, using the deception, the motives, the feelings, the emotions and the tickled ears and the false teachings to get control of the subject/victim? ....

So believing in a God who saves all the end in bad...

...and believing in a God who tosses most of humanity into Hell is good?

Is that what you are saying, Jeff?

Be careful not to call good bad and bad good.

Given the tenacity with which damnationists cling to their Hell myth, I think it is an idol.

 

[Saint Steven]

This is the last day of evil---the Holy Sirit is no longer working on anyone, the Saved are with God, the wicked are not responding to the Holy Spirit---they are responding to God who stands before them in all His heavenly glory with all the saved and all the angels and all creation looking on!! They can do nothing else but concede defeat and acknowledge that God is Supreme. The Holy Spirit works only on the lost humans, who have a chance at responding to Him. The wicked have all driven away the Holy Spirit from them---He can do nothing for them---that is the unforgiveable sin---they drove away their salvation and now they stand before God's unveiled, unconcealed majesty---they can no nothing else but bow down in acknowledgement of His justice. What else can they do? They have no intercessor, no friend in this court---they stand guilty as charged. There is no court of appeals, no higher court--This is the real, true Supreme Court. Nothing else they can do or say. They stand in front of the universe and have nowhere to run, nowhere to hide----it is over.

Houston, we have a problem...
The Greek word used for acknowledge in Phil.2:10-11 indicates an openly whole-hearted confession of Christ as Lord without reservation. Not the forced confession the Damnationists and Annihilations claim.

What a horrible thing to charge God with. A forced confession? Really? Like some sick sadist getting the satisfaction they want before they exterminate you? It's just sick.

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The term damnationists is a derogatory term used by some posters against those of us who speak and post the truth in line with all Scripture as God Reveals it.
He takes note of it each time, as each word will be judged that people speak, when He chooses to act, He will act.

So believing in a God who saves all the end in bad...

You have said so.

...and believing in a God who tosses most of humanity into Hell is good?

They choose who they follow while alive - the false teaching of u.r. leads to destruction,
the truth leads to life everlasting.

God grants by His Grace a chance to live. Take it and trust God. Stop fooling around with the evil teachings opposed to Him.

 

[Lazarus Short]

Total rubbish! And you should know it the many times I have provided the evidence in threads in which you participate. No matter how many times it gets repeated over the internet that does not make it true.

Merely saying "Total rubbish!" makes nothing false.

 

[GTW27]

Well done Op. You have entered the hornets nest, and yet, have no stings. How is this possible? I love it when a man of God enters the room and exposes the foolishness of man. Look again, man of God(my brother) look again at The Blood, and perhaps you will see another Passover for those that are in Christ Jesus and under The Blood. When the decree is decreed, what happens to them. Be encouraged!

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Merely saying "Total rubbish!" makes nothing false.

Anything he says or I say or you say or anyone says CANNOT EVER MAKE U.R. even faintly okay - it is a false gospel , evil and accursed, according to God's Word, and
no matter what anyone on earth says today, or ever.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Dear Skidder: The Lord Jesus Christ is indeed the at one ment! He is the at one ment for our sins AND for the sins of the WHOLE world.

Many= many: polus = polus

Adam1 = many "made sinners">>>Last Adam = many "made righteous"

I shouldn’t even have to explain that many does not mean all.

“For as through the one man's disobedience the many (polýs G4183)
were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many (polýs G4183) will be made righteous.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5:19‬ ‭NASB‬‬

“Now when He was in Jerusalem at the Passover, during the feast, many (polýs G4183) believed in His name, observing His signs which He was doing.”
‭‭John‬ ‭2:23‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Did everyone at the Passover feast believe in His name?

“The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God." Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law, 'I SAID, YOU ARE GODS '? If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'? If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father." Therefore they were seeking again to seize Him, and He eluded their grasp. And He went away again beyond the Jordan to the place where John was first baptizing, and He was staying there. Many (polýs G4183) came to Him and were saying, "While John performed no sign, yet everything John said about this man was true." Many (polýs G4183) believed in Him there.”
‭‭John‬ ‭10:31-42‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Did the men seeking to seize Jesus and stone Him believe?